# No one ever mentions how much ISK he's "losing" because of the ESS change **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 6, 2020, 7:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-one-ever-mentions-how-much-isk-hes-losing-because-of-the-ess-change/283881 "2020-12-06T07:26:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-one-ever-mentions-how-much-isk-hes-losing-because-of-the-ess-change/283881/21 "2020-12-06T12:53:22Z")
And, to be absolutely clear on this … When no one contests the ESS, after two hours they get the other 30 million ISK? > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > It led me to wonder what they did with the years of 70m ticks before that. They’ll have plenty of reasons they can tell us … … but not one of them will be RMT. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > because the pile is never big enough. It’s extremely unlikely that anyone who plays in null to form for ISK has _any_ plans at all. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 12:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-one-ever-mentions-how-much-isk-hes-losing-because-of-the-ess-change/283881/22 "2020-12-06T12:54:10Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > When no one contests the ESS, after two hours they get the other 30 million ISK? As far as I am aware but I am happy to stand corrected. Edit: and as I did need to clarify, this was before the most recent changes to timer and % ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 12:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-one-ever-mentions-how-much-isk-hes-losing-because-of-the-ess-change/283881/23 "2020-12-06T12:55:46Z")
Btw, isn’t it funny how this thread is being ignored by all these greedy fucks? > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Edit: and as I did need to clarify, this was before the most recent changes to timer and % Ah, so it’s more than 40 million as a base pay. It feels like everyone complaining is likely an RMTer. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 12:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-one-ever-mentions-how-much-isk-hes-losing-because-of-the-ess-change/283881/24 "2020-12-06T12:56:18Z")
Maybe they are too busy self destructing their drone boats for insurance ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-one-ever-mentions-how-much-isk-hes-losing-because-of-the-ess-change/283881/25 "2020-12-06T13:51:57Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > It’s for the record. The starting amount for DBS was %115. The people I talk to say on average its down to about 75% with no PvP to keep ADM’s at military 4. With no losses due to the ESS, its a %25 reduction, but still half of what the maximum payout is. To keep ADM’s at military 5, the drop is down to the low %60’s. Many are ratting in the frigate heavy sites just to raise the index hewer, with what used to be a 18-20 million ISK tick dropping to 8-10. Interestingly, this means the ESS usually only have a few million ISK in them, and none of the roaming gangs are interested in waiting 5 minutes to steal it. Another told me a red did do a steal and got 320,000 ISK for their 5 minutes of labour. Sounds like its working out as expected. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 2:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-one-ever-mentions-how-much-isk-hes-losing-because-of-the-ess-change/283881/26 "2020-12-06T14:25:54Z")
I wish I understood your obviously well meant post, but it’s actually confusing me. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > With no losses due to the ESS, its a %25 reduction, but still half of what the maximum payout is. To keep ADM’s at military 5, the drop is down to the low %60’s. This makes no sense to me. It’s like you’re using a different jargon. … So you’re saying the _raw income_ at ADM 4, without ESS, dropped to 8-10 million ISK per tick? ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 3:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-one-ever-mentions-how-much-isk-hes-losing-because-of-the-ess-change/283881/27 "2020-12-06T15:52:05Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > Btw, isn’t it funny how this thread is being ignored by all these greedy fucks? You have some weird biases. You ask a question that you don’t really know the entire issues surrounding it (how ratting income is generated in Null, indicated by your confusion on Litsea’s answer), you pre-judge anyone who has the knowledge and experience to answer it as greedy fucks, and then you judge them further for not taking the time to answer and educate you. If you asked traders “tell me the details of how your trading profit is affected by new fees you greedy fucks” they probably won’t answer that either. You’re not even on the beam with calling them greedy. There are levels of the game which require literally hundreds of billions of ISK if you’re going to fly “ships you can afford to lose”. Those billions need to come from somewhere. People play the game that CCP has designed for maximum return. It’s something that happens in all games, it’s a facet of human nature. It’s foolish to blame people for getting the most they can out of something. If you’re going to call someone greedy fucks, call CCP that for designing the game that way to sucker a bunch of whales into subbing 6 accounts so they can max-farm Null with their 20,000 alliance buddies and all fly supercaps. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 4:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-one-ever-mentions-how-much-isk-hes-losing-because-of-the-ess-change/283881/28 "2020-12-06T16:19:44Z")
