# Noctis Balance Pass **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [February 4, 2025, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966 "2025-02-04T15:07:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bakster\_Kane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bakster_kane/32/460913_2.png) [@Bakster\_Kane](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bakster_Kane)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2025, 9:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966/66 "2025-03-06T09:09:39Z")
The fact that people use Imicus to salvage is a sign that the Noctis is unbalanced. For example the Noctis should have the price and speed/align times of a T1 cruiser? But it should also have reasonable bonuse(s) and fitting slot amounts. What if only Noctis could deploy MTUs and then all MTUs tractor speed was doubled and they could not be attacked in highsec without CONCORD responding. Too radical? Probably not ---
**Author:** ![Bakster\_Kane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bakster_kane/32/460913_2.png) [@Bakster\_Kane](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bakster_Kane)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2025, 9:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966/67 "2025-03-06T09:25:18Z")
Its not ideal when MTUs are so powerful that they have to be excempt from CONCORD protection in high sec. By making the Noctis the only ship that can deploy MTUs it seems like that can be fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2025, 9:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966/68 "2025-03-06T09:46:15Z")
> [@Bakster\_Kane](#): > > The fact that people use Imicus to salvage is a sign that the Noctis is unbalanced. No it’s not. Ship use in EVE is situational. I also use the Noctis, just not to warp 8 jumps fast to salvage a grid while hostiles remaining from the fight are still in system. Both ships have situations in which they shine, which is a sign of good balance. ---
**Author:** ![Bakster\_Kane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bakster_kane/32/460913_2.png) [@Bakster\_Kane](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bakster_Kane)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2025, 11:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966/69 "2025-03-06T11:03:39Z")
The Noctis was intended to be the looter of battlefields was it not? Or what is its intention? ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2025, 11:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966/70 "2025-03-06T11:20:19Z")
Whats your definition of “battlefield”? The Noctis is - for 99% - used for collecting PvE loot when there is little risk of being suddenly ambushed by other players. If danger is around, everybody with a brain either uses a salvage destroyer (or cheap frig if no one is available) or making sure he can warp out instantly by doing the looting/salvaging while being pre-aligned to some safe spot. He already said that in his example possible hostiles were close by and he hadn’t a Noctis available in the system so the better solution _in this case_ was to use a fast and cheap frigate. He could also have used a Noctis with care and accepting more risk for a faster looting/salvaging process _if he had one close by_. What is there not to understand? ---
**Author:** ![Bakster\_Kane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bakster_kane/32/460913_2.png) [@Bakster\_Kane](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bakster_Kane)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2025, 11:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966/71 "2025-03-06T11:21:47Z")
How can you say that with a straight face and not think the Noctis is unbalanced ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2025, 12:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966/72 "2025-03-06T12:45:48Z")
… because the Noctis is very useful in other situations, just not this one? Ships do not need to be powerful in every situation to be balanced. In fact, it would be _unbalanced_ if a certain ship always is the most effective option. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2025, 2:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966/73 "2025-03-06T14:40:26Z")
> [@Bakster\_Kane](#): > > How can you say that with a straight face and not think the Noctis is unbalanced Because I am not stupid and actually know something about EVE Online and Game Design in general. As proven by my constructive participation over many years on various occasions. You really begin to make the impression of a casual domino player coming to a chess grandmaster meeting and beginning to argue about the rules of chess. ---
**Author:** ![Bakster\_Kane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bakster_kane/32/460913_2.png) [@Bakster\_Kane](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bakster_Kane)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2025, 6:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966/74 "2025-03-06T18:21:43Z")
Ok lets make a ship whos only purpose is to loot and salvage and then make it really slow and expensive so people use other ships instead > [@There is too much stupid here](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/there-is-too-much-stupid-here/478658): > > Im going to leave like other intelligent people have. au revoir ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2025, 6:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966/75 "2025-03-06T18:44:16Z")
> [@Bakster\_Kane](#): > > Ok lets make a ship whos only purpose is to loot and salvage and then make it really slow and expensive You can make good profit with it, thus it needs to be slow and expensive, so other players have a chance to catch and kill it. Like barges, Marauders, Orcas, Haulers… looks like we have a pattern here! ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2025, 8:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966/76 "2025-03-06T20:50:38Z")
