# No relaxed Mining = Many less players? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 26, 2019, 2:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478 "2019-09-26T14:50:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/83 "2019-09-28T15:07:14Z")
hmmm, Cant help but see and agree with Teckos arguments here. For me, when i go mining, if i go mining I usually have to multibox, and there are times im semi-afk as well but never far from computer nor in a position where i can not see the screen or hear sounds. Multi-boxing a mining fleet pisses me off though, when i see miners that A.) complain about certain mineral resources. B.) complain about ore or mineral prices. **or others** A.) complain about ship prices B.) complain about fuel prices. C.) complain about PLEX. Personally im to the point i dont want to look at another rock ever again, but if blues dont want to do mining Ops, or their buy back programs are so garbage their players are leaving in droves I dont have many choices. Personally, if a player is AFK or semi-afk mining but not botting…cool fine by me they know the risks and they are paying CCP cash one way or another. But if someone is complaining about Semi-Afk miners or Multi-boxers then that someone needs to STFU get in a fitted barge/exhumer and start mining themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abruzzi_oskold/32/279259_2.png) [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abruzzi_Oskold)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/84 "2019-09-28T15:11:39Z")
> [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > when i see miners that, complain They are almost as bad as the Pvpers that complain. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 6:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/85 "2019-09-28T18:01:42Z")
> [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > But if someone is complaining about Semi-Afk miners or Multi-boxers then that someone needs to STFU get in a fitted barge/exhumer and start mining themselves. No one is complaining in this thread but the OP, and perhaps a sympathizer or two. CCP made a change that disproportionately impacted “low-attention” gameplay in highsec, like AFK, semi-AFK, and multibox mining. I think we can say they intentionally nerfed this gameplay by adding roaming NPCs, and while we may need to speculate some on why they may have chosen to do so, it is pretty obvious. Massively multiboxed mining fleets completely circumvent the basic game design of Eve Online. Eve is designed to be quite flat in power difference between a new player and a max-skilled veteran. Yet a veteran with their 12 barges does an end-around this basic design and completely outclasses a newbro by an order of magnitude! These fleets take the ore first (granted, for most types of ore this isn’t an issue in highsec, but it is for ice), they depress mineral prices, and they consume 12-single boxer’s worth of PLEX to fuel these accounts of one player. This is bad on all fronts. Basically, these multiboxers exploit the “relaxed” space that is highsec to massively scale their attention/clicks in ways that is detrimental to the game. Making single player ‘effort’ more valuable is one of the stated goals of the Age of Chaos and part of CCP’s direction for the game. Making it harder to AFK or multibox mining in highsec by introducing roaming uber-NPCs is almost certainly part of that. People _can_ come here and cry here how everyone else should accept their preferred “low-attention” game play as some protected game style that can’t be infringed on for some special snowflake reason, or you know, they could just HTFU and adapt to the game as it is. Thrashing about on these forums trying to convince us that you have some right to “play” the game while you do your real-world work on another screen isn’t going to generate much sympathy, at least with me. Multiboxing is still legal though. AFK mining is still legal. If you can manage a large number of accounts in the face of these more deadly NPCs, or still mine safely while you watch Netflix or do paid work for your employer, then more power to you. No one is complaining about that. But citing the fact that you can’t handle as many accounts now, or mine while you wash your car, as some sort of reason why a game change should be reverted is asinine. Get good, or just get out. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/86 "2019-09-28T18:04:41Z")
> [@Inactive\_Seller](#): > > More people in Ultima Online than here, now. More people eat at McDonalds than a world class restaurant as well. Doesn’t make it better. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/87 "2019-09-28T18:58:58Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Set ice mining going. Walk away for 15 minute intervals, come back. > Set drones going, come back. > > Neither are botting, Technically, this is a form of botting known as bot aspirancy. ---
**Author:** ![Compo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/compo/32/167680_2.png) [@Compo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Compo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/88 "2019-09-28T19:37:57Z")
in Elite you set charges and blow up the roid then use a deep core laser to extract ore then use limpets “drones” to pick up ore that way you can not AFK mine and actually makes mining a little bit more interesting, you also have to be careful not to get to close to the roid as our ship takes on damage from the freshly blowded up roid ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/89 "2019-09-28T19:45:15Z")
Yes there is. It’s called Orcas. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/90 "2019-09-28T19:51:00Z")
I’ve dealt with T for years. He can be safely ignored. All he does is twist people’s words, as you’ve just experienced. ---
**Author:** ![Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abruzzi_oskold/32/279259_2.png) [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abruzzi_Oskold)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/91 "2019-09-28T20:01:33Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > > > Set ice mining going. Walk away for 15 minute intervals, come back. > > Set drones going, come back. > > > > Neither are botting, > > Technically, this is a form of botting known as bot aspirancy. You should pre-face such made up BS and propaganda with, “I made this up”, or “my group made this up”. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/92 "2019-09-28T20:44:15Z")
> [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > You’re the confused one. Stop projecting your own issues upon everybody else. ---
