# New player, negative ISK balance. Why no notifcations? **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Created:** [November 11, 2023, 8:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217 "2023-11-11T08:37:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 8:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217/21 "2023-11-12T08:35:52Z")
And in a timing that is uncanny, there’ a whole other thread on where OP wants the popup to say “you’ll probably be destroyed” because _surely_ that specific text would have fixed their behavior: > [@Hi-Sec NPCs that aggress indiscriminately and offer no counterplay are toxic content](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hi-sec-npcs-that-aggress-indiscriminately-and-offer-no-counterplay-are-toxic-content/427315): > > EDIT: Since nobody is reading the full text, here’s the TL;DR: I recently [lost my freighter](https://zkillboard.com/kill/113000980/) on a hi-sec gate to NPCs that scrammed and popped me within seconds of uncloaking. It turns out they were Triglavians, not Drifters (I’ve been away from game for a long time, and am not up to date on the lingo). My overall point is that substantial losses such as the one incurred (5.6 billion ISK) should be the result of player choices, not random acts of NPC violence, expecially in secure space. Introdu… > [@Hi-Sec NPCs that aggress indiscriminately and offer no counterplay are toxic content](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hi-sec-npcs-that-aggress-indiscriminately-and-offer-no-counterplay-are-toxic-content/427315/24): > > No, I did not “know the danger”. I saw a popup, sure – as I’ve seen countless other times for countless other reasons, and I have literally never been aggressed by NPCs after seeing those popups. In hi-sec or low-sec. So a popup such as this does NOT communicate “IF YOU JUMP YOU WILL BE DESTROYED”, it communicates, “there may be certain risks in this system that do not exist in other systems.” It’s **VAGUE**. Do you honestly think I would risk 5.6 billion ISK if I “knew the danger”? Please. The core gampeplay loop of Eve Online for any mechanic anywhere is: 1. Research / Plan 2. Prepare 3. Execute 4. Fail 5. Learn 6. Go to step one These 2 threads are prime examples of people having to “learn the hard way” and failing in Step 4. However, rather than internalizing the lesson and learning in step 5, they blame anything about the game they can put their hands on. - Is there a popup? No? Well it’s the lack of a popup. - Oh, there a popup. Does it have the text that _I_ require? No? Well it’s because it’s not that text. - Oh, there’s a popup and it warns about consequences? Well then it’s just a _bad game_. Nowhere in this ego-defending line of thought the real lesson: - “Man it really _really_ sucks this happened to me. I should find friends that can educate me about contraband, do more research next time on what Triglavians are, and take it as a sign I need to learn and research more about these mechanics so it doesn’t happen again.” I get it sucks losing [5 billion](https://zkillboard.com/kill/113000980/) or being 21 M isk in the red. But don’t twist this sympathetic moment as an ugly excuse to evade taking personal responsibility. Malak says it nicely: > [@Hi-Sec NPCs that aggress indiscriminately and offer no counterplay are toxic content](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/hi-sec-npcs-that-aggress-indiscriminately-and-offer-no-counterplay-are-toxic-content/427315/99): > > When you can’t be bothered to read a warning message and want to change the system to warn you about dangers, you are placing the blame on the game for your own mistake. There is nothing wrong with being mistaken btw, but when you insist that a game changes due to your own mistake, it sounds very entitled. Just take it as a lesson to read warnings more. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 8:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217/22 "2023-11-12T08:42:03Z")
They even complain when there is a pop up: > **[Pop-up message just got me killed because it took over the screen. - EVE...](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/message/4628175)** > > EVE allows you to discover, explore and dominate an amazing science fiction universe while you fight, trade, form corporations and alliances with other players. 🙃 🤭 😏 ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217/23 "2023-11-12T12:40:30Z")
> [@Forger\_Severe](#): > > Thank you. This is the first helpful thing posted. The warning as posted here tells you something, but the underlying meaning is lost without additional context, specifically the penalty of losing ISK. That’s all I’d like to have amended for future recruits. “If you are caught a penalty of _Insert amount here_ will be leveraged”. The purpose of the warning is to warn, not to give background information. With any added text beyond a simple warning you risk losing the attention of the reader, which undermines the purpose of the warning. The warning could have included information about the penalties and a long list of systems and regions these items and other contraband items cannot enter, but every additional word lessens the chance a player will actually heed the warning. After all, if you are trying to undock, would you read through 8 paragraphs of text on a popup that blocks your undock, or click ‘OK’ and be done with it? A warning should be short and to the point to successfully warn people: _“an item in your cargo is contraband somewhere.”_ It’s up to you to gather extra information. ---