For salvaging only the Noctis is fine. But when you combine looting and salvaging - it’s paltry cargo space falls way short (even with cargo expanders it barely pushes 2500m3). It also has a paper tank, slow speed and align time. As I’ve mentioned previously, all it needs is +2 mids and a 5000m3 cargo hold or fleet hangar. Cloaking and/or medium MJD would be icing on the cake. This could come in the form of an upgraded Noctis, T2 variation or an entirely new T1/Faction platform that ties-in with a new role in the upcoming mining changes (“waste” could end up being a new salvageable aspect). “We” are the players who use the Noctis outside of a dedicated salvage role (for looting as well as salvage). ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2025, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966/77 "2025-03-06T21:03:22Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > For salvaging only the Noctis is fine. But when you combine looting and salvaging - it’s paltry cargo space falls way short (even with cargo expanders it barely pushes 2500m3). We are turning in circles. All that has already been discussed. You _have_ to accept downsides, that is part of _balance_. You want more cargo, fit expanders. Accept their downsides. If you want even more cargo, rig for cargo. Accept the downsides of these rigs. If you want tank, fit tank. Accept the downsides. You want faster aligntime? Fit for it. And accept the downsides. The ship _should not_ be able to do _everything perfectly at once_. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2025, 9:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966/78 "2025-03-06T21:11:18Z")
Even T1 haulers have more cargo space. And you can’t really “un-gimp” the Noctis with respect to cargo space. The suggested changes don’t allow it to do everything - just give it the options for more custom configuration. Even a bump to 2500m3 of base cargo space would be enough without the other suggestions. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2025, 9:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966/79 "2025-03-06T21:19:39Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > Even T1 haulers have more cargo space. They are _specialized_ for transporting goods from A to B. The Noctis is _specialized_ for tractoring in and salvaging wrecks and grabbing what is in them. It’s cargo is more than sufficient for that job. MORE than sufficient. The few cases where it’s cargo isn’t enough to loot a single “battlefield” in one run are absolutely rare and completely insignificant in the bigger picture. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2025, 10:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966/80 "2025-03-06T22:12:07Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > Even T1 haulers have more cargo space. And you can’t really “un-gimp” the Noctis with respect to cargo space. That makes perfect sense, the Noctis isn’t a hauler after all and isn’t competing with T1 haulers when it comes to moving goods from A to B. It’s no wonder the ships specialized in having a large cargo hold have more cargo hold space than a ship specialized in salvaging and tractoring wrecks. The Noctis only needs enough cargo space to loot a grid after a fight and with 1,460 m3 it has plenty of space to do so, which can be increased further with low slots and rigs if you so wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2025, 10:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966/81 "2025-03-06T22:14:17Z")
> [@Bakster\_Kane](#): > > Ok lets make a ship whos only purpose is to loot and salvage and then make it really slow and expensive so people use other ships instead Just like Barges, whose only purpose is to mine? They too are made really slow and more expensive than Ventures so in some situations people still prefer to use Ventures instead for their low cost and high agility? Yes, that’s how EVE works. Welcome to EVE! Every ship here is situationally good, but not in all situations. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2025, 1:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966/82 "2025-03-07T01:05:26Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > t’s paltry cargo space falls way short (even with cargo expanders it barely pushes 2500m3). btw… do you even know what you are talking about? ![noctis](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/d/e/9de6939fc44ac5dd9516d055ae5f9ce2e0a1b659.png) Thats more than 3.000m³ And just for the fun I ran some L4 missions, the largest one turned out to be Worlds Collide with 4 full pockets - the first one with the two gates and a spawn of like 10 ships on each side. I killed both. - a pocket with lots of battleships behind each of the gates with probably 30 ships in it. I cleared both. - the final pocket with the mission loot and again lots of battleships, around 30 ships total. And guess what, the total loot and salvage was still well below a 1.000m³, not even one third of what this Noctis can hold. Even a full align-fit or a tanky fit could have stored it. Including the 4 MTUs I had used. So far, I cannot see a single hint that this ship would need a buff in any shape or form. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2025, 3:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966/83 "2025-03-07T03:23:14Z")
Yes, I do. I can’t tell what rigs you’re running, but a T2 signal amplifier would be better than a 3rd cargo expander (this gives you max targets/range). You don’t really need the sensor booster and can then run a cap recharger instead. Even a 2500m3 cargo bay would eliminate the need for running 2 cargo expanders (you could then run a damage control/nanofiber instead). Allowing a medium MJD would also open up some interesting options (with or without the extra mid slots). The benefits of covert ops cloak goes without saying. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2025, 3:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966/84 "2025-03-07T03:45:09Z")
Wtf? I didn’t ask you for fitting advice. The rigs are _obviously_ salvage tackle rigs and the 3 cargo expanders only present to show you that the Noctis can easily hold 3k m3 of stuff if really needed, but it simply isn’t. No one would fit them realistically on that ship because you simply never need it. Yet you claimed it could barely hold 2,5k and that this would be too low. Just wrong, plain and simple. Let it go, there is nothing to argue for buffing an almost perfect ship. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2025, 3:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966/85 "2025-03-07T03:59:10Z")
It’s not obvious. And I keep stating looting/salvaging which you keep ignoring. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noctis-balance-pass/475966.md?page=5)