# No relaxed Mining = Many less players? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 26, 2019, 2:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478 "2019-09-26T14:50:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 7:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/103 "2019-09-29T07:05:29Z")
The idea that “higher prices” are an unmitigated “good thing” is economic ignorance on stilts. Can we please dispense with that nonsense? ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 7:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/104 "2019-09-29T07:08:30Z")
> **[Invading Precursor Entities | Group](https://zkillboard.com/group/4028/page/2/)** > > Invading Precursor Entities: 27,835 ships destroyed and 0 ships lost. Looking for those 30 man multi-boxing fleets and funny…just not seeing any. 🤔 Oh…wait…here we go. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/7/c/7ce7a39291f56fbb0fe586b5b773ded867f3ca14.png) Massive multi-boxing fleet. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 11:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/105 "2019-09-29T11:29:18Z")
> [@Valiran\_Teleros](#): > > Thank you for telling me about this. > > ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/8/c/8c2c4c1e2138528f3d312a48aba7710b4abe6e29.jpeg) Teckos\_Pech: > > > These rats would have little NS players. They’d deal with the problem because they have the logistical, institutional and cultural depth to do so. HS players on the other hand lack, severely, those things. > > I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to say here. Could you rephrase it? I might understand it then. Keep in mind that you guys are arguing with one of Goonswarms mouthpieces about the activities that support everything Goonswarm does. Without multi-boxing and AFK/semi-AFK mining/ratting they’d be dead in the water. Pretty much every time Teckos puts on his “I’m a pretend economist” hat and starts arguing, it’s to say that “the economy is fine, nothing is happening here, all the activity in Null is completely normal and harmless, we’re just really organized well. Other bots are bad but our Goonbots are good and nothing should change.” ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 1:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/106 "2019-09-29T13:28:37Z")
> [@Valiran\_Teleros](#): > > Speaking of which, what is your opinion of making industrial command ships like the Orca more hands-on with their fleet assistance mechanics. I don’t know if it’s even possible, but I’d like to see if there’s a way to have the person controlling one actively managing the bonuses to their fleet in a way that prevents botting and AFK mining while also rewarding the player for getting good at it. I mean, I’m all about making mining and really all PvE in general more engaging and active. [I made a great suggestion, but people just got butthurt about it.](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mining-overhaul-actively-engaging/188503). Not sure what to do about industrial command ships. Obviously an Orca mining AFK for 6 hours isn’t ideal or healthy for the game. Maybe turn off the ability for drones to automatically repeat the mining command? ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 1:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/107 "2019-09-29T13:55:59Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Because it also means other players are paying more. Players both harvest and sell and buy and consume resources in game. A higher price for you while selling means a higher price for someone buying, or maybe both a higher price for you selling and buying. How is that a bad thing? In our current situation things are very cheap. The market is saturated and the margin on many items is very small and even negative on some items. Having fewer materials and production will alleviate that, increase the bid/ask spread and allow more opportunity. Again, the players who’d earn less are the ones that are over farming. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Quite a few less. In null because of blackout. The trigs aren’t having quite as devastating effect on high sec. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Why is AFK a problem? If they are in space and AFK…shoot them and show them error of their ways, if they are docked…who cares? Low effort, low attention, low interaction. If it becomes widespread, which it has imo, it demonstrates that wealth generation is too easy and too safe. Hence the introduction of trigs and blackout. It also doesn’t make for a very living, breathing player driven environment if afk play is the norm. It is not an intereting or engaging experience to fly through system after system of afk players. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > According to a friend he died in a tanked skiff and he was not AFK, he thought he could take the rats. They chewed up his drones and had him scrammed and they ate through his tank. Are we talking recons or an invasion system? An invasion system is like an incursion. Big massive warning signs when you enter system, dark atmosphere, system effects, killer roaming gangs etc. Recons are a few frigs that warp around any system and attack randomly, but are really quite tame in comparison. My orca usually kills them before they get in range. I’m inclined to think your friend encountered the former. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Why not change orcas then? Wish i could. I’ve already asked a hundred times. I wish ccp did change the orca and then the problem wouldn’t nearly be so bad in hi-sec. I’d also rather ccp let the players do the purging ourselves. This over farming (in hi-sec) is after all a result of pvp nerfs. However it may be because trigs are easy to control. Players aren’t. