# New Eden Industry Strike! **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 3, 2020, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636 "2020-09-03T11:18:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/61 "2020-09-03T19:55:20Z")
It’s gonna fail regardless, because most of us don’t care ---
**Author:** ![Cati\_Tasha-Murkon\_II](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cati_tasha-murkon_ii/32/231973_2.png) [@Cati\_Tasha-Murkon\_II](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cati_Tasha-Murkon_II)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/62 "2020-09-03T19:57:11Z")
You don’t care so much that you have to post in this thread, I see… 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 7:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/63 "2020-09-03T19:58:33Z")
> [@Cati\_Tasha-Murkon\_II](#): > > The strike isn’t going to work because its dumb and doesnt appeal to the majority of industry players. ---
**Author:** ![Cati\_Tasha-Murkon\_II](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cati_tasha-murkon_ii/32/231973_2.png) [@Cati\_Tasha-Murkon\_II](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cati_Tasha-Murkon_II)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/64 "2020-09-03T19:59:30Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > its dumb and doesnt appeal to the majority of industry players. OH yes, you’ve heard from ALL industry players in EVE.. What are you, the Go-To person? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/65 "2020-09-03T20:01:00Z")
Are you five? There’s literaly no meat here, there’s a guy saying “Dont sell your stuff!” and you are acting like he’s a genius. How exactly is this going to work and where is the support other than you (blindly)? Two Industry people have already said its a white elephant. Where’s the support? ---
**Author:** ![Pix\_Severus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pix_severus/32/394032_2.png) [@Pix\_Severus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pix_Severus)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/66 "2020-09-03T20:01:30Z")
This isn’t the first time someone has attempted to rally the miners, to strike against a proposed injustuce. It failed miserably the last time, but why? The answer is quite simple, really. No one cares, and that includes the miners you are trying to defend. I kinda wish you would have an impact, as then it would be popcorn time, but you won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Cati\_Tasha-Murkon\_II](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cati_tasha-murkon_ii/32/231973_2.png) [@Cati\_Tasha-Murkon\_II](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cati_Tasha-Murkon_II)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 8:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/68 "2020-09-03T20:04:25Z")
> [@Pix\_Severus](#): > > I kinda wish you would have an impact, as then it would be popcorn time, but you won’t. What, NO popcorn ? You’re mean, lol. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 8:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/69 "2020-09-03T20:32:20Z")
Here’s the main issue with your proposal: your heart doesn’t seem to lie in the right place, or at least, you’re not being specific enough with your intent. **What is the ultimate goal here? Do you want to influence CCP specifically in order for them to implement changes that work in favor of industrialists at the expense of the fighters? Or are you aiming to influence the players themselves?** If it’s the former, then this movement can be interpreted as begging CCP for concessions that provide artificial protection from PvP because you, and the players you allege to represent, are unwilling to use the tools already available to you in-game for the same purpose. In this case, this movement is no different from the regular “carebear whine threads” we get on these forums. You’ll get some support from the teary-eyed carebears with victim complexes, and that’s about it. Additionally, I can assure you that most of the changes that CCP has implemented over the past fifteen or so years buffed player safety, and nerfed risk and avenues for PvP. In fact, I made an easily-verifiable list of these changes, if you want to see it. But if this movement is meant to target players _specifically_ as a means of in-game political and economic influence, it can be considered as emergent gameplay, and will see wide support, if not necessarily participation. This would be the kind of movement that I, a dedicated PvP player, could get behind. **So, what exactly is your end goal? What demands are you making, and from whom?