# New Era for EVE, death of P2W and Rebirth of Skill **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 26, 2023, 9:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-era-for-eve-death-of-p2w-and-rebirth-of-skill/393258 "2023-01-26T09:30:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Applejacked\_Warlord](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/applejacked_warlord/32/351902_2.png) [@Applejacked\_Warlord](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Applejacked_Warlord)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 9:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-era-for-eve-death-of-p2w-and-rebirth-of-skill/393258/1 "2023-01-26T09:30:11Z")
I would like to propose the launch of a new experimental server that would be purely subscription based to participate, similar to an average MMO monetization setup, that would disable the acceleration of skills by using PLEX paid for with real currency. Skills would be gained gradually as you interacted with content that was relevant with those skill points. As you fired a certain weapon type, you would gain XP of that weapon type, as you mined a mineral, you would gain mining experience of that type. Encourage players to PLAY the game to get skills, not sit on their ass and WAIT or pay to skip to the front of the line. Keep all the other servers online and active, but please, give the players who are adamantly against P2W mechanics an opportunity to strive and struggle and grind, and be rewarded for their EFFORT IN GAME, not their Bank Balance IRL. Cheers everyone, here’s to hoping for a new Era and exponential new discovery and growth of the amazing game that is Eve Online. In a new and fresh methodology this game could absolutely dominate the MMO genre. Living on a prayer. o7 ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 10:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-era-for-eve-death-of-p2w-and-rebirth-of-skill/393258/2 "2023-01-26T10:00:28Z")
Your idea would still be “P2W.” Rich players who don’t have to work every day would have more time to spend on grinding out money and experience, while poor players who have to spend 10 hours a day on hammering nails or filing TPS reports would fall behind. Time is money, so the only way to have a _truly_ non-P2W system is to not have any time-gated progression at all. ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 10:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-era-for-eve-death-of-p2w-and-rebirth-of-skill/393258/3 "2023-01-26T10:10:47Z")
> [@Applejacked\_Warlord](#): > > Keep all the other servers online and active, but please, give the players who are adamantly against P2W mechanics an opportunity to strive and struggle and grind, and be rewarded for their EFFORT IN GAME, This is the most ridiculous assumption of all time. There is no one who enjoys grinding for their SP and progression. There is nothing at all fun, enjoyable or worthwhile in the grind to gain Caldari Frigate V or Caldari Carrier V by sitting or using these things exclusively for days and weeks to gain the levels. Not a single shred of positive experience comes from Grind for SP. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Letters](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/some_letters/32/351719_2.png) [@Some\_Letters](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Some_Letters)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 10:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-era-for-eve-death-of-p2w-and-rebirth-of-skill/393258/4 "2023-01-26T10:29:19Z")
> [@Applejacked\_Warlord](#): > > Skills would be gained gradually as you interacted with content that was relevant with those skill points. As you fired a certain weapon type, you would gain XP of that weapon type, as you mined a mineral, you would gain mining experience of that type It’s a good idea and other games have that system so it’s definitely possible but I seriously doubt it will be adopted for EVE. I’m tempted to say “not in a million years”. > [@Applejacked\_Warlord](#): > > Encourage players to PLAY the game to get skills, not sit on their ass and WAIT or pay to skip to the front of the line Unfortunately P2Advance is here to stay. It’s a sad time when games/entertainment are used to line the pockets of unscrupulous companies but it’s a trend that won’t be stopped because those who can stop it benefit from it. > [@Applejacked\_Warlord](#): > > a new experimental server ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/e/6/0/e6094a52689c726735939efc4cc28f883201720d.gif "Tyler Perry Good Luck GIF by Nickelodeon - Find & Share on GIPHY") ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 10:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-era-for-eve-death-of-p2w-and-rebirth-of-skill/393258/5 "2023-01-26T10:52:11Z")
> [@Applejacked\_Warlord](#): > > give the players who are adamantly against P2W mechanics an opportunity to strive and struggle and grind, and be rewarded for their EFFORT IN GAME OMG yes…the sheer _effort_ of sitting there watching Netflix while a mining laser does pew pew on a rock. ---