**Author:** ![Inactive\_Seller](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/inactive_seller/32/424362_2.png) [@Inactive\_Seller](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Inactive_Seller)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/93 "2019-09-28T23:22:20Z")
> [@Compo](#): > > in Elite you set charges and blow up the roid then use a deep core laser to extract ore I am very bad to take off in Elite. Already have the game in my PC and Xbox One. When i can manage the take off, probably chnage games ---
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 1:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/94 "2019-09-29T01:27:29Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Did you read the comment where he said he had that many accounts in part for cynos and PI? Yes, that is alot of accounts, but from the sounds of it he was not generally logging all 12 in at once. Okay, that’s fair. I guess I was still in shock over him having enough free cash to have a dozen Omega accounts. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > I go AFK all the time while “playing” I’ll dock up and go make dinner, run an errand, or just focus on getting some work done while keeping my industry alts logged in in station while jobs run. It does virtually nothing negative to the game. Huh. Okay, that’s fair. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > You are pushing a load of horseshit here. No, I just didn’t consider someone playing AFK while docked. Whenever I think of someone playing AFK my mind conjures up the image of someone warping a dozen high-end mining ships into a belt and then walking away for half an hour while they suck up all the best ore. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > What harm does a player who is AFK pose? Is he gathering resources? Generally no. Many are docked up. Even if they are in a belt and the person has gone AFK they are taking a risk…so who cares. Leave it to CODE. or go blow them up yourself. And if they are AFK they’ll soon stop gathering resources once their hold fills up and the lasers shut off. > > This kind of false equivalency and then talking about driving people from the game is idiotic. Okay, from what you describe it sounds like there are ways of playing AFK that _aren’t_ actively harmful to the game (such as PI) which I had failed to consider. Thank you for telling me about this. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > These rats would have little NS players. They’d deal with the problem because they have the logistical, institutional and cultural depth to do so. HS players on the other hand lack, severely, those things. I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to say here. Could you rephrase it? I might understand it then. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > That’s the problem with HS. It isn’t the place where a solid and competent corp is going to emerge and stay, generally speaking. Once a corp reaches a certain point in terms of those three areas, they move on to better pastures. > > HS is where many of the players want to log in, do their thing, maybe chat with friends in game and not have to worry about dealing with life in NS/WH or to a lesser extent LS. It will never be organized or do anything like you see coming from NS or WHs. It will forever remain a great big herd of cats with no herdsman. I haven’t really seen that, but most of my highsec experience has been with E-Uni, and they’re generally pretty competent at running things. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 1:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/95 "2019-09-29T01:34:26Z")
TLDR. ---
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 1:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/96 "2019-09-29T01:35:14Z")
Think I should chop it up? ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 1:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/97 "2019-09-29T01:35:28Z")
It’s too long. Nobody will read that. ---
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 1:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/98 "2019-09-29T01:36:19Z")
[looks up] …yeah, now that you mention it, that _is_ too long. Give me a minute. Edit: Fixed. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Nice Strawman there. > He was clearly talking about people who are doing afk resource gathering. Not people docked up afk. Yeah, this. Though I think he misunderstood what I meant instead of posting a strawman. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > How exactly does one do that without botting? By putting a mining barge in a belt, turning on the strip miners, and then walking away. It’s not like they need constant supervision to do their job. > [@Inactive\_Seller](#): > > Working as owner of my own software business, I am the type of people who have 8 PC in home becuse they are refunded by IRS, and as no tobacco, licquor, and beer, i have many income available to me and my wife. As someone who also abstains from alcohol and smoking, I’m looking forward to the day I can live like you.😁 > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > So rather than many players behaving like npc’s, we have fewer players behaving like players. I think the latter provides a better experience in a game such as eve where social interaction is hugely important. Honestly, I wouldn’t mind NPCs getting smarter, either. It would make it much more fun to do ratting. > [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](#): > > I actually enjoyed ice mining about 12 years ago when I got real busy IRL. > > It was kind of relaxing to wind down from a long day at times. This is also true, though I find it better to mine with people you can talk to over chat. Let’s face it, mining isn’t very fun. > [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > there are times im semi-afk as well but never far from computer nor in a position where i can not see the screen or hear sounds. I do that too, I don’t really see a problem with it. Life just interrupts sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 1:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/99 "2019-09-29T01:37:37Z")