** > [@Gregory\_Suliker](#): > > so the rules get changed to pinpoint those with money but who cannot defend themselves I addressed this before. If you have money, then you most definitely _can_ defend yourself. You just have to know how to do it. Money is power. > [@Gregory\_Suliker](#): > > They forget that we, the small indies and industry players, are the ones who create most of good stuff: ships they fly, modules they fit, ammo they use. Heck, their very substinence in null, ability to have a home, jump to clones and have their ■■■■ serviced is of our making. > … > Lets see how they keep buying their new shiny toys when none are put up on market and prices skyrocket. Lets see how they keep fighting when their ammo/nanite paste is depleted and none is sold anew. Lets see how they sit in their empty abandoned castles that run out of juice and new fuel is sparse and too expensive. You assume that the PvE-focused players are the _only_ ones capable of industry; this is _wrong_. From all of the people I’ve interacted with over many years in EVE, the grand majority of PvP-focused players had their own industrial alts. The reason we _don’t_ use them much is because industry is so saturated, that there’s little, if any, profit to be had in it. It simply makes more economic sense to do combat PvE of some sort, or gank, or extort players for income. But if production slumps to the point where industry becomes competitive, you can bet your ass that we’re going to engage in it again. **Industry will never go away, even if you do**. > [@Gregory\_Suliker](#): > > or, finally, take that long-awaited vacation you wanted for so long. I kno,w 1 week is not much, but its more than you eve had in Eve! That is _literally_ painful to read. Anyone who needs a “vacation” from EVE has serious mental problems. It’s perfectly alright to get burned out and take a break, but to treat EVE, a **video game** , like actual labor that needs _downtime_ is absolutely ridiculous. You know, I once encountered a high-sec carebear corporation that actually required its members to fill out and submit time sheets. _Yeah._ > [@Gregory\_Suliker](#): > > Besides, sensless pew-pew - everybody can do this around here. Heck, most newbs ggo straight to null, suckered by one or other recruiter announcement, never even learning whatever else they can do, spend bunch of years ignorant of anything except being a drone in someone’s army. This is objectively false. Most new players stay in high-sec, and in fact _never_ leave it during their entire EVE careers. Over three-quarters of the player base are exclusively-PvE players, and never proactively engage in PvP. This is to say that the group you’re talking about isn’t some kind of “oppressed minority.” > [@Gregory\_Suliker](#): > > But to mean anything here, or in real world, one has to have ability to stand up for himself. Which means taking some action when it matters and taking a stand, on or off-game. Players already have this ability. The majority of them choose _not_ to use it. If they did use it, you wouldn’t have made this thread to begin with. > [@Gregory\_Suliker](#): > > Too bad its the “asocial types” who primarily tend to be involved in production. > [@Gregory\_Suliker](#): > > But it, in fact, goes beyond that - its that its a particular type of person that is attracted to such activity. Eve industry is quite intricate and is a world of its own. It requires a certain mindset to do it successfully. And such people are way less likely to just go do some inconsequential brainless pew-pew, except as a minor distraction from what they consider their main occupation. What exactly are you basing this on? Is this some kind of veiled reference to autism? Do you think that every industrialist is Raymond Babbitt? Or do you seriously believe that it requires an advanced level of intellect to engage in EVE’s industry, which combat-oriented players are unable to do because of their sub-80 IQs? Such hubris and pretentiousness won’t make you many friends. > [@Gregory\_Suliker](#): > > Right now we are dealing with bunch of **self-centric asocial players** who mostly stay in highsec to avoid having to jump to some null overlords or with **“nice guys” pushover types who are ok with staying in null, retaining half or less of their potential profits** , because they don;t know better or **do not want to stand up for themselves** , while doing forced gunking or fleet action they do not exceptionally like. > [@Gregory\_Suliker](#): > > Gee, this so nicely illustrates my point above, about difficulty in organizing such lot of **selfish bastards** , which I mean in a positive sense, as this is the nature of producing bourgeois, a driving force behind our actions if you will Highlighted the important parts. **My question here is: why do you feel inclined to help those people?** Being “self-centric” or selfish isn’t a nice personality trait, and people like that don’t deserve someone crusading on their behalf. Likewise, a person who is “ok” with something, or doesn’t _want_ to do something, is operating according to their own volition, and doesn’t need you speaking on their behalf. > [@Gregory\_Suliker](#): > > But we are talking about standing up to protect out rights and dignity here. **Rights to what? What kind of dignity? You have to explain this.