# No Downtime - Again! **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** official, devblog\ **Created:** [September 6, 2021, 3:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684 "2021-09-06T15:00:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 2:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684/205 "2021-09-09T14:46:34Z")
would you rather the whole thing just crash instead?? ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 2:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684/206 "2021-09-09T14:47:32Z")
Yes. 5 characters. ---
**Author:** ![Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkikaden_tiragen/32/243913_2.png) [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mkikaden_Tiragen)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 2:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684/207 "2021-09-09T14:56:46Z")
> [@Vrykonik\_Chipri](#): > > I’ve been running enemies abound missions for isk… I have 7 of them lined up for today and none of the NPCs respawned for me to kill and gather my loot. This is a serious negative impact on my gameplay in terms of my ability to farm isk regularly. Please submit a bug report and post this feedback and the bug report number to the [No Downtime Vol. 2 Feedback Thread](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-vol-2-feedback-thread/326919) ---
**Author:** ![Fale\_Einn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fale_einn/32/477432_2.png) [@Fale\_Einn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fale_Einn)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 3:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684/208 "2021-09-09T15:36:32Z")
Yer a monster Zod. ---
**Author:** ![Vrykonik\_Chipri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vrykonik_chipri/32/287480_2.png) [@Vrykonik\_Chipri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vrykonik_Chipri)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 3:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684/209 "2021-09-09T15:41:39Z")
I have reported the bug in game, however I have yet to get a response from any GM despite reporting around 3 hours ago. I am in Caldari space and they are high security missions throughout the entire region. It took me a long while to round up all those missions only for this to ruin me being able to repeat them all. It is all missions in the enemies abound chain that I tested on as I have all the combat missions. My brother on his account tested it too and he is also missing NPC respawns from normal downtime. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684/210 "2021-09-09T15:42:13Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > Yesterday I was part of a fleet to bash a tiny little Fortizar. Some people decided to bring big toys just for the fun of it. Snuff is in range of that place. You know how things snowball, right? Yup. I absolutely know how things snowball. I also know you _chose_ to be there. You never _have_ to experience tidi. You know that situations like the one you describe _might_ result in tidi… and you still choose to put yourself into them. For the record, though, the issue that causes the most tidi in lowsec is _crimewatch_, so much so that CCP’s gone in and manually turned it off during large fights. They may even have automated that now. And if you think tidi’s the shittiest experience imaginable in EVE, you should try experiencing pre-tidi versions of those same events. I know you’re saying you’d rather the whole thing crash, but remember: it only crashed your _client_. While you blackscreened, your ship still popped up. It still got shot and died. And you did _not_ get it back. These days, we can do reasonably large-scale (1k per side) fights without tidi hitting 50%, in null. You want to address the ‘shittiest experience imaginable’ in _modern_ EVE… get them to figure out a better system for Suspect/Criminal flagging in lowsec, instead of ‘I have to check everyone on grid against everyone else on grid for every potentially suspect act, every single tick’. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684/211 "2021-09-09T15:47:03Z")
Not Zod… ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/8/d/2/8d2db3c3995fdba041102f18644c53cd69d2d01e.jpeg) **Zod**. [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/8/5/5/8550fe6787fbb541f8e46c24e2c1c2b74d3551ca.jpeg "KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiq5tnzmLBM) That’s why they had to demolish Metropolis with the world engine in Man of Steel, you know. Michael Shannon, good as he is, couldn’t just scenery-chew the city down like Terrance Stamp. (Also, Man of Steel. Commentary on the state of Kansas schools? Clark didn’t even think to say ‘Zod, just frikkin’ use Venus or Mars and I’ll totally help out’?) ---