**Author:** ![Kuro\_Kanashimi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kuro_kanashimi/32/351894_2.png) [@Kuro\_Kanashimi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kuro_Kanashimi)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 10:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-era-for-eve-death-of-p2w-and-rebirth-of-skill/393258/6 "2023-01-26T10:54:26Z")
Except you can run your CC all you want, and still get blapped out the gate. EVE isn’t pay to win. You can now pay to speed it up. EVE is one of the last few MMOs out there where your printed skill sheet doesn’t always mean you are actually _skilled_ at the game. Like on paper yea you can fly a ship, but are you actually a good pilot? Do you have good game sense? Instincts honed by actual encounters? You can pay to hop in a golem day one, not know how to check local or what standings mean and undock in an SoE system to be welcomed by Hawk. The CC didn’t help you win there 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 10:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-era-for-eve-death-of-p2w-and-rebirth-of-skill/393258/7 "2023-01-26T10:58:09Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Rich players who don’t have to work every day Meh. One can have a battleship for the cost of a pint of beer. A round of beers, and one has an entire fleet. ---
**Author:** ![Kuro\_Kanashimi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kuro_kanashimi/32/351894_2.png) [@Kuro\_Kanashimi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kuro_Kanashimi)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 10:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-era-for-eve-death-of-p2w-and-rebirth-of-skill/393258/8 "2023-01-26T10:59:42Z")
Which merely just saved you time. I do not know why people labor under the false assumption that EVE is pay to win. You can swipe that CC, buy that fleet you spoke of and then jump into Az. That definitely isn’t winning 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 11:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-era-for-eve-death-of-p2w-and-rebirth-of-skill/393258/9 "2023-01-26T11:04:29Z")
Well the irony is that it is us ‘P2W’ PLEX-ers _who actually keep the game going_. I mean, when all those ‘hard working’ miners, etc, want to pay for their multiple accounts using PLEX…who do they think bought the PLEX into the game in the first place ? Nothing in Eve is genuinely free…the people who are paying are subsidising those who aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 11:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-era-for-eve-death-of-p2w-and-rebirth-of-skill/393258/10 "2023-01-26T11:13:26Z")
![JesusFckingChrist](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/a/3/3a3da9c010538528d081aa33bb88a038a4220c55.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Malkaviano\_Revenge](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malkaviano_revenge/32/351277_2.png) [@Malkaviano\_Revenge](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malkaviano_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-era-for-eve-death-of-p2w-and-rebirth-of-skill/393258/11 "2023-01-26T13:50:49Z")
I cannot do better than this. To the poster, not the right way to deal with whales. Whales are actually a good thing, they are bad, and they provide content. Sometimes they are hard to get, but this is not an excuse to hate them. And that is the only good thing I can say about your post. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-era-for-eve-death-of-p2w-and-rebirth-of-skill/393258/12 "2023-01-26T13:51:57Z")
> [@Kuro\_Kanashimi](#): > > I do not know why people labor under the false assumption that EVE is pay to win. > > You can swipe that CC, buy that fleet you spoke of and then jump into Az. This argument comes up a lot. I suppose then you don’t mind if CCP starts selling ships in packs? Hell, they can start selling premium ships and premium ammo too right? Because you still need skill to win? Also, can you name a single P2W game where you pay for a pack then you don’t have to do anything else to win? ---
**Author:** ![Namdor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/namdor/32/396179_2.png) [@Namdor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Namdor)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 1:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-era-for-eve-death-of-p2w-and-rebirth-of-skill/393258/13 "2023-01-26T13:54:56Z")
Sounds bad, no thanks. ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 3:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-era-for-eve-death-of-p2w-and-rebirth-of-skill/393258/14 "2023-01-26T15:25:30Z")
Yes, by all means, let’s split the player base with the addition of another server to the point there are only 5k players left on Tranquility… ---
**Author:** ![Inaishite\_Teikei](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/inaishite_teikei/32/383275_2.png) [@Inaishite\_Teikei](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Inaishite_Teikei)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-era-for-eve-death-of-p2w-and-rebirth-of-skill/393258/15 "2023-01-26T16:10:44Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > I suppose then you don’t mind if CCP starts selling ships in packs? Hell, they can start selling premium ships and premium ammo too right? Because you still need skill to win? I think you might be mixing up slightly different issues. As I understand, selling ships directly is bad because it affects the player economy and effectively puts a cap on the profitability of the sold ship types, possibly making them completely unviable to produce. Premium ships and ammo are bad because they give an advantage unobtainable in-game otherwise. This is not the case with the PLEX system. That being said, I’ve been thinking about this recently and I think there are cases in which EVE can actually be pay to win. We always