# New market update potential economy collapse **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 11, 2020, 9:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141 "2020-03-11T09:40:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Giddy\_McFee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/giddy_mcfee/32/375711_2.png) [@Giddy\_McFee](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Giddy_McFee)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 8:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141/64 "2020-03-12T08:46:07Z")
Didnt think you were having a go 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 8:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141/65 "2020-03-12T08:48:47Z")
Awesome 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![not\_the\_papa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/not_the_papa/32/453563_2.png) [@not\_the\_papa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/not_the_papa)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141/66 "2020-03-12T13:14:41Z")
I am still living, right. However, my mining alts lost their omega status, and I will not renew omega for my trading alts. Probably a good thing as I log into eve online much less than before and enjoy real life (not sure about that, hehe) ---
**Author:** ![Lara\_Agnon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lara_agnon/32/377122_2.png) [@Lara\_Agnon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lara_Agnon)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 1:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141/67 "2020-03-12T13:32:38Z")
I just shows how many people who had no reason to cry before now got hit ---
**Author:** ![Sheldon\_d\_Albion](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sheldon_d_albion/32/496108_2.png) [@Sheldon\_d\_Albion](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sheldon_d_Albion)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 1:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141/68 "2020-03-12T13:41:43Z")
Good example with an easy answer : You’ll wait till others put some additional SO hopping someday yours will be filled … After a while maybe 1-2 weeks , 1-2 months and stay behing every one You’ll have no choice but to undercut whatever the losses . And you won’t trade this product ever ( manufacture also) . With this relisting fee , you have no choice but to come from a strong position ( at least (expected SO amount)/(isk invested) \> 0.6 or gamble your order position . ---
**Author:** ![Scarlet\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scarlet_starfire/32/244125_2.png) [@Scarlet\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scarlet_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 10:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141/69 "2020-03-13T10:31:54Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > > > they remove an advantage that I had over more casual traders. > > **reduce** the advantage I have an advantage, it’s called time. Nothing stops me playing for 16 hours or more if I so wish. Maybe CCP should restrict the time players can play to 4 hours a day in the interest of making it fairer for everyone. It will never be completely fair that’s just the nature of an MMO. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 11:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141/70 "2020-03-13T11:10:14Z")
> [@Scarlet\_Starfire](#): > > It will never be completely fair that’s just the nature of an MMO. You should tell that to the other kulaks ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 11:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141/71 "2020-03-13T11:15:52Z")
What does isk & plex smell like? Does it smell like bad breath & sweat? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 11:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141/72 "2020-03-13T11:19:01Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Dont get me wrong, not having a go. I just noticed I already do what a lot of people have been talking about in other channels too, I just do it backwards lol Not really. I already explained that doing so is the only interesting activity for people who actually value their own time, so who consider that wasting 2h to gain 200M 1month earlier is a waste of time when they could just have enjoyed the game. Place your order at an interesting price, not a stupid -0.01 isk, and only build when you can place at an interesting price. If you can’t build anything, reduce your margin. It’s actually the other players who had it backward and lost a lot of money, and their own life time, with that stupid habit. They thought that they must sell when there is profit, ignoring that selling when there is profit means reducing the profit, so they must actively force their order by constant 0.01 isk in order to try to sell but not reduce the profit. Then I come and reduce the margin by 50% and they are screwed and send me mails. > [@Scarlet\_Starfire](#): > > I have an advantage, it’s called time. Nothing stops me playing for 16 hours or more if I so wish. Indeed, nothing stops you from playing 16hours if you wish. In the game, there are mechanisms to prevent you from having an advantage from playing that much : respawn time of ice belt and combat anoms, limited drop over time of deadspace, limited size of mining anoms and moon belts, … So CCP is actually doing what you call, since several years, just in a much more subtle way that what you call for. > [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](#): > > What does isk & plex smell like? Depends where you store them. I store them in Jita and a station nearby, they smell like tears and pain from the 0.01 bots. Soon they smell of rust … ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 11:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141/73 "2020-03-13T11:20:06Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Not really. Not really what part? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 11:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141/74 "2020-03-13T11:23:05Z")
edited. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > It’s actually the other players who had it backward ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141/75 "2020-03-13T11:25:44Z")
Ah gotcha. Pretty much. There seems to be mindsets, or “accepted ways of doing things” that mean people rule out what to me were really obvious options. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlet\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scarlet_starfire/32/244125_2.png) [@Scarlet\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scarlet_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 11:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141/76 "2020-03-13T11:36:12Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > > [@Scarlet\_Starfire](#): > > > > I have an advantage, it’s called time. Nothing stops me playing for 16 hours or more if I so wish. > > Indeed, nothing stops you from playing 16hours if you wish. > In the game, there are mechanisms to prevent you from having an advantage from playing that much : respawn time of ice belt and combat anoms, limited drop over time of deadspace, limited size of mining anoms and moon belts, … > > So CCP is actually doing what you call, since several years, just in a much more subtle way that what you call for. Time is useful, in the days I used to mine I would be one of the first out on the belts straight after dt. You could say that PLEX is supposed to even the odds with those that can play a lot and those that work a lot. It obviously aids those that work a lot if they do that. But I’ve also purchased loads of PLEX from CCP over the years. So it doesn’t really negate the time advantage. Plus there are those that can’t really afford to waste the money on PLEX as they have other commitments. You can make certain aspects fair like dailies as it doesn’t matter when you do them during the day. But an MMO can never be truly fair just like RL. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 11:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141/77 "2020-03-13T11:53:18Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > There seems to be mindsets, or “accepted ways of doing things” that mean people rule out what to me were really obvious options. I did like them, and then realize I was wasting my time. I only did low-cuts when I noticed people too active on a market I had orders (I have tools for that) and ■■■■■■ them up. You want to spend time ? Then waste more time. I drove their price down so that all the time they had spent on the market produced a negative profit. Of course I sacrificed some orders and, what’s more important, my time, but it was worth it teaching those bots the cost of their time. IMO that was the only PVP there was to be in the market. It’s more like people are too much into their activity to accept they are at loss. The sunken cost fallacy, where people don’t realize they are losing money because “I already paid for that, I can’t stop now”. Here it’s “I already learnt to do that, I got a lot of experience, I must keep doing that”. Since they are not in a mindset where they can accept to be wrong, then they are avoiding any logical presentation that could show they are wrong, instead going for convoluted model that makes no sense if you don’t assume they MUST be right. Denial is a scary ■■■■■. the 0.01 iskers were in a mix of cookie-clicker addiction and sunken cost fallacy, So it’s more healthy for the playerbase that CCP removed the 0.01iskers. The good thing for me, is that I know of this because I experienced it in a game when I was young. I was playing OGame, and got into the “lots of small benefit tasks”. So I made a program, that gets the exploration reports, deduce the profit gain from each target, makes two lists (one for probes and one for small attackers), and provide me each 2hours with the list of targets to attack. Every two hours during the night I woke up, and send my light transporters , or my probes if it was time to send probes. It was actually a lot more complex than that, but the thing is it was working since I was in the top 10 of my universe (I reached 3rd or so, met a lot of people whom I helped make wars, had moons on each planet, etc) But when it stopped (I was suspected of botting so banned 😛 ), I just had a realization, that what I was doing was bad, so when I got my account back (friends insisted that we had RL meetings and that I was just a very efficient dev) I gave it and spent more time doing other things. I just did not want to inflict that again to my other half, I jut thought that I was better than that. So I have the ability to realize what I did was bad (for me), but this come at the price of being cut. Hopefully 0.01iskers will be able to learn from that experience, the same way I did from OGame. ---
**Author:** ![Giddy\_McFee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/giddy_mcfee/32/375711_2.png) [@Giddy\_McFee](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Giddy_McFee)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 12:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141/78 "2020-03-13T12:00:55Z")
The 0.1isk game was annoying, i sometimes did it but mostly updated my orders once every 4 or 5 days, or waited if someone went silly and undercut by a lot. But with this new system, the costs are prohibitive to change the price, especially on more expensive items. So whilst you may not even answer this directly How do you find your “interesting” price? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 12:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141/79 "2020-03-13T12:05:09Z")
> [@Giddy\_McFee](#): > > So whilst you may not even answer this directly How do you find your “interesting” price? Indeed, if it’s something that requires to think about it there is no simple answer, and whats more there is no static algorithm to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlet\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scarlet_starfire/32/244125_2.png) [@Scarlet\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scarlet_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 12:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141/80 "2020-03-13T12:05:32Z")
> [@Giddy\_McFee](#): > > But with this new system, the costs are prohibitive to change the price, especially on more expensive items. So most likely traders won’t be trading as much as they will end up with a lot of open stagnant orders if the costs are truly prohibitive. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 12:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141/81 "2020-03-13T12:09:51Z")
They are not. Most of the cases I sell an order with less than 5 relists, which were already present in my margin as an “approximation security”. Very few actually had any relist, and some had 10 relists or so. Whats more prohibitive, is that if you place an order to like “good price”+100% (eg 3000 instead of 1500) and then someone cuts you to 1500 (and your profit is good on 1500) then the price of relisting it to 1500 is 1/4 of the price you lost from listing it at 3000 in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Giddy\_McFee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/giddy_mcfee/32/375711_2.png) [@Giddy\_McFee](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Giddy_McFee)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 12:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141/82 "2020-03-13T12:14:49Z")
IS that the old system or the current one? edit: ignore that, obviously the new ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix\_Britannian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/phoenix_britannian/32/377437_2.png) [@Phoenix\_Britannian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Phoenix_Britannian)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 12:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141/83 "2020-03-13T12:42:54Z")
> [@Scarlet\_Starfire](#): > > Maybe CCP should restrict the time players can play to 4 hours a day in the interest of making it fairer for everyone. It will never be completely fair that’s just the nature of an MMO. This is off topic, but, while that would never fly in the age of MMOs, you know that’s how things used to be done back in the days of BBS Door Games. One of the major inspirations for EVE, Tradewars 2002, did it by limiting the number of jumps per day, which meant that you could play anywhere from a few minutes to a couple hours depending on what the SysOp set the limit to. Of course, it was done less to limit advantage for people who have too much time, and more to limit the amount of time an individual user spent on the BBS, because the big limitation was the number of phone lines that the BBS had. Too many users being on for too long meant other users couldn’t get in. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-market-update-potential-economy-collapse/225141.md?page=5)