**Author:** ![Ratwerke\_Actual](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ratwerke_actual/32/384764_2.png) [@Ratwerke\_Actual](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ratwerke_Actual)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684/212 "2021-09-09T16:11:01Z")
I noticed Project Discovery’s submission timer went to 24hrs., instead of being reset at DT. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 5:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684/213 "2021-09-09T17:22:31Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > get them to figure out a better system for Suspect/Criminal flagging in lowsec, instead of ‘I have to check everyone on grid against everyone else on grid for every potentially suspect act, every single tick’. simply turn everyone criminal who enters a grid with lots of suspects/criminals. Everyone is in the same state and things like sec status punishment for shooting someone or someone’s pod would not have to be calculated. That would solve all sorts of issues with low sec in one go and everyone could fight to their hearts content without having to worry about sec status penalties for high sec. > [@Arrendis](#): > > And if you think tidi’s the shittiest experience imaginable in EVE, you should try experiencing pre-tidi versions of those same events. I know you’re saying you’d rather the whole thing crash, but remember: it only crashed your _client_. > > While you blackscreened, your ship still popped up. That’s also shitty but at least it is over for you and you can do something else instead of sitting locked up in an unresponsive client for hours or days one day. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 5:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684/214 "2021-09-09T17:27:17Z")
would help if you do as he asked, and in the feedback thread, post the EBR number for the ticket so he can get to it quicker ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684/215 "2021-09-09T17:34:36Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > simply turn everyone criminal who enters a grid with lots of suspects/criminals. Wow. That’s just amazingly bad. So you get 20 guys in 2 alliances. They shoot one another to pick up criminal flags, then warp to a HS gate and just… sit there. Haulers warp in, get flagged, jump through because the poor bastards didn’t seethe flag go up before they auto-jump fired off… and get CONCORDED on the other side, where members of the two alliance’s join alt-corp are waiting to scoop the loot. Congratulations, you’ve invented a perfectly safe way to gank people. > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > That’s also shitty but at least it is over for you and you can do something else instead of sitting locked up in an unresponsive client for hours or days one day. No, no it’s not. Because your client _did_ lock up, and it’ll stay that way for hours. Or you close it and try to log back in. Your option there? That’s ‘close my client and screw over all of my alliance-mates who are still fighting because I don’t even want to _try_’. That’s a good way to get kicked out of your alliance, if the guys in charge didn’t _say_ to just stay logged off. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684/216 "2021-09-09T17:53:23Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Congratulations, you’ve invented a perfectly safe way to gank people. Make a new flag that only persists in the system. If a system sees a ton of action, the entire system flags people entering the system and deflags when they leave. We aren’t strangers to flags for special occasions. > [@Arrendis](#): > > No, no it’s not. Because your client _did_ lock up, and it’ll stay that way for hours. Or you close it and try to log back in. Your option there? That’s ‘close my client and screw over all of my alliance-mates who are still fighting because I don’t even want to _try_’. > > That’s a good way to get kicked out of your alliance, if the guys in charge didn’t _say_ to just stay logged off. If the game doesn’t work properly, I don’t waste my time with it if I don’t have to. With tidi, I have to waste my time because the game keeps running at an experience level akin to getting your skin peeled off your flesh. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 5:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684/217 "2021-09-09T17:56:39Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > Make a new flag that only persists in the system. Adding more and more complexity to a system that’s already got too much complexity _does not help_. > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > With tidi, I have to waste my time because the game keeps running at an experience level akin to getting your skin peeled off your flesh. I promise, I’ve dealt with worse tidi, for longer periods, than you have. My point there wasn’t about the tidi, it’s about _screwing over your friends_. There is, in this social contract we engage in by being members of an alliance, an implication of ‘I will pitch in when needed and not only show up when it’s convenient for me’. The fact that your response to a complication that impacts everyone is to think only of your own inconvenience… that’s telling. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 6:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684/218 "2021-09-09T18:03:35Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Adding more and more complexity to a system that’s already got too much complexity _does not help_. It takes away complexity because the flag trumps all other flags. Complicated things like checking suspect, criminal flags, sec status penalties, legality of shooting someone or something etc is all trumped and replaced with 1 simple flag. > [@Arrendis](#): > > The fact that your response to a complication that impacts everyone is to think only of your own inconvenience… that’s telling. It’s telling you that I do not want to waste my time with an atrocious experience. Plus, you are dramatic. If I cannot get into a system for whatever reason, regardless if the system breaks at 10 or 10000 people, it’s irrelevant if I “try” to be there. That has little to do with caring for alliance “friends”. > [@Arrendis](#): > > an implication of ‘I will pitch in when needed and not only show up when it’s convenient for me’. You are now telling me that I actually _have to_ subject myself to tidilagfests if I am of a weak mind and cave to social pressure. Telling. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 6:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684/219 "2021-09-09T18:13:32Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > It takes away complexity because the flag trumps all other flags. It doesn’t, because crimewatch is still running. It’ll still be checking things. And the reason you know it’ll still be checking things is that in order to have a system see a lot of action, _you have to have crimewatch running_. So now you’ve got this new flag, and every server tick, the server needs to ask ‘do I still need this flag in place? Well, how should I know? Oh, right, it’s built on Crimewatch, so _crimewatch still needs to be running_.’ Otherwise, the system never knows when it needs to _stop_ using the new superflag. > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > It’s telling you that I do not want to waste my time with an atrocious experience. It’s telling me that you really don’t give a damn about your alliance-mates, and you won’t have their backs if it’s inconvenient for you. It’s telling me that the only person you really give a crap about in EVE (and, because patterns of behavior tend to be consistent, probably outside of EVE, too) is you. The system doesn’t break at _any_ ‘X # of people’ count. It breaks under specific conditions and behaviors. And time dilation _is not breakage_. > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > You are now telling me that I actually _have to_ subject myself to tidilagfests if I am of a weak mind and cave to social pressure. No. It’s still 100% your choice. You don’t _have_ to do anything. But if you _choose_ to put yourself in a social structure that carries with it some implicit commitments, and then you _choose_ to dismiss those commitments because they inconvenience you… well, _that_ is pretty telling. Personally, I’d say that if you don’t want to be in a position where it’s expected that you’ll _voluntarily_ put up with certain inconveniences… don’t choose to put yourself in that position. Nobody’s forcing you to join those groups. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 6:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684/220 "2021-09-09T18:26:02Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > So now you’ve got this new flag, and every server tick, the server needs to ask ‘do I still need this flag in place? Well, how should I know? Oh, right, it’s built on Crimewatch, so _crimewatch still needs to be running_.’ Otherwise, the system never knows when it needs to _stop_ using the new superflag. There are other things that can be used to start up the flag. For instance, ship kills per minute, damage done per minute or weapon shots fired per minute. These things should be easier on the calculation load and are already things that should be tracked because the game generates killmails and tells you how much damage you dealt/suffered. > [@Arrendis](#): > > It’s telling me that you really don’t give a damn about your alliance-mates, The “giving a damn about alliance mates” has limits. Wasting away a night looking at an unresponsive client while not being able to do anything for hours breaks these limits. Considering that I am not alone with that sentiment, alliance mates share the same sentiment after a certain threshhold. See “False Advertising” about Upwell Structures for reference. > [@Arrendis](#): > > But if you _choose_ to put yourself in a social structure that carries with it some implicit commitments, and then you _choose_ to dismiss those commitments because they inconvenience you… well, _that_ is pretty telling. It only tells you what you want to see. Unconditional commitment is not a healthy approach to anything and once gameplay fun is impacted too much, certain conditions are just not in the right regions any longer to justify more engagement. That’s a thing lots of people share and no group is a stranger to this. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 6:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684/221 "2021-09-09T18:49:49Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > There are other things that can be used to start up the flag. For instance, ship kills per minute, damage done per minute or weapon shots fired per minute. None of which necessarily indicate Suspect or Criminal behavior. Two groups with a highsec wardec shooting at one another wouldn’t get flags on their own, but by your metric, everyone _else_ gets flagged because of them? C’mon. > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > Unconditional commitment is not a healthy approach to anything Funny how the only one talking about ‘unconditional commitment’ is you, though, huh? Any responsible and reasonable group would be having internal discussions about ‘is this working? Is it worth it?’ and making decisions based on those discussions. But that’s not what you described. You described _you_, on your own, making unilateral decisions about ‘nope, as soon as it starts, it’s not worth **my** time’. Absolutely everything, until I drove it home that I was talking about your selfishness, was couched in terms of yourself, in the singular. It was all ‘I’, ‘me’, and ‘myself’. > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > I don’t waste my time with it if I don’t have to. With tidi, I have to waste my time > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > I do not want to waste my time > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > I actually _have to_ subject myself Never ‘we’. The closest you come is saying that your alliance-mates have their limits ‘after a certain threshold’. But for yourself, there’s no mention of a ‘threshold’. You just dismiss the idea out of hand _for yourself_. After all, for all that you talk about ‘hours’ of tidi… you don’t know how long tidi will last when it starts, so either you’re looking at sitting there for hours _anyway_, or you’re personally cutting and running early because it _might_ go long. No group is a stranger to the difficulties that come with various gameplay conditions, but you know, that’s why it’s important for the group to be able to make things fun just within their own socializing. ‘Fun’ isn’t a rigid thing where ‘oh, the mechanics are terrible, therefore nobody can be having fun’. Losing a horribly lopsided fight isn’t ‘fun’, either, but doing it with the right group of people, laughing about what’s happening and leaning on the social connections you’ve got can take it from ‘this sucks’ to ‘Oh my god, that was hilarious. Let’s do it again, but better’. ---
**Author:** ![Shinigami\_Shinda\_s](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shinigami_shinda_s/32/255865_2.png) [@Shinigami\_Shinda\_s](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shinigami_Shinda_s)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 7:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684/222 "2021-09-09T19:21:47Z")
![grafik](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/5/e/a/5eae6ad63adf2d99f8a8a4ce40e44debfbea1c62.jpeg) I dont know why but yesterday all worked fine, now i get these fancy Project discovery cluster. Several cloasing the PJD and open it again loads the cluster but then i get this again. I have no idea why it has this issue but yesterday it worked normally. ![grafik](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/0/6/e/06e8fbb46e99a9e6b0577a098d9d9e3c4607a58e.jpeg) in 40% the rated are like this but its still odd. and apx 10% unrated [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/b/4/2/b42fd951fd7ca40a03c8d94c369e8e012aa387fb.jpeg "Eve Online 2021 09 09 21 25 28 02") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCd_iHpUeok) Intresting: ![grafik](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/8/b/98b5bae5c35a09b8f6cc261397d7f1d8975886c6.png) looks like the day is over 20:40 ingame update tested it now i can submitt then again after the 13min timer or not after 260 reports in total i got the right timer pop up: ![grafik](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/a/e/3/ae3f008803eba6849b6ee61305c0fd06517693ca.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Explorer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_explorer/32/385081_2.png) [@CCP\_Explorer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Explorer)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 10:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684/223 "2021-09-09T22:13:10Z")
> [@Vrykonik\_Chipri](#): > > I have reported the bug in game, however I have yet to get a response from any GM despite reporting around 3 hours ago. What’s the EBR number of your bug report? Please note that bug reports and support requests are two different things. If you need help from Customer Support, please visit the Help Center and open a chat or send in a support request. If you are reporting a bug then they are collected in our defect tracking system for the Dev Team, where they will be processed, but we may or may not respond to individual bug reports. ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Explorer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_explorer/32/385081_2.png) [@CCP\_Explorer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Explorer)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 10:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684/224 "2021-09-09T22:14:25Z")
> [@Ratwerke\_Actual](#): > > I noticed Project Discovery’s submission timer went to 24hrs., instead of being reset at DT. And were you then able to submit again once the 24 hour timer expired? Please send us a bug report. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-downtime-again/326684.md?page=12)