# Niarja Referendum **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 13, 2025, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791 "2025-11-13T16:11:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Antihrist\_Pripravnik](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/antihrist_pripravnik/32/502236_2.png) [@Antihrist\_Pripravnik](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Antihrist_Pripravnik)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 1:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791/143 "2025-11-18T01:23:42Z")
> [@James\_Fuchs](#): > > Guys, where do you get the idea that there aren’t consequences for ganking? From game mechanics. > [@James\_Fuchs](#): > > Aside from your ship getting blown up, That’s not a consequence - that’s a calculated intention. > [@James\_Fuchs](#): > > It does cost a bit of money though, half a billion roughly to repair your security record back from -5 to 0. If you want to repair it instead of rolling the character, and if you want to pay instead of rat while earning ISK. > [@James\_Fuchs](#): > > If you’re on multiple accounts, let’s just say ten, then you are racking up a pretty nice sum very quickly (and regularly). No you are not, if you roll characters. > [@James\_Fuchs](#): > > If you’re anything else, like a mission runner or a freighterpilot, and you gank with the same character on the side, you’re out of your mind. Exactly. That’s why everyone uses ganking alts - to avoid consequences. All of the consequences apply only to characters that are staying in the game and are playing any other aspect of the game except ganking. They are not. ---
**Author:** ![Malak\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malak_starfire/32/501915_2.png) [@Malak\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malak_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 2:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791/144 "2025-11-18T02:12:20Z")
> [@Antihrist\_Pripravnik](#): > > Exactly. That’s why everyone uses ganking alts - to avoid consequences. You claim there are no consequences, and yet you say that people are avoiding them…which is it? ---
**Author:** ![Hatch\_Nasty](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hatch_nasty/32/512820_2.png) [@Hatch\_Nasty](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hatch_Nasty)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 2:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791/145 "2025-11-18T02:15:00Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Engagements aren’t asymmetric just in HS. I didn’t say “asymmetric engagement,” I said “asymmetric **rules of** engagement.” That’s an important distinction. If I’m a HS ganker, I undock intending to lose my ship to CONCORD in exchange for a killmail. I also know that my target (who did not undock with that intention) cannot preemptively defend themselves, nor can anyone else preemptively intervene, without provoking CONCORD themselves. Even as I’m lining up the kill, I don’t become a criminal until the second I pull the trigger. Meanwhile, I stand to lose a 2m ISK Catalyst, the miner stands to lose a 300m ISK mining barge. I have every tactical advantage, choosing the time and place of the hit with the willingness to trade my ship for theirs. The target only has the option to try and avoid the hit. If you’re mining in 0.0 and a tackler comes on grid in advance of a hostile fleet, you have the option to try and send your drones before he lands a lock and point. You might have even seen him coming on D-scan if you were paying attention. By sacrificing the drones, it might buy you time to warp out and save your barge (or it might not). But either way, if you did that in HS and you land the first blow, CONCORD will just do the ganker’s job for them. Your only option in HS is to passively cut, run, and pray. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > But please tell me, as I’m not a HS miner and rarely see the Catalyst gankers that kill them, but don’t those Catalysts fly with negative security status? Negative sec does not mean -5.0. And from what I’ve seen, I don’t know that a lot of HS gankers fly flashy. I think that’s the entire point of buying clone soldier tags, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 2:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791/146 "2025-11-18T02:23:19Z")
I have a question: If someone is flying into high sec to go to Jita from low sec, you can cyno jump the whole way, but you still have to use that last jump gate into high sec, right? That’s one guaranteed gate camp that cannot be bypassed right? All the cynos in the game won’t let you avoid jumping through that gate. ---
**Author:** ![Hatch\_Nasty](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hatch_nasty/32/512820_2.png) [@Hatch\_Nasty](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hatch_Nasty)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 2:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791/147 "2025-11-18T02:28:55Z")
That’s correct, you can’t light a cyno in HS. However, you usually have multiple options for border systems, making gatecamps more difficult to coordinate than with a single HS chokepoint like Uedama. Also, it’s not uncommon for LS systems to border 0.6 HS systems, with faster CONCORD response. ---
**Author:** ![Antihrist\_Pripravnik](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/antihrist_pripravnik/32/502236_2.png) [@Antihrist\_Pripravnik](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Antihrist_Pripravnik)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 2:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791/148 "2025-11-18T02:39:23Z")
> [@Malak\_Starfire](#): > > You claim there are no consequences, and yet you say that people are avoiding them…which is it? There are theoretical consequences that are in practice easily avoidable. ---
**Author:** ![Malak\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malak_starfire/32/501915_2.png) [@Malak\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malak_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 2:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791/149 "2025-11-18T02:42:31Z")
And if CCP came by and read and takes away that the consequences aren’t there and then turns up sec status loss by 10x they aren’t going to solve the problem. Denying reality does nothing for you. The consequences are there, acknowledge them and go after the actual problem you want fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Synthetic\_Infomorph](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/synthetic_infomorph/32/489149_2.png) [@Synthetic\_Infomorph](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Synthetic_Infomorph)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 2:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791/150 "2025-11-18T02:49:36Z")
JFs are also relatively hard to gank in the first place, as they have 10-50% more EHP than a T1 freighter, ie up to about one million EHP. ---
