# Noone left to play - impression and reasons of/for decreasing player numbers **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 27, 2020, 6:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158 "2020-12-27T18:14:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 4:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158/22 "2020-12-28T04:39:34Z")
> [@Cod\_Black1](#): > > No, this is not another “Eve will die thread”. I only see a relativly strong decrease of player numbers. In the meantime I can feel it. Actually is Corona lockdown in Europe. So normally the player numbers should go up as in March. We live in Nullsec. A few month ago our small corp had regulary \>40 people in the chat. Today there are 15 and this is the “new normal”. Same for the Ally. In the ally primetime there used to be more than 300 in the intel channel - now its around 200. The reason why you see fewer and fewer of the people that you know log in and play is because all of you are getting bored of/burned out by the constant mindless PvE grind you’re engaging in. You’re going through the same cyclical process that all other PvE-minded players go through. Your corporation/alliance will die soon, but another will take its place, and the cycle will repeat. The average lifespan of an EVE PvE farmer is a bit under the average player’s age in EVE (about 3 years, if I remember some old CCP statistics). > [@Cod\_Black1](#): > > When you go to [https://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility](https://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility) you see the following average numbers. > > Last year 33k > 6 month 32k > 3 month 27k > 1 month 23k > 2 week 22k > 1 week 23k The reason why these numbers are going down _in general_ is because CCP is focused on profitability instead of making a game people actually want to _play_ (and make no mistake, CCP is raking in loads of cash right now, despite these terrible player count figures). As a _whole_, we’re getting really fatigued by CCP’s shady monetization practices, their FOMO login campaigns, and their replacement of player-driven world-building content with on-rails holiday events and fake conflicts. [Like I (humorously) said in another thread](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/massive-decrease-of-my-personal-fun-and-playtime/283779/69), I don’t even play the game anymore. I just log in to collect my daily SP and clothing crates, and then switch to a different game that actually allows me to play for fun, instead of satisfying my OCD urges. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 9:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158/23 "2020-12-28T09:59:32Z")
> [@Ridley\_Rohan](#): > > I beg to differ. Not all changes are good I dont believe I said they were. But I am saying that part of the fun in any game is meeting challenges. Of course, these days, I have to put the caveat “for me” because a lot of folk around here hate any form of challenge or adversity to test themselves against. Modern game(r.)s are just rubbish. ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 2:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158/24 "2020-12-28T14:45:26Z")
No one likes nerfs, but CCP had to deal with unsustainable economic activity. Fortunately, they have stated that resource scarcity will not be the new norm, and that we’ll be seeing better rewards in the future. I don’t know how long away that will be, but in the meantime I will keep trying to take advantage of the unique opportunities that resource scarcity is providing. Speaking of which, all the whine threads complaining about income nerfs almost makes me want to go into more details, but I am financially incentivized to keep my mouth shut. Thus, all I can say to you is that yes, you can adapt to the nerfs and cloaking campers. You either fail to see your options, or are unwilling to change. Now, I do have some sympathy for the more casual players. Not everyone is looking to innovate new optimal strats, chase new opportunities, and/or step outside their comfort zones. If this applies to you, I recommend that you be patient. Resource scarcity will come to an end, and CCP has actually even said that they plan to adress cloaky camping. And if you consider yourself a more hardcore player, my suggestion to you is to stop complaining, and start asking yourself, “how can I use change to my advantage?” I can’t promise that you’ll benefit from every change, but this mindset will help you benefit from many changes, and help you to have fun and grow as a player. ---
**Author:** ![GloriousDeath](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloriousdeath/32/245138_2.png) [@GloriousDeath](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/GloriousDeath)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 3:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158/25 "2020-12-28T15:44:16Z")
> [@Cod\_Black1](#): > > When you go to [https://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility](https://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility) you see the following average numbers. > > Last year 33k > 6 month 32k > 3 month 27k > 1 month 23k > 2 week 22k > 1 week 23k > > When I ask corp members why they are not playing so much there are 3 main answers. > > 1. Mining nerf > 2. Ratting nerf > 3. Cloaky campers > 4. You can adapt to each of 1 to 3 but not to all Apparently those who disagree with you are ignoring or rationalizing the drop in log-ins. Certain are going as far as saying that the reasons your corp. members are not logging in are different than what they’re telling you. Basically, they’re saying you’re filthy liar. How do you feel about that ? ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 3:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158/26 "2020-12-28T15:45:22Z")
i dont have any sympathy for null sec carebears i lived there , they are the richest mofos in the game and cry on the forum like they cant live anymore HS miners are better edit: most of them cant even defend their own corporations wen at war , they are leeches ---
**Author:** ![GloriousDeath](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloriousdeath/32/245138_2.png) [@GloriousDeath](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/GloriousDeath)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 3:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158/27 "2020-12-28T15:45:48Z")
> [@Rekindle](#): > > You’re a real class A scumbag. Don’t encourage him, please. ---
**Author:** ![GloriousDeath](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloriousdeath/32/245138_2.png) [@GloriousDeath](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/GloriousDeath)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158/28 "2020-12-28T15:47:48Z")
> [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > HS miners are better But they don’t PvP 🧐 ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 3:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158/29 "2020-12-28T15:48:50Z")