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > The idea that “higher prices” are an unmitigated “good thing” is economic ignorance on stilts. Can we please dispense with that nonsense? It depends what your goal is or what you consider healthy. Like you said before, strictly speaking there is no wrong price for something. However, if your goal was to allow there to be greater profit margins for ships, higher prices is better. If your goal was to give active miners better pay over afk miners, then this is good. It’s far from nonsense. The goal is to reward active play and tackle over farming. From the latest minutes: > **Merkelchen** says that it seems the era of chaos is brutalizing the sheep in EVE and **CCP Rise** says that was kind of the goal of the whole thing, because farming and faucet was getting too high. ---
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/108 "2019-09-29T17:31:34Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > NS empires are built around a group of players united by a set of goals. Hold space, defend that space, build up an infrastructure to help hold and defend the space, but also make it easier to exploit the vast riches of that space. There are agreed upon rules, a hierarchy, a method of resolving conflicts among players, etc. All that is totally absent from HS corporations and alliances IMO. They are like a herd of cats without anyone really herding them. And if they do start to organize and become more and more effective…why stay in HS where the rewards to such organization and structure are so low relative to say NS or w-space? So HS is perpetually a group of disorganized players who have almost no way of doing anything at all as a group or even sub-groups. Hmm. Well, I haven’t been playing long enough to get a broad look at the differences between HS and NS alliances, but I can see how this might be the case. Just one more thing I’ll have to learn. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > That barge is going to fill up sooner or later. And leaving a barge un-attended in as HS belt is a risky thing. Yeah, and upon further consideration I’d say that someone leaving a barge unattended is alright, provided the owner accepts that it’s a risky thing to do and doesn’t complain when it is eventually blown up. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > And then the truth emerges…look everyone who “plays AFK”…the irony. 😛 There are players who sets their mining ship on an asteroid and then walk away, expecting to come back in 10-30 minutes with the hold full of valuable ore. Then there are players who stay at their keyboards when out in space unless something interrupts them, like the need to use the restroom. I’m one of the latter. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Keep in mind that you guys are arguing with one of Goonswarms mouthpieces about the activities that support everything Goonswarm does. Without multi-boxing and AFK/semi-AFK mining/ratting they’d be dead in the water. > > Pretty much every time Teckos puts on his “I’m a pretend economist” hat and starts arguing, it’s to say that “the economy is fine, nothing is happening here, all the activity in Null is completely normal and harmless, we’re just really organized well. Other bots are bad but our Goonbots are good and nothing should change.” Well, it’s not like I’ve interacted with anyone on these forums often enough to know what they’re like, so I make a point to err on the side of being earnest with everyone. Also, meaning no offense to you or anyone else; I’m well aware that propaganda efforts are a part of every entrenched group in this game, so every time someone tells me what another poster is like I take their words with a grain of salt. > [@Xuixien](#): > > I mean, I’m all about making mining and really all PvE in general more engaging and active. [I made a great suggestion, but people just got butthurt about it.](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mining-overhaul-actively-engaging/188503). > > Not sure what to do about industrial command ships. Obviously an Orca mining AFK for 6 hours isn’t ideal or healthy for the game. Maybe turn off the ability for drones to automatically repeat the mining command? Yeah, I saw that thread. I don’t necessarily agree with everything in there, but some of the ideas seemed pretty good to me. What did you think of [my excavator drone idea, BTW](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/67)? I think it might actually be a better mechanic for mining drones in general than what we have now, but I’m worried that it might be impossible to implement at all. ---
**Author:** ![Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abruzzi_oskold/32/279259_2.png) [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abruzzi_Oskold)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/109 "2019-09-29T17:51:18Z")
> [@Valiran\_Teleros](#): > > This is also true, though I find it better to mine with people you can talk to over chat. Let’s face it, mining isn’t very fun. You don’t have to be in fleet with someone to talk to them over chat. Not everything in this game should be forcing you to form up. Solo game-play in a MMO is not always a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Agondray](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/agondray/32/414989_2.png) [@Agondray](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Agondray)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/110 "2019-09-29T18:02:02Z")