> [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > Personally im to the point i dont want to look at another rock ever again, but if blues dont want to do mining Ops, or their buy back programs are so garbage their players are leaving in droves I dont have many choices. You sound like you’re miserable. Maybe you should take a break or stop carrying all the industry load for what sounds to me like a bunch of inconsiderate jerks. > [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](#): > > They are almost as bad as the Pvpers that complain. People who complain about someone having fun by means the complainer doesn’t personally enjoy are profoundly aggravating to me. I feel like [Jim Sterling’s video about people who ■■■■■ over difficulty levels](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIWivb-8C1w) is applicable here, even though MMOs are naturally going to play differently than single-player games. If someone is playing the game that you, personally, do not enjoy, then _what’s so wrong about that?!_ Seriously, if we weren’t meant to do mining, missioning, roleplaying, PI, ganking, piracy, or _anything else in EvE_, then the mechanics and support for them just _wouldn’t exist!_ As long as players are willing to accept the risks that come with any particular type of gameplay, then I _really_ don’t see the problem! > [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > Multiboxing is still legal though. AFK mining is still legal. If you can manage a large number of accounts in the face of these more deadly NPCs, or still mine safely while you watch Netflix or do paid work for your employer, then more power to you. No one is complaining about that. But citing the fact that you can’t handle as many accounts now, or mine while you wash your car, as some sort of reason why a game change should be reverted is asinine. You know, reading your post made me think. If someone did multibox AFK mining, and upon coming back to see their ships destroyed just went “Well that sucks, but I knew the risks.”…is that really a bad thing? If EvE’s core premise involves accepting the risks and consequences of your style of gameplay, is the proverbial unicorn of an AFK miner who accepts the risk of coming back to see all his ships reduced to shrapnel really bad for the game? > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Technically, this is a form of botting known as bot aspirancy. If someone is driving at _exactly_ the speed limit that doesn’t mean they’re speeding. Words mean things, and in order to be botting you have to actually, you know, _use_ a botting program. ---
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 1:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/100 "2019-09-29T01:40:07Z")
> [@Compo](#): > > in Elite you set charges and blow up the roid then use a deep core laser to extract ore then use limpets “drones” to pick up ore that way you can not AFK mine and actually makes mining a little bit more interesting, you also have to be careful not to get to close to the roid as our ship takes on damage from the freshly blowded up roid Yeah, I play Elite: Dangerous too. I know how to do deep core mining, and while I certainly think the mechanics could use work (like perpetual limpet suicides) it’s certainly more involved and fun to do than what we have in EvE. > [@Xuixien](#): > > Yes there is. It’s called Orcas. Speaking of which, what is your opinion of making industrial command ships like the Orca more hands-on with their fleet assistance mechanics. I don’t know if it’s even possible, but I’d like to see if there’s a way to have the person controlling one actively managing the bonuses to their fleet in a way that prevents botting and AFK mining while also rewarding the player for getting good at it. > [@Xuixien](#): > > I’ve dealt with T for years. He can be safely ignored. All he does is twist people’s words, as you’ve just experienced. Maybe, maybe not. It sounds like he just misunderstood what I meant, and that’s happened to me several times due to my chronic issues with clearly articulating my posts. I’ll type things without giving enough details or context while thinking that whoever reads it will effortlessly understand what I meant. They don’t, and it’s a painful gaffe that I’ve been dealing with for years. > [@Inactive\_Seller](#): > > I am very bad to take off in Elite. Already have the game in my PC and Xbox One. When i can manage the take off, probably chnage games You think that’s bad? You should see me trying to nab a chunk of ore that’s roughly the size of a basketball while keeping my Anaconda from pasting itself against an asteroid, which is compounded by said ship maneuvering like a drunken space whale due to being roughly the size of the USS Arizona. Thankfully, Void Opals are worth enough to make the frustration pay off in spades. ---
**Author:** ![Inactive\_Seller](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/inactive_seller/32/424362_2.png) [@Inactive\_Seller](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Inactive_Seller)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 2:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/101 "2019-09-29T02:50:40Z")
> [@Valiran\_Teleros](#): > > You think that’s bad? You should see me trying to nab a chunk of ore that’s roughly the size of a basketball while keeping my Anaconda from pasting itself against an asteroid, which is compounded by said ship maneuvering like a drunken space whale due to being roughly the size of the USS Arizona. > > Thankfully, Void Opals are worth enough to make the frustration pay off in spades. Maybe i am the only person capable to crash in Microsoft Flight Simulator 5 Before take off. