# NFT's are Fundamentally a MLM-Type Scam Designed to Get You to Buy Crypto **URL:** \ **Category:** Out Of Pod Experience\ **Created:** [January 22, 2022, 4:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814 "2022-01-22T04:48:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 1:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814/263 "2022-02-09T13:11:37Z")
> [@Anderson Geten](#): > > The fact is, that adding value when there is none and thus proposing benefit to people based on such nonexistent value is a scam. Again, not many people with agree with you. feel free to check the volumes of crypto currently being traded. And again, people will disagree with you to such an extent that they have put up trillions in real cash to support it. You can go ahead and say privacy isn’t important to people, you can even make a film on the subject or write a book about it. That still won’t make you right. and it won’t make people agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 1:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814/264 "2022-02-09T13:12:22Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Again, not many people with agree with you. feel free to check the volumes of crypto currently being traded. And again, people will disagree with you to such an extent that they have put up trillions in real cash to support it. Which I already adressed : > [@Anderson Geten](#): > > A very large portion of flies eat poop. So you should do the same. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 1:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814/265 "2022-02-09T13:15:24Z")
Not everyone agrees with you buddy, accept it and move on. This isn’t something you can address, it’s just what happens. There is a sudden demand for something (privacy), someone creates a method to solve this (Digital currency using Cryptography), and then people jump on it and pay for it because it does what it says on the tin. If people are thirsty or hungry suddenly someone who makes burgers and hotdogs and drinks will appear and start making money from those hungry and thirsty people, that’s business my friend. It’s difficult to try and argue with the logical course of supply and demand. If people struggle to walk their 10 mile journey…guess what someone else will appear to try and sell them a bike, or car, or electric scooter. You can’t control the demands people have and the people who supply they demand, ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 1:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814/266 "2022-02-09T13:27:01Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > I don’t think anyone with a sane and logical mind would agree that a node on a network purposely designed to be distributed doesn’t add any value to the network. This is the problematic attitude I have with people caught up in the web3 hype. “Anyone not “in on it” must be irrationally stupid.” There’s a lot of fair criticisms that can be levied against the blockchain-as-a-database concept and _both_ the Proof-of-Stake and Proof-of-Work consensus protocols. Yes, at a technical level. The fundamental problem of the CAP theorem is not new and crypto did not solve it. The idea of trustless, anonymous protocols is not new and crypto performs extremely poorly compared to, say, FreeNet – which has been around for 20+ years. There are other developers out there that have been or are building distributed trustless networks that have elements of (pseudo or full) anonymity, censorship-resistance, and high throughput. From Tor to BitTorrent to GNUtella to IPFS to Secure Scuttlebutt to ActivityPub to FreeNet… etc. The main problem is crypto provides just enough information for lay people to engage in technical analysis that is just shy of being deep enough to fully appreciate the nuances and kind of problems with stakes like “(Nation-state) black-bags political dissident site operator” or “Cartel uses network weakness to deanonymize leaker and decapitates them and their family”, which tend to get used as earnest examples in the rooms of people building these networks but tends to get eye rolls from lay people. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 1:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814/267 "2022-02-09T13:30:46Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > I don’t think anyone with a sane and logical mind would agree that a node on a network purposely designed to be distributed doesn’t add any value to the network. Be sure to quote all of what i said as it makes it difficult for others to understand what I’m saying, I was referring to any distributed computer system when i said that due to someone saying a node on such a system has no value. And I am 100% right on that point, no sane person would agree. > [@Io Koval](#): > > This is the problematic attitude I have with people caught up in the web3 hype. “Anyone not “in on it” must be irrationally stupid.” That is not what I said, I implied anyone who thinks a node on ANY system inteded to be distributed has no value has a stupid viewpoint. I do not think people are stupid for thinking bitcoin is a scam, I just think they might need to understand it further. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 1:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814/268 "2022-02-09T13:34:35Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Be sure to quote all of what i said as it makes it difficult for others to understand what I’m saying, I was referring to any distributed computer system when i said that due to someone saying a node on such a system has no value. > > And I am 100% right on that point, no sane person would agree. Sure, and I’ve edited my post. When a node is added to a distributed network, it can absolutely be adversarial. That’s my whole point of countering yours: it is not a valued participant because it is hostile, and the stakes can be resulting in the very real-world consequences of people dying. You’re claiming that such adversarial nodes are _still valuable_, which to me seems very odd, but you’re also claiming _people like me_ are the irrational and stupid ones. Nodes can superficially fulfill the role of “keeping the network operational” while being operated by people who fully intend to subverting it or other people using the network. I am merely pointing out that no, people like me are neither irrational nor stupid. _That’s_ the kind of attitude that plagues the whole crypto community, like there’s some high minded insight the rest of us critics are lacking. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 1:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814/269 "2022-02-09T13:37:34Z")