> [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](#): > > Solo game-play in a MMO is not always a bad thing. yeah but solo game play is everywhere in eve now. Ive watched 1 guy run a group of alts and destroy another fleet, no one wants to fleet for any pve activity unless they absolutely have too when they can just solo or log on their army of alts. ---
**Author:** ![Ravid\_Bheskagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ravid_bheskagor/32/472687_2.png) [@Ravid\_Bheskagor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ravid_Bheskagor)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 12:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/111 "2019-09-30T12:19:26Z")
EVE is a multiplayer game. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 8:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/112 "2019-10-05T08:45:40Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > How is that a bad thing? In our current situation things are very cheap. The market is saturated and the margin on many items is very small and even negative on some items. Cheap is good for those buying. Higher prices is actually a bad thing, generally speaking. Nobody goes out and says, “Make it so I have to pay more to buy stuff!!!” Sheesh… > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Low effort, low attention, low interaction. So what. The true irony here is you are now contradicting yourself where you argued precisely the opposite in terms of AFK cloaking. Hypocrisy thy name is @Daichi_Yamato. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Are we talking recons or an invasion system? IDK, I rarely mine and if I do it is in NS where this is not a problem. The point is in looking at the kills I don’t see these massive multi-boxing fleets being taken out. I see solo players. The primary argument looks like total made up ■■■■■■■■. I expected better. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Wish i could. I’ve already asked a hundred times. I wish ccp did change the orca and then the problem wouldn’t nearly be so bad in hi-sec. You are missing the point. If the Orca is the problem change that. Saying it is okay to screw over players in barges, exhumers and even ratters in HS because of Orcas is just stupid. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > It depends what your goal is or what you consider healthy. Like you said before, strictly speaking there is no wrong price for something. No. It is economic ignorance on stilts. Stop pretending otherwise. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > > **Merkelchen** says that it seems the era of chaos is brutalizing the sheep in EVE and **CCP Rise** says that was kind of the goal of the whole thing, because farming and faucet was getting too high. Then they are blinkered morons. The money supply is collapsing. ISK velocity is down. All price indices are down. Transaction taxes are down. The economy is shrinking and we could be heading into a deflation. Rise and the rest are talking out of their bungholes and don’t understand rudimentary economics. I really was hoping better from your posts…this is just…nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 8:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/113 "2019-10-05T08:47:28Z")
> [@Valiran\_Teleros](#): > > There are players who sets their mining ship on an asteroid and then walk away, expecting to come back in 10-30 minutes with the hold full of valuable ore. Then there are players who stay at their keyboards when out in space unless something interrupts them, like the need to use the restroom. I’m one of the latter. Then join CODE. and shoot them. Or just shoot them yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 5:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/114 "2019-10-05T17:00:56Z")
If you don’t feel like joining CODE., you can always send a billion isk to any CODE. agent and know that you are making a positive difference. ---
**Author:** ![Compo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/compo/32/167680_2.png) [@Compo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Compo)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/115 "2019-10-05T20:33:27Z")
![multybox](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/c/4/c4bc80a48d3b2a026feefef4e553a8850eb24ee5.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 9:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/116 "2019-10-05T21:28:58Z")
Is that…no, that’s not real. It _can’t_ be. ---
**Author:** ![Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abruzzi_oskold/32/279259_2.png) [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abruzzi_Oskold)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 6:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/117 "2019-10-06T06:42:29Z")
I think the topic of this thread and the question “why Eve is in such trouble” might be related. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 6:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/118 "2019-10-06T06:53:22Z")
Just so you know… Teckos is a _real_ economist. Unlike those who call others “pretend”, who just project themselves onto everyone else. Also, you should try mining other people’s roids. You’ll notice when they’re actually just on a timer and as soon as they start losing a few roids of income, they’ll start staying at the keyboard. Had that plenty of times. Mining the roid someone else is mining already is fun and pulls them from their afkness! 🙂 Competitive Mining, who would have thought? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 8:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/119 "2019-10-06T08:11:04Z")