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 6:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/102 "2019-09-29T06:58:31Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Why can’t this be a good thing? Players getting better rewards for their time and effort in game vs botters and afk players getting less rewards for no-time low-effort activity. Because it also means other players are paying more. Players both harvest and sell and buy and consume resources in game. A higher price for you while selling means a higher price for someone buying, or maybe both a higher price for you selling and buying. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > But there are still players yes? Quite a few less. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > And those players are less likely to be bots or afk yes? Why is AFK a problem? If they are in space and AFK…shoot them and show them error of their ways, if they are docked…who cares? > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > So how inattentive and untanked do you have to be to die to trigs? Because it seems you have to be fully afk and/or tanked like a wet paper bag. According to a friend he died in a tanked skiff and he was not AFK, he thought he could take the rats. They chewed up his drones and had him scrammed and they ate through his tank. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > You’re correct there is risk. However before trigs the risk was very low-borderline non-existent. Orcas can go afk for hours in hisec (and itl looks like they were in moon belts). Why not change orcas then? Why implement a change that also imposes a burden on players who are not in an orca? If it is one ship that is the problem…change the fecking ship. > [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > CCP made a change that disproportionately impacted “low-attention” gameplay in highsec, like AFK, semi-AFK, and multibox mining. I think we can say they intentionally nerfed this gameplay by adding roaming NPCs, and while we may need to speculate some on why they may have chosen to do so, it is pretty obvious. > > Massively multiboxed mining fleets… Stop right there. This also affects the guy in a skiff. Not a guy running 30 accounts and cleaning out a belt in a few minutes. > [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > Eve is designed to be quite flat in power difference between a new player and a max-skilled veteran. Yet a veteran with their 12 barges does an end-around this basic design and completely outclasses a newbro by an order of magnitude! Uhhmmm wat? The veteran has 12 accounts…why can’t a new player? Isn’t that a function of one’s RL wallet? CCP even made it so that a new player can end-run around SP too. > [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > These fleets take the ore first (granted, for most types of ore this isn’t an issue in highsec, but it is for ice), they depress mineral prices, and they consume 12-single boxer’s worth of PLEX to fuel these accounts of one player. So? You want to eat your cake here and have it too. Low prices are bad, high prices are good. Neither is good nor bad. Lower mineral prices lowers the cost of T1 ships and modules for the very same new players you are worried about. And talk about a shitty business model. Lets drive out 12 accounts for everyone we save. Yep, that’s not going to have some serious problems in the near future. > [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > Making single player ‘effort’ more valuable is one of the stated goals of the Age of Chaos and part of CCP’s direction for the game. This burden is shared by single players and multi-boxers alike. This is not working like you claim it is. In fact, a multi-boxer in HS might be better able to adapt leaving the single player screwed. Pedro, your line of argument and logic here is just…awful. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Set ice mining going. Walk away for 15 minute intervals, come back. > Set drones going, come back. > > Neither are botting, both are afk. Neither adds any connections of note between players. > > You aren’t dumb, quit acting it. That isn’t AFK that is semi-AFK. Not paying 100% attention to what is going on in game. That is as old as the game. Want a truly AFK gathering of resources? Buy orders. Hell one doesn’t even have to be logged in AFK and acquire resources. > [@Valiran\_Teleros](#): > > Okay, from what you describe it sounds like there are ways of playing AFK that _aren’t_ actively harmful to the game (such as PI) which I had failed to consider. Thank you for telling me about this. Thanks, that is another method of gathering resources _ **where the player is not eve ■■■■■■■ logged in.** _ Should you “gradually leave the game”? No. > [@Valiran\_Teleros](#): > > I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to say here. Could you rephrase it? I might understand it then. NS empires are built around a group of players united by a set of goals. Hold space, defend that space, build up an infrastructure to help hold and defend the space, but also make it easier to exploit the vast riches of that space. There are agreed upon rules, a hierarchy, a method of resolving conflicts among players, etc. All that is totally absent from HS corporations and alliances IMO. They are like a herd of cats without anyone really herding them. And if they do start to organize and become more and more effective…why stay in HS where the rewards to such organization and structure are so low relative to say NS or w-space? So HS is perpetually a group of disorganized players who have almost no way of doing anything at all as a group or even sub-groups. > [@Valiran\_Teleros](#): > > I haven’t really seen that, but most of my highsec experience has been with E-Uni, and they’re generally pretty competent at running things. They are one of the few exceptions. They have a mission and are pretty good at organization. But aside from them and a few others they have no way of working cohesively. > [@Valiran\_Teleros](#): > > By putting a mining barge in a belt, turning on the strip miners, and then walking away. It’s not like they need constant supervision to do their job. That barge is going to fill up sooner or later. And leaving a barge un-attended in as HS belt is a risky thing. > [@Valiran\_Teleros](#): > > I do that too, I don’t really see a problem with it. Life just interrupts sometimes. And then the truth emerges…look everyone who “plays AFK”…the irony. 😛 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478.md?page=6)