** * * * The most important issue is below: > [@Gregory\_Suliker](#): > > The small guy or a group that actually tried to be productive member of society, creating new value for the citizens of New Eden, unlike all those jarheaded pvp’r or gankers. And who gets the priority CCP treatment in this situation? You all know the answer. Industry does **not** create value in EVE. Industry exists _solely_ for the purpose of replacing losses. Unlike in real life, EVE doesn’t have a limitless ceiling for innovation and creation. You’re limited to creating a set variety of goods, and you can’t even innovate with regard to the production process by saving on raw materials or production costs beyond a certain point. In real life, we have something known as the [broken window fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window), which is a tangible threat to progress, but in EVE, the economy functions _only_ by virtue of the “broken window” needing to be replaced all the time, because there’s no demand for products with the _exception_ of needing to replace those that get destroyed. To help you in answering the following question, aside from what’s written above, I will provide some data. According to my sample analysis of zKill, something like 99.6% of **all** destruction in the game happens as an effect of PvP activities. Just a fraction of a single percentage point can be solely attributed to losses to NPCs. **So here’s an important question for you: how would you feel if all of the PvP players decided to go “on strike,” and stopped all of their PvP activities for some period of time? What kind of effect do you think that would have? Do you think it would be good or bad for the game?** * * * One more significant issue with this proposal: the free rider problem. How are you going to deal with it? Simply telling everyone “you should do this because it will benefit you in the long run” won’t be enough. How are you going to subjugate noncomplying parties? In real life, for example, unions can physically restrict access to factories and such. What about the people who will tell you that they support you, but secretly continue to produce and sell products? A major flaw with your proposal is that it will require all participants to either contribute, or give something up, materially. And yet, they already refuse to do this in order to alleviate the issues they’re facing today. If they’re not willing to pay for mercenaries/guards for their industrial activities, then why would they contribute financially to your effort, or give up their profits for your cause? ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/70 "2020-09-03T20:46:34Z")
The goal is to influence CCP by placing a moratorium on all highsec industry. All highsec industry must be brought to a halt. Once that is achieved (and maintained for some uncertain amount of time), the ganking can stop. Meanwhile, the ganking will be for the ultimate benefit of the “carebear whiners” that you seem to disparage. ---
**Author:** ![Cati\_Tasha-Murkon\_II](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cati_tasha-murkon_ii/32/231973_2.png) [@Cati\_Tasha-Murkon\_II](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cati_Tasha-Murkon_II)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/71 "2020-09-03T21:02:30Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > The goal is to influence CCP by placing a moratorium on all highsec industry And IF the market crashes, so much the better. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 9:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/72 "2020-09-03T21:04:05Z")
Even if you can buy an Epithal at Jita during the strike, you will die after your first jump. Strike! Strike! ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 9:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/73 "2020-09-03T21:19:47Z")
One more strike, and we’ll have to take you behind the barn… ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/74 "2020-09-03T21:21:37Z")
I’ll send you and Archer to the barn. Have fun rolling in the hay. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 9:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/75 "2020-09-03T21:22:49Z")
![ibDdMkf](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/a/3/a372475d65e5cde18f9d96b1c4e9d70914550eeb.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 9:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/76 "2020-09-03T21:24:32Z")
Every time we go, he always ignores me, and frolics with the animals instead. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/77 "2020-09-03T21:27:22Z")
He is hoping that you will join him. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/78 "2020-09-03T21:35:40Z")
What are the animals, and does he wear wellies? ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 9:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/79 "2020-09-03T21:38:04Z")
![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/1/4/14126d42a52ef38e58e4411d6039bd744cd0c3fc.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 9:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/80 "2020-09-03T21:39:25Z")
I’m wondering what the Americans amongst us think wellies are… ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 9:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/81 "2020-09-03T21:41:12Z")
Seems to be rubber boots or galoshes. And no, he doesn’t. He’s pretty much barefoot all the time. He’s a real redneck. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636.md?page=5)