> [@Inactive\_Seller](#): > > At the moment no sense to mining in HIGH high sec. Why would there be ore belts then and moons with mining structures then? “If you undock you consent to encounter other players mine AFK!” Does that expression seem smart? Do you think the moon mining was over the top or do you think casual miners should not AFK and limit the game to (much less) professional players? It’s important to fix causes not the results of the causes. @Nana_Skalski Could you give an example of making mining more fun? People always come with awesome expressions of “Make it more fun” then give examples like “Introduce Captches”… do you see the issue here, arethere any games where revies say “Awesome game, 5/5 the captchas are very immersive and interesting, definately reccomend!” @Black_Pedro You are against bots, just like everyone as they tend to lead to RMT. Multiboxing is a whole other thing that is a direct result of the “trust no one” rule. People just tend to do all chores themselves to avoid having friends slave for them doing repetitive tasks for low reward. Moon mining can be botted or afk mined too so I am completely puzzeled how you praise this as the solution to the above mentioned problems. @Tipa_Riot If 12 omega accounts is the RESULT of the LOW PLAYER issue you could solve it by bringing more real humans in but instead you are whining on teh forums that the temporary solution isn’t good and tell him to stop that so “player numbers” would dwindle more, please elaborate on how this is helping? @Kezrai_Charzai Relaxed (afk) mining and multiboxing existed back in 2008. Just get real humans in by stopping to complain on the forums and get new people in. @Karak_Terrel He has PI alts because he has a space business that needs to run, if some of his alts would go on a holiday or quit how is his business going to work then? ANd who is going to cyno the haulers? I hope you aren’t a ganker looking for almost-afk gate camping? @Scoots_Choco I think it’s funny how you are angry at being bad in selecting targets then blame the active players because an AFK player does not fly away. Strange how people with clearly opposite opinions flock together to make a discussion that cannot possible be called intellectual. Not just you, it’s the real issue with the forums. I could keep going in for the 118 posts but this appears a reflection of these days politics that are so divided that no one looks for a compromis but just want to have only their own interests because “they voted”. "It’s all so tiresome… " maybe everyone can talk to non players about this and ask their opinions and hope they reply “That really looks like a ‘fun’ (this really covers a lot of opinions) game, let me create an account and join in”. Because in the end we need to get new players in. All I see here is “If we drive enough people out, people will come in to fight gankers and then go on to low/null/wormholespace to have awesome fights with well organised nullsec blocs” and that appears a little weird to me. But keep that in mind. Every thread is just the same misleading "Whaa, my playstyle is cramped by **insert mechanic** it needs to change so… (and here it comes) more people will join the game and there will be millions of players! (which won’t even be able to play due to tidi). At least lets hope CCP find a solution to the issue of not being able to play large space battles, the actual thing CCP promotes EVE Online with to new players. Also the promotional videos show nothing about gameplay and that really makes people quit before they are a few days in. ---
**Author:** ![Inactive\_Seller](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/inactive_seller/32/424362_2.png) [@Inactive\_Seller](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Inactive_Seller)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 8:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/120 "2019-10-06T08:58:25Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > Why would there be ore belts then and moons with mining structures then? > “If you undock you consent to encounter other players mine AFK!” Does that expression seem smart? > Do you think the moon mining was over the top or do you think casual miners should not AFK and limit the game to (much less) professional players? > It’s important to fix causes not the results of the causes. is difficult to answer when you MIX in one paragraph very contradictory statements or not related at all. I try to do so with paragraphs of each one. The asteroid ore Belts in high sec, at the moment, pay Very lower ISK for the time you need to put. If u sum to that than the BEST ship normlly to EHP iin high sec is the skiff, or the ORCA and you make numbers of many hours you need do in high sec, simply cost/benefit is not good. Other guy write about 9m 20second fo the trigs to come, if u lose drones in that time, negative isk. Mining structures… do u read HIGHG high sec part ? mining structures are 0.5 and lower, no high high sec. The price of the athanor/tatara cut it from many players. Only some moons give u jaspet/crokite, and i can get more crokite roaming Ore anomalies. Surely, mining structures need time, funds, more time than the needed for “relaxed mining”, if u have trigs recon squads, as now, are by far more dangerous than the losers of CODE or other gankers. IS NOT GOOD FOR THE GAME IF U CAN MINE MORE RELAXED IN LOW SEC THAN IN HIGH SEC. > “If you undock you consent to encounter other players mine AFK!” Does that expression seem smart? Is Unrelated. many of us have no problems with other players