**Author:** ![Antihrist\_Pripravnik](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/antihrist_pripravnik/32/502236_2.png) [@Antihrist\_Pripravnik](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Antihrist_Pripravnik)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 3:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791/151 "2025-11-18T03:04:02Z")
> [@Malak\_Starfire](#): > > And if CCP came by and read and takes away that the consequences aren’t there and then turns up sec status loss by 10x they aren’t going to solve the problem. No they are not going to solve the problem, because sec status hit is easily avoidable by rolling characters. > [@Malak\_Starfire](#): > > The consequences are there, acknowledge them Where? List the consequences that can not be avoided. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 3:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791/152 "2025-11-18T03:06:42Z")
> [@Antihrist\_Pripravnik](#): > > List the consequences that can not be avoided. These consequences will never be the same. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 3:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791/153 "2025-11-18T03:43:46Z")
> [@Synthetic\_Infomorph](#): > > JFs are also relatively hard to gank in the first place, as they have 10-50% more EHP than a T1 freighter, ie up to about one million EHP. I don’t like jump freighters because they’re 9 billion ISK. That’s a hefty price tag for a freighter. That’s more than a lot of capital ships. Sure it can jump, but so can the BLOPS. It’s worth 1B ISK. Has no cargo space, but it has really big guns. There’s no need for the JFs to cost as much as they do. ---
**Author:** ![Malak\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malak_starfire/32/501915_2.png) [@Malak\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malak_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 6:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791/154 "2025-11-18T06:07:36Z")
> [@Antihrist\_Pripravnik](#): > > Where? List the consequences that can not be avoided. Here you are qualifying the response, but others will not and just say that there are not any consequences, which all that does is muddy the water. Others saying that they just don’t exist are just denying reality (or communicating a reality that does not comport with facts). > [@Antihrist\_Pripravnik](#): > > Where? List the consequences that can not be avoided. Here you are implying a denial that any consequences exist, even though I can point to several: -loss of ship -loss of security status -loss of ISK to regain security status -Killright(s) -ability to be shot at by anyone for 15 minutes after criminal timer starts. These ARE consequences, they can be argued that they are small ones, but they DO exist. Now, let me help move the conversation past the question of consequences existing… what consequences do anti-gankers people want for these gankers? ---
**Author:** ![Antihrist\_Pripravnik](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/antihrist_pripravnik/32/502236_2.png) [@Antihrist\_Pripravnik](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Antihrist_Pripravnik)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 6:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791/155 "2025-11-18T06:17:13Z")
> [@Malak\_Starfire](#): > > -loss of ship > -loss of security status > -loss of ISK to regain security status > -Killright(s) > -ability to be shot at by anyone for 15 minutes after criminal timer starts. - Loss of ship is not a consequence. It’s planned. - Loss of security status is meaningless if you roll ganking characters. - Loss of ISK to regain security status does not exist if you roll ganking characters. - Killrights are meaningless for characters that are dedicated ganking alts and are only participating in that kind of gameplay. - The only unavoidable consequence is a minor annoyance of 15 minutes of criminal timer. ---
**Author:** ![Malak\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malak_starfire/32/501915_2.png) [@Malak\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malak_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 6:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791/156 "2025-11-18T06:26:38Z")
There you go, denying reality again. These ARE consequences. Just like people in real life often pay fines. The fines being small does NOT negate the existence of fines. Again, let’s move past what should be basic facts about ganking and answer the question, what do you want to see as consequences for gankers? ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 6:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791/157 "2025-11-18T06:36:41Z")
They won’t be happy until ganking is all but impossible… ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 6:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791/158 "2025-11-18T06:37:34Z")
I think a forced biomassing of the transgressing characters would be a fair consequence for criminal gameplay in high sec. And also the inability to create new characters under that account and e-mail. Otherwise people would simply avoid the consequences. Edit: This was a joke, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Malak\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malak_starfire/32/501915_2.png) [@Malak\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malak_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 6:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791/159 "2025-11-18T06:39:46Z")
Eh, I am personally against biomassing as they should live with the consequences of their actions, but not being able to make characters to avoid the consequences I agree with. ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 6:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791/160 "2025-11-18T06:40:17Z")
Nothing you do in EVE has any consequences as long as it is free to play with the ability to make infinite free accounts… ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 6:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791/161 "2025-11-18T06:49:50Z")
Well those free accounts won’t let you gank, because Alphas cannot turn safeties to red. The criminal career is one of the very few things in this game that is locked behind the paywall of a subscription. > [@Hatch\_Nasty](#): > > I didn’t say “asymmetric engagement,” I said “asymmetric **rules of** engagement.” That’s an important distinction. Fair. But I hope you did notice the last part of my post did address asymmetric rules of engagement? Oh I see you did: > [@Hatch\_Nasty](#): > > Negative sec does not mean -5.0. And from what I’ve seen, I don’t know that a lot of HS gankers fly flashy. I think that’s the entire point of buying clone soldier tags, isn’t it? Not all HS gankers fly flashy. I’m not there often, but I can imagine the Tornado gankers who like to sit at gates and stations will choose not to fly flashy as it makes them vulnerable to attacks from people without kill rights. I do however occasionally see groups of flashy gankers whenever I fly around. But then again I probably wouldn’t notice their names in local as gankers if they weren’t flashy so I cannot comment on how many of them fly flashy versus non-flashy. I bet the Catalyst gankers prefer to fly flashy as it reduces the cost per gank a lot. ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 6:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791/162 "2025-11-18T06:53:56Z")
A whopping $3.75 USD gets you a 3-day Omega pass to gank to your heart’s content on as many accounts as you wish to do it on with zero consequences… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/niarja-referendum/500791.md?page=9)