LOL, you’re twisting what I said. In the context of crypto and the functions of a valid and legal node attached to it’s distributed system and carrying out it’s intended tasks (validating transactions), It would be stupid of anyone to think THIS node has no value or doesn’t add value to it’s respective network. At no point am I saying people are stupid for thinking Bitcoin and crypto is a scam. Have I made myself clear? ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 1:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814/270 "2022-02-09T13:40:07Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > LOL, you’re twisting what I said. Let me quote _you_ so you understand _what you said_: > [@Aaron](#): > > > [@Aaron](#): > > > > I don’t think anyone with a sane and logical mind would agree that a node on a network purposely designed to be distributed doesn’t add any value to the network. > > Be sure to quote all of what i said > [@Aaron](#): > > I implied anyone who thinks a node on ANY system inteded to be distributed has no value has a stupid viewpoint. And now you’re free to point out _my_ twist: > [@Io Koval](#): > > When a node is added to a distributed network, it can absolutely be adversarial. That’s my whole point of countering yours: it is not a valued participant because it is hostile, and the stakes can be resulting in the very real-world consequences of people dying. You’re claiming that such adversarial nodes are _still valuable_, which to me seems very odd, but you’re also claiming _people like me_ are the irrational and stupid ones. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814/271 "2022-02-09T13:42:31Z")
> [@Io Koval](#): > > When a node is added to a distributed network, it can absolutely be adversarial I understand and accept this point, but that was not the nature of what Geten and I were discussing. So don’t quote part of what I said and use it to further your point. The node I operate is not adversarial, I was trying to point out that I add value to the network because I have a node that helps process transactions and claimed it had a value because i am paid that value on a daily basis. I said Geten’s point was silly because he disagreed with what is apparent. Your twist is your trying to associate me calling geten stupid is related to the fact that he thinks crypto is a scam. This is incorrect. I ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 1:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814/272 "2022-02-09T13:49:08Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > In the context of crypto and the functions of a valid and legal node attached to it’s distributed system and carrying out it’s intended tasks (validating transactions), It would be stupid of anyone to think THIS node has no value or doesn’t add value to it’s respective network. This will be the last I say on the matter: This is just a specific case of what I am discussing. The node operator can be adversarial. It can be a government agency, the mob, or your jealous neighbor. The node can _appear_ to be a bland node and carry out network operations, giving the _appearance_ of giving value to the network and nothing more. However, it can still be used for subversive and/or malicious ends: de-anonymization of peer nodes, metadata tracking, port-scanning to discover novel peers and map out IPs, geo-locate those IPs, traffic analysis, and so on. _Some_ crypto networks address these better than others. However, it is clear from “dealing with bad guys” from the Silk Road shutdown, to FBI nailing specific individuals for paying for CSAM, to Vitalik hard-forking ETH due to “the Dao went wrong”, that the currently-popular networks are _not_ anonymous and _not_ outside the control of those already with power and money. And so trying to say "crypto will support _the good guys_ like “lifting people in poverty” or “financially supporting whistleblower dissidents” means the people fighting _against_ these “good guys” have the same exact “bad-guy”-fighting-tools to silence and/or kill them too. Those capabilities didn’t just get conjured out of thin air, those people _are also network participants running nodes that are “adding value” to the network_ – but for greater purposes. People are still getting paid for the transactions – just sometimes, that money is going to fund operations that result in death. It’s not my fault if the “scope of things being considered in the discussion at hand” is too small – these are very much a part of discussions that happen in the rooms containing the people that maintain some of the networks I outline above, and they don’t get to be magically handwaved away “because its unfair”. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814/273 "2022-02-09T13:51:55Z")
I agree with what you say. the part I disagree with is this part below; > [@Io Koval](#): > > This is the problematic attitude I have with people caught up in the web3 hype. “Anyone not “in on it” must be irrationally stupid.” I do not think this, ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 1:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814/274 "2022-02-09T13:52:35Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > I do not think this, I am glad to hear you do not. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 2:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814/275 "2022-02-09T14:04:29Z")
Personally I think more time is needed for the crypto industry to mature, the truth is it’s still in it’s infancy as other currencies have been around for hundreds of years and although they tried to create a digital currency in the 80s Crypto is still only about 10 years old. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 3:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814/276 "2022-02-09T15:16:36Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Crypto is still only about 10 years old. Hey, don’t be sad. It’s already being used for : - Halving ; the rewards for the block are halved but there is a chance the value goes up, so keep on working. This happened in 2013,2016,2020 and will keep on reducing the miner’s wages until every coin is mined. All to the benefit of the individual miner off course. - International money transfer : Say goodbye to those raunchy shady money transfer kiosks, now you can send money all over the world without any oversight or nasty middleman reporting to the government! Freedom to support the Afghanistan women financially right? Crypto activity in the collapsing country is likely a sign of capital flight by corrupt elites, not aid or remittances flowing in. Let that sink in. All to the benefit of “blind women that learn to code” or whatever the mainstream media are calling it. Yes, this can be done using wire transfer too, well, not that but most of it. Bitcoin just made it easier for the worst and harder for the best. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 3:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814/277 "2022-02-09T15:53:37Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > Hey, don’t be sad. It’s already being used for : Not sad at all, In fact this is the happiest I have been in my life financially and I am happy to be in this industry while it’s in it’s infancy. I believe it is here to stay and there is work to be done to close loopholes which some exploit. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > Halving ; the rewards for the block are halved but there is a chance the value goes up, so keep on working. This happened in 2013,2016,2020 and will keep on reducing the miner’s wages until every coin is mined. All to the benefit of the individual miner off course. There are many crypto coins to mine, and in fact BTC is only mined via ASIC’s and not GPU, ASIC’s are becoming cheaper so we will see more bitcoin mining by the general public but most of it is done by huge companies who can afford 1000s of expensive £10k ASIC’s But for now any GPU miner isn’t mining Bitcoin, they are just paid in bitcoin. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > International money transfer : Say goodbye to those raunchy shady money transfer kiosks, now you can send money all over the world without any oversight or nasty middleman reporting to the government! Freedom to support the Afghanistan women financially right? Crypto activity in the collapsing country is likely a sign of capital flight by corrupt elites, not aid or remittances flowing in. Let that sink in. All to the benefit of “blind women that learn to code” or whatever the mainstream media are calling it. Incorrect, you still have to register with a crypto exchange who will want to see your drivers licence, or passport, proof of address and all the usual checks one would go through when using any financial platform. How do you think that 5 Billion crypto heist got Seized? there are still informants around who are “pretending” to be able launder criminals digital money but in reality they work for the FBI or similar law enforcement agency. Observing the facts here it is becoming harder and harder to get away with crypto crime. [5 Billion Crypto Heist Seized - US & Canada](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60310783) > [@Aedaxus](#): > > now you can send money all over the world without any oversight or nasty middleman reporting to the government! Not factually true. I believe crypto currency exchanges are required by law to report anyone who owns over a certain value of crypto to the tax office of that country. Here is a quick video to show the kinds of employment that have been created thanks to crypto, this is a real cool video and gives some insight into the kind of dudes involved in crypto: [How I Hacked a Device to Recover $2Million in Crypto](https://youtu.be/dT9y-KQbqi4) The poor guy with the locked crypto wallet looks like he’s about to cry, lots of money at stake here… ---
**Author:** ![Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gadget_helmsdottir/32/374037_2.png) [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gadget_Helmsdottir)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 4:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814/278 "2022-02-09T16:29:50Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Ethereum is a legal digital currency… Shiny rocks and glass beads are also currency. What government is backing this “currency” should things go pear shaped? –Gadget will give you two beads for three E-Coins ---
**Author:** ![Arumi\_Liz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arumi_liz/32/276823_2.png) [@Arumi\_Liz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arumi_Liz)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814/279 "2022-02-09T16:30:21Z")
You are lying a lot in that post. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 4:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814/280 "2022-02-09T16:32:29Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Incorrect, you still have to register with a crypto exchange who will want to see your drivers licence, or passport, proof of address and all the usual checks one would go through when using any financial platform. So bitcoin exchanges are like the real exchanges? And middlemen are NOT cut out? They have to comply to regulation so the government does regulate them? I’m confused as all of the “advantages” you said are being changed isn’t it rather time to get out? In March 2021, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFCT) issued an order filing and settling charges (including a $6.5 million settlement) against cryptocurrency exchange Coinbase for “[reckless, false, misleading, or inaccurate](https://cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8369-21) reporting as well as [wash trading](https://www.cftc.gov/LearnAndProtect/AdvisoriesAndArticles/CFTCGlossary/index.htm#washsales)” on its GDAX platform. Other leading cryptocurrency exchanges investigated for their trading practices include Bitfinex and Binance. So, If I want to have a wallet it cannot just be a wallet, it’s a wallet in a bank? Ok, i’ll call the bank an exchange right, so it’s not a bank, it’s a bank that is called an exchange. Ok, now I get it. Sorry, I was assuming it was decentralized but I didn’t really understand… how much is the insurance in case the exchange fails? I know, banks… eh exchanges never fail, but just in case it does, it’s like a bank account owned by … [Bitcoin Is Still Concentrated in a Few Hands, Study Finds | Time](https://time.com/6110392/bitcoin-ownership/) ROFL, seriously? It’s like bankster heaven… I bet the banksters love the common people. #TheMoreYouKnow oh and #YouWillBeRichAndConfused - I think that’s what that one rich guy said… or wait… 😃 ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/e/3/6/e36f0984b13461353af07d8f4fd58422b987f226.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 4:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814/281 "2022-02-09T16:36:19Z")
> [@Arumi Liz](#): > > You are lying a lot in that post. Then correct me. You are being really useful in these posts. Thank you for posting, next time use this processing power for making more billions. ---
**Author:** ![Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gadget_helmsdottir/32/374037_2.png) [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gadget_Helmsdottir)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 4:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814/282 "2022-02-09T16:37:06Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Why do you think I am participating in a scam for having a good understanding of what’s going on and providing a platform in the form of a node used to confirm transactions for crypto? Aaron, People who truly believe in Nigerian Princes are also participating in a scam… As the Mark. –Helpful Gadget [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814.md?page=12) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nfts-are-fundamentally-a-mlm-type-scam-designed-to-get-you-to-buy-crypto/346814.md?page=14)