because are PVP, and gankers as suicide gankers are losers who use less resoures and dont worth fight to the because pay very little. The losers of Gankers , as CODE, are not the problem. Your expression is a dumb one, the problem no are the PVP, are the unbalanced recon trig squads and are TRIG RECON SQUADS in PVE. I hace drones to fight. If i lose more drones than the ore i mine, is not positive , and nothing to do with AFK. The point is: If i need move and fight imply lose drones and isk, less relaxed mining, less players. > Do you think the moon mining was over the top or do you think casual miners should not AFK and limit the game to (much less) professional players? [Chewbacca defense - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca_defense), or [http://wiki.c2.com](http://wiki.c2.com) /?FalseDichotomy a ) The Moon mining is not related with HIgh High Sec, and u can get ore isk per hour as constantly mining Plagioclase without pause in better security systems than 0.5, not need invest. b ) anyone can AFK if they want but you are mixing. If u want relaxed mining, do with Ventures as an alpha or do missions of mining. Not need the money, but no sense to be isk negative in skiff fot the dornes, or losing crystal charges T2 damage when you move to other belt. No economic sense in HIGH high sec using t2 if u need move constantly. c ) The game is catered to rorqual super blosb, they have an adevntage because have no recon squads, have NEAR2, and professional or not is not related. High sec cant afk less than lowsec and null sec and the relaxed mining is not related with afk or experience Is the simple thing to WITH RECON SQUADA HAVE NO SENSE TO MINE IN HIGH HIGH SEC FOR MINERALS, And, as i say before, the danger are not the CODE guys or gankers, the danger is PVE and the no positive isk vs time. Some people i know who love mining, change to venture because they love mining, if they lose a venture nor problem, can recover i 15 minutes, but a procurer tome one or two hours, need omega, and anyway cant stay relaxed in high sec. If mining in a venture have more sense for players who love mining, and mining with a barge in Low sec is relaxed, then something is very wrong in High HIGH sec mining. > It’s important to fix causes not the results of the causes. Sucidal Oxymoron in business sense. Captain Obvious, Chewbacca Defense. The cause are the recon trig squads. The loss of players is the result, some unsub, others as me, mine in Low sec now. If yu ignore the results, is suicidal. CCP is catering to BLOBS, the new players, and the casual players, unsub. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 9:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/121 "2019-10-06T09:05:48Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > You are against bots, just like everyone as they tend to lead to RMT. Multiboxing is a whole other thing that is a direct result of the “trust no one” rule. People just tend to do all chores themselves to avoid having friends slave for them doing repetitive tasks for low reward. Moon mining can be botted or afk mined too so I am completely puzzeled how you praise this as the solution to the above mentioned problems. Multiboxing is fine. Do it if you can. The real problem is that mining is such a low-attention activity, especially in highsec where you, before the Trigs and FOBs, literally pay zero attention and be completely safe. It devalues activity, and allows people to scale that low-activity activity many fold, completely out-classing single-box mining, like a new player is likely to do. Making an activity more risky or require more attention makes it more valuable. This is a good thing, especially for people who aren’t running a dozen game clients. Of course it needs balance, but too many things in Eve scale too well with additional clients. It’s poor game design and contributes to the difficulty of new players getting into the game and being competitive. It’s far too late to outright ban multiboxing, but I see no reason why CCP shouldn’t continue to make changes to make it a less optimum way to play. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > "It’s all so tiresome… " maybe everyone can talk to non players about this and ask their opinions and hope they reply “That really looks like a ‘fun’ (this really covers a lot of opinions) game, let me create an account and join in”. Because in the end we need to get new players in. Indeed. Perhaps ask a new player how he feels about mining ice next to the dude with a dozen multiboxed barges? The power gap between those two is immense, and part of why players don’t stick around. “What, you mean I have to run 8 accounts to compete with the other miners in this game? Screw that, I’m out”. Sure, more powerful NPCs in highsec doesn’t completely solve that issue, but making it so you have to pay more attention, and are at increased risk for fielding such a fleet is a step in the right direction. Making things easier for veterans just increases the power gap between new entrants and the established player and harder for anyone new to get competitive and it is already far too hard to catch up. CCP is right to look for changes that make it easier for newer players, and more challenging for established players to try to improve the atrocious retention rates of Eve these days. Discouraging/nerfing low-attention sources of income is part of that. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 9:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/no-relaxed-mining-many-less-players/192478/122 "2019-10-06T09:32:33Z")
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