bring up the whales who have no idea what they’re doing and end up murdered in terrible fit officer module battleships, but what happens when skill isn’t a factor? Say you have two alliances competing for sov territory, trying to evict each other out of their wormholes, fighting in FW or whatever. They have a similar number of pilots of similar skill level. However, Alliance A is composed of IT guys and trust fund babies with deep pockets, and Alliance B is composed mainly of working 9 to 5 poors. Alliance A has a huge material adantage and will inevitably outcompete Alliance B in a war of attrition with superior ability to replace ships and structures, an extra edge on implants and shiny modules etc. All else being equal, real life money will win them fights and Alliance B members don’t have more free time on hand to grind the isk to compensate, in fact it’s probably the opposite. I don’t know if World War Bee aka The Casino War really was funded with RMT money, but in theory such a scenario - a rich backer or group of backers bankrolling a war - is entirely viable. So yeah, EVE isn’t P2W… until it is. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 4:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-era-for-eve-death-of-p2w-and-rebirth-of-skill/393258/16 "2023-01-26T16:24:52Z")
> [@Inaishite\_Teikei](#): > > selling ships directly is bad because it affects the player economy Sadly, this is already the case. Ships out of thin air. Every set of career agents gives new players 9 free ships. 9 ships that players didn’t build. Now, multiply that by 1,000 new players per week/month, and that is 9,000 ships produced out of thin air. Taken to the extreme, if a new player were to do all 60 career agents, that is over 100 free ships that didn’t get built by players. If every new player did that, that would be 100,000 ships produced from nothing… ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 4:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-era-for-eve-death-of-p2w-and-rebirth-of-skill/393258/17 "2023-01-26T16:36:27Z")
> [@Inaishite\_Teikei](#): > > As I understand, selling ships directly is bad because it affects the player economy and effectively puts a cap on the profitability of the sold ship types, possibly making them completely unviable to produce. Premium ships and ammo are bad because they give an advantage unobtainable in-game otherwise. Sure, but it’s not like SP selling doesn’t also have an impact as it alters how much ISK people have to spend and crucially it means that people injecting SP can upskill into T2 much more quickly, collapsing the market for meta items. > [@Inaishite\_Teikei](#): > > That being said, I’ve been thinking about this recently and I think there are cases in which EVE can actually be pay to win. Any time you can pay for something that isn’t cosmetic, it’s pay to win. The problem is that some people try to take that “win” word literally, as if you need to pay and then win without having to actually do anything. But no matter the game you always have to do something to translate that purchase into a win. Like if you buy premium ammo in a game, you still have to actually hit targets with that ammo and do so more effectively that the people with normal ammo. > [@Inaishite\_Teikei](#): > > Alliance A has a huge material adantage and will inevitably outcompete Alliance B in a war of attrition with superior ability to replace ships and structures, an extra edge on implants and shiny modules etc. Yeah, this is the thing, just having ISK is enough to give an advantage as you can just pay people to do whatever you need them to do to achieve whatever strategic objective you have. Most of the casino RMT was selling ISK, rather than buying, but the issue with the casinos was that they obtained trillions and trillions of ISK from all the fees for players, and it demonstrated that just having ISK can give a significant advantage. Some rich player buying PLEX and selling it for ISK could do the same. ---
**Author:** ![Kuro\_Kanashimi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kuro_kanashimi/32/351894_2.png) [@Kuro\_Kanashimi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kuro_Kanashimi)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-era-for-eve-death-of-p2w-and-rebirth-of-skill/393258/18 "2023-01-26T17:31:31Z")
Again, the fundemental thing is people don’t really understand what P2W means. EVE isn’t pay to win. You can’t swipe your CC and automatically win a battle. I’d actually even almost say CCP counts on people not being as skilled in game sense. They make more money that way 😃 ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 5:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-era-for-eve-death-of-p2w-and-rebirth-of-skill/393258/19 "2023-01-26T17:33:43Z")
If you use your credit card to pay for 20 omega accounts and bought skill injectors to skill into an Orca and 19 Skiffs on day 1 what, exactly, did you win? ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2023, 5:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-era-for-eve-death-of-p2w-and-rebirth-of-skill/393258/20 "2023-01-26T17:40:50Z")
> [@Kuro\_Kanashimi](#): > > I’d actually even almost say CCP counts on people not being as skilled in game sense. They make more money that way 😃 I love whales, CODE loves whales, everyone loves whales. They keep the lights on, and die hilariously in the process… [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-era-for-eve-death-of-p2w-and-rebirth-of-skill/393258.md?page=2)