**Author:** ![Forger\_Severe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/forger_severe/32/393830_2.png) [@Forger\_Severe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Forger_Severe)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 6:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217/24 "2023-11-12T18:34:58Z")
@Io_Koval The text would help, so again we just disagree. Some would skip it, but others would be saved. You insinuating what I’m capable of learning and growing from is a bit uncalled for. You’re teaching me alot about the Vets in the game and what type of community this is, so at the very least the thread isn’t a total loss. I remember calling myself another stupid player crying about losing the game, but maybe I was wrong and needed to get that ego out of the way I’ve done what was asked of me, first ingame(by creating a ticket as instructed by the rookie chat/my corp) and then by the GM who responded back(and told me it’d be a good idea to share the information here), so yeah I feel like I’ve taken responsibility and done what I was expected of me. Sorry if that bothers you. @Gerard Are you just being hyperbolic on purpose?(ofc) I gave a concise one sentence descriptor, barely a line of text. You took the suggestion and ran with it off a cliff for what purpose? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 6:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217/25 "2023-11-12T18:52:04Z")
Sorry, I must have missed that one sentence, because you have written a lot more than that. See how easy it is to miss an apparently important part if information if it is surrounded by a lot more information? A warning should be as short as possible while containing the bare minimum amount of information to allow you to know what to look into. Example: > [@Syzygium](#): > > ![contraband](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/0/1/2/012796fa3dd8d062d1fc8c16d26a6c00361a0895.png) This warning is short and to the point. It tells you what is dangerous (item in cargo is contraband somewhere) and which item it is (slaves). No further info necessary for a warning, you now have all the means to figure out what is happening. You can read the information panel of the slaves, ask friends, search online on ‘contraband’ or do whatever it is to make sure you know what this warning is warning you for. I do not believe the warning becomes more effective if it becomes any longer. At the contrary, I believe it becomes less effective the more words you put on the popup. ---
**Author:** ![Forger\_Severe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/forger_severe/32/393830_2.png) [@Forger\_Severe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Forger_Severe)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 7:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217/26 "2023-11-12T19:31:13Z")
More short would be “Warning you have slaves” Even better right? ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217/27 "2023-11-12T19:47:59Z")
The warning you received and ignored should have been it. Anything you cant comprehend is your own fault ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 8:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217/28 "2023-11-12T20:02:23Z")
> [@Forger\_Severe](#): > > You insinuating what I’m capable of learning and growing from is a bit uncalled for. What kicked this all off, and completely uncalled for, was two things: - lying about there not being a pop up message in the first place - calling me “jaded” You can say the words “I’m taking responsibility” but everyone can see your actions here are not actually that in practice. It is not uncalled for, it is stating how people see your actions. Don’t like it? Change your behavior. > [@Forger\_Severe](#): > > Sorry if that bothers you. 🤣 I’m not the one with a -21 M ISK balance, the only thing that bothers me is how predictably quickly defensive rookies get when they make mistakes. Again, it sucks you had to learn the hard way. I really do mean that. What sucks even more is your belief that the _game_ needs to be changed, and 💩 on the community, instead of internalizing the lesson yourself and growing from it. ---
**Author:** ![Forger\_Severe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/forger_severe/32/393830_2.png) [@Forger\_Severe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Forger_Severe)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217/29 "2023-11-12T21:03:30Z")
@Io_Koval Lol what did this game do to you? I’m getting more and more afraid of logging back in if these are the long term effects. I didn’t lie, I gave my experience how I remembered it. You lack the passion to make the game better, hence jaded. This change would never effect you. It’s not for you, it’s not even for me anymore, its for new players. If I was that bent out of shape about this I’d be demanding my isk back, begging from my corp or in various chats. I didn’t vow off the game, try to hold it hostage on my terms by threatening to leave, or call it terrible. I did someone a favor. You obviously don’t like me or my approach, cool. My corp was pretty nice, offered to help me pay out some of that debt. Some random dude who heard me asking questions in rook chat mailed me 3mil no strings attached. The GM who spoke with me was super nice, helpful, and gave amazing insight. Most of this community IS great. Same as the game, it’s great. You though, I’ll keep you separate. You just seem like a POS. Can’t wait to hear how I’m wrong next time. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 9:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217/30 "2023-11-12T21:22:05Z")
I, for one, am sorry that the dialogue has ended up this way. Whatever I said to offend you, it wasn’t intended to do so. It is a simple ask, for you to embody the loss, find friends and strangers to help bail you out, Great! But don’t ask changes for the game specifically under the belief, „if only“ they were there, that it would have stopped you from doing so. Make the changes, edit the message, improve the game, that’s great! However it’s a _fine line_ between „here’s a game mechanical change, and I’m going to work on myself“ to believing „here’s a game mechanical change, and it would have stopped me“ which is all the distinction I am trying to make. But oh man has that nuance somehow festered negatively into your perception of me. The difference between us is I don’t call you „naive“ (the contra-insult to „jaded“) and certainly don’t call you names like „a piece of sh\*t“. You worried about becoming a toxic member of the community? Congratulations, you’re already there. I’m still not holding my breath. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 11:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217/31 "2023-11-12T23:54:34Z")