Okay. I didn’t write “greedy fucks” in my initial post. There’s always people who only read the first post and jump to an answer. I wrote “greedy fucks” in post #23. There was lots of time for someone to respond and the reason, why no one did, definitely wasn’t because I was writing “greedy fucks”. It’s also not comparable to trading, because people would absolutely not give away their secrets … … because it would affect their income … … but there’s nothing to lose from telling someone else how much money he makes in null. CCP/Hilmar being greedy … idk. On one hand all bigger companies are greedy … … on the other hand, if they were _truly_ greedy, this game would have turned into WoW long ago. Can you try that again? ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 5:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-one-ever-mentions-how-much-isk-hes-losing-because-of-the-ess-change/283881/29 "2020-12-06T17:47:53Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > Now instead of jumping to the conclusion that it’s not ever being mentioned _deliberately_ … > … because it might make them look greedy as ■■■■ … Feel free to provide a reason why anyone would educate you on a topic that you start off with a biased judgement like this on. I mean, I’m fine with reducing income in Null, even though excess income and wealth is not the actual problem that everyone knee-jerk responds to it as. But you aren’t really asking for information here, so it’s no surprise you don’t get it. You’re just veiling an attack as a question. ---
**Author:** ![Red-Sonja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/red-sonja/32/254178_2.png) [@Red-Sonja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Red-Sonja)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-one-ever-mentions-how-much-isk-hes-losing-because-of-the-ess-change/283881/30 "2020-12-06T19:34:12Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > How much ISK did someone farm before the ESS-change … > … and how much ISK does someone farm _after_ the ESS-change? ESS… had to look it up,lol. Thought you were talking about resources changes. I guess you got my answer on ISK related to ESS now 😄 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-one-ever-mentions-how-much-isk-hes-losing-because-of-the-ess-change/283881/31 "2020-12-06T19:35:12Z")
Sorry, Ill bite. Why are you talking about mining? ---
**Author:** ![Red-Sonja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/red-sonja/32/254178_2.png) [@Red-Sonja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Red-Sonja)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 7:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-one-ever-mentions-how-much-isk-hes-losing-because-of-the-ess-change/283881/32 "2020-12-06T19:43:16Z")
Why are you replying to me ? 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 7:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-one-ever-mentions-how-much-isk-hes-losing-because-of-the-ess-change/283881/33 "2020-12-06T19:49:49Z")
Because you seemed confused in your reply to Sol pre-edit ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 7:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-one-ever-mentions-how-much-isk-hes-losing-because-of-the-ess-change/283881/34 "2020-12-06T19:49:55Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > But you aren’t really asking for information here, so it’s no surprise you don’t get it. You’re just veiling an attack as a question. Actually I got it, but … okay. To be fair, I can’t fully trust the response … … but it’s all just a matter of time anyway. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Why do you have hay? > [@Red-Sonja](#): > > And why are you wearing a mask? You two. Get a room. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 7:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-one-ever-mentions-how-much-isk-hes-losing-because-of-the-ess-change/283881/35 "2020-12-06T19:50:37Z")
Never ---
**Author:** ![Red-Sonja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/red-sonja/32/254178_2.png) [@Red-Sonja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Red-Sonja)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 7:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-one-ever-mentions-how-much-isk-hes-losing-because-of-the-ess-change/283881/36 "2020-12-06T19:54:12Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > You two. > Get a room I was replying to you. I have no idea why that individual felt the need to address me in any way. I got a room with someone else already and I don’t do ménage à trois 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 8:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-one-ever-mentions-how-much-isk-hes-losing-because-of-the-ess-change/283881/37 "2020-12-06T20:00:12Z")
> [@Red-Sonja](#): > > I have no idea why that individual felt the need to address me in any way. Ill do what I like, cupcake. If it annoys you, all the better, with that attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Red-Sonja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/red-sonja/32/254178_2.png) [@Red-Sonja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Red-Sonja)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-one-ever-mentions-how-much-isk-hes-losing-because-of-the-ess-change/283881/38 "2020-12-06T22:08:29Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > If it annoys you, all the better, with that attitude. I better leave you to your delusional world, cupcake. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 10:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-one-ever-mentions-how-much-isk-hes-losing-because-of-the-ess-change/283881/39 "2020-12-06T22:09:00Z")
Good luck with that ESS Mining and POS mining, slugger ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 4:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-one-ever-mentions-how-much-isk-hes-losing-because-of-the-ess-change/283881/40 "2020-12-07T04:38:43Z")
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