Good Lord, the mental gymnastics this dude is doing to absolve himself -or at least in his own mind- from taking responsibility for his own stupidity. The “pop up has too much warning info in it, so naturally I ignored it, and I won’t heed it until CCP words it in precisely the manner that I deem fit to pay attention to it” speel is a new one. “Gee officer, I didn’t pay attention to the speed limit sign because it didn’t tell me exactly what the punishment would be if I didn’t follow it. And it has to explain it to me in more than two words, but less than five. And the sign should in blue Helvetica font on a yellow background, except at nighttime where it needs to be in Times New Roman font, that is white, on a burgundy background, otherwise I just won’t pay attention to it. And that’s not _my_ fault that the government didn’t issue signage and the warning in that precise format. So naturally I’m not at fault.” ---
**Author:** ![Forger\_Severe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/forger_severe/32/393830_2.png) [@Forger\_Severe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Forger_Severe)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 1:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217/32 "2023-11-13T01:35:41Z")
Sensitive? Gotta leave wiggle room so I said you “seem” like that. Only you can control that perception. You can’t call people names per the rules of the forum. _Insert joke about reading rules_ You trying to say over and over what would and wouldn’t have worked for me is pretty egotistical. You’re not me. You have no idea what would benefit me, so just stop. Also while your at it don’t tell me what/or how its okay to ask something. That’s literally what this place is for and why I was told to post here. My motive is pretty crystal clear, to serve the community as asked. What’s yours? To end on something positive, next patch looks dope. Hope nobody freaks out if there’s a minor text update in it. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 3:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217/33 "2023-11-13T03:03:58Z")
> [@Forger\_Severe](#): > > so just stop No thanks. > [@Forger\_Severe](#): > > Also while your at it don’t tell me what/or how its okay to ask something. I absolutely can do that. Protected by first amendment rights, buddy. Nice try though. > [@Forger\_Severe](#): > > My motive is pretty crystal clear, To complain about a mechanic you didn’t understand, and whine about a text box you failed to read? ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 3:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217/34 "2023-11-13T03:20:33Z")
Im quoting/paraphrasing here: “Ignorance of the law/warning is no excuse” ---
**Author:** ![Forger\_Severe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/forger_severe/32/393830_2.png) [@Forger\_Severe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Forger_Severe)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 5:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217/35 "2023-11-13T05:44:56Z")
@Ax_l_Thorne Not even talking to you, but sure hey, come on down, everyone’s invited. Take offense however you please. Oh wait, there’s nothing here to add to the discussion. Cool cool. See ya tomorrow. For Geo: I’ll drop one too “Laws were made to be broken” It doesn’t validate an argument in any way, but its fun I guess. Just for those joining us anew and don’t want to go thru everything I’ll boil it down super easy. Argument An additional line of text would help a new player or new to trading in handling contrabrand avoid a potential neg ISK balance. Counter arguments No it wouldn’t More text - less incentive to read Devs got enough to do, leave 'em alone Unrelated to actual argument, but still worth noting: Games fine, git good ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 7:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217/36 "2023-11-13T07:25:33Z")
> [@Forger\_Severe](#): > > “Laws were made to be broken” Yep, and that’s a big part of EVE’s gameplay. Laws that you can break. You were breaking the law by carrying slaves into certain regions, and could have done successfully had you brought the right ship. I’m pretty sure a fast cloaky blockade runner for example would not have been caught. But you did get caught, which is also part of breaking the law. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 8:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217/37 "2023-11-13T08:52:43Z")
Look at the bright side: no amount of mental gymnastics will save him from the consequences of his poor choices. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 12:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217/38 "2023-11-13T12:10:37Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > I’m pretty sure a fast cloaky blockade runner for example would not have been caught. BRs can’t be scanned. And neither can be secure cans. If only he put the slaves into one of the secure cans before undocking… ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 1:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217/39 "2023-11-13T13:30:59Z")
> [@Forger\_Severe](#): > > Not even talking to you, Oh. Okay. Thanks for the update! ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 1:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217/40 "2023-11-13T13:31:55Z")
It is, however, depriving him from taking responsibility and learning from it though. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-player-negative-isk-balance-why-no-notifcations/427217.md?page=3)