> [@GloriousDeath](#): > > But they don’t PvP 🧐 yeah but i care for the lil guy i dont care for big whales crying crocodile tears ---
**Author:** ![GloriousDeath](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloriousdeath/32/245138_2.png) [@GloriousDeath](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/GloriousDeath)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158/30 "2020-12-28T15:51:05Z")
> [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > yeah but i care for the lil guy How admirable. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 3:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158/31 "2020-12-28T15:54:50Z")
> [@GloriousDeath](#): > > How admirable. ty 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 5:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158/32 "2020-12-28T17:19:42Z")
> [@GloriousDeath](#): > > > [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > > > HS miners are better > > But they don’t PvP 🧐 At least when weak people complain, it’s justifiable to an extent. Null-bears complain **and** they’re strong and well-equipped, and there’s just no excuse for that. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158/33 "2020-12-28T17:30:59Z")
Inaccurate. Nullbears are incredibly weak individually … … which is why they hide behind the group. ---
**Author:** ![GloriousDeath](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloriousdeath/32/245138_2.png) [@GloriousDeath](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/GloriousDeath)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158/34 "2020-12-28T18:47:51Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > At least when weak people complain, it’s justifiable to an extent. Null-bears complain **and** they’re strong and well-equipped, and there’s just no excuse for that. But it’s ok when PvPers complain? ---
**Author:** ![GloriousDeath](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloriousdeath/32/245138_2.png) [@GloriousDeath](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/GloriousDeath)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158/35 "2020-12-28T18:49:04Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > Nullbears are incredibly weak individually … > … which is why they hide behind the group Explain how they are “weak”, please. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158/36 "2020-12-28T18:54:54Z")
They have no discipline when it comes to their credit cards ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158/37 "2020-12-28T19:05:00Z")
> [@GloriousDeath](#): > > But it’s ok when PvPers complain? PvPers don’t complain as much as voice their frustration that their gameplay is getting chipped away piecemeal and in perpetuity. Take high-sec aggression, for example. We started out with dozens of ways to attack/hunt/defend against each other when the game was young, and now we’re down to just two. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 7:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158/38 "2020-12-28T19:19:46Z")
> [@Cod\_Black1](#): > > When I ask corp members why they are not playing Maybe ask someone outside the farmer trash bubble ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 7:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158/39 "2020-12-28T19:54:00Z")
> [@Cod\_Black1](#): > > When you go to [https://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility](https://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility) you see the following average numbers. > > Last year 33k > 6 month 32k > 3 month 27k > 1 month 23k > 2 week 22k > 1 week 23k Since people keep trotting this out, let me try to debunk this mistake once and for all. The reason there is an apparent decrease in average numbers is completely and artefact of the sampling time of the data. Since the data being returned is the maximum PCU, the shorter the time range, the more data points are from lower activity times of day. This is obvious from the two extremes: ![Screenshot 2020-12-28 at 20.30.43](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/6/c/6ca53bfe3bcf4d183520719edbaab17a1e53559c.png) In the weekly, you can clearly see the daily low PCU times of day, and even downtime. ![Screenshot 2020-12-28 at 20.31.33](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/1/8/18d914bcba90f12fe54d63d3d78b2eb7a2d20212.png) In the yearly, these low activity times are not present nor calculated in the average. All you can see is the weekly change in activity over the days. The resolution is not sufficient to include the low PCU times of day. If you want, you can make and apples-to-apples by playing with the window below the main graph and set a window of the same time range. But it isn’t even necessary… just look at the 1y graph with my eye-balled averages foe 3 month periods: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/1/9/191d1f2db9e88e6ef94b57ae91ae80c7a4e1ef48.png) I don’t know what exactly each quarterly average is, but it ranged from 30k to 35k for the entire year of 2020. And the lowest quarter was the first one. > [@Cod\_Black1](#): > > I only see a relativly strong decrease of player numbers. In the meantime I can feel it. Actually is Corona lockdown in Europe. So normally the player numbers should go up as in March. We live in Nullsec. A few month ago our small corp had regulary \>40 people in the chat. Today there are 15 and this is the “new normal”. Same for the Ally. In the ally primetime there used to be more than 300 in the intel channel - now its around 200. So no, the numbers don’t reflect your feelings. You may be entirely right that your corp/alliance/coalition is “dying” but the game is doing just fine, better than at the beginning of last year. But don’t fret, the latest [devblog](https://www.eveonline.com/article/qm06cu/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook2) addressed points 1, 2 and 3 of yours. I think 2021 will come with goodies and be a more active year for you and your group, at least if you are willing to fight for your space. ---
**Author:** ![GloriousDeath](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloriousdeath/32/245138_2.png) [@GloriousDeath](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/GloriousDeath)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 8:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158/40 "2020-12-28T20:00:01Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > They have no discipline when it comes to their credit cards What is it to you or anyone complaining about them? It’s their money and they’re giving it to the devs of a game you’re playing and seem to enjoy. I’d be like OH good, someone is paying as long as it’s not me 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![GloriousDeath](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloriousdeath/32/245138_2.png) [@GloriousDeath](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/GloriousDeath)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158/41 "2020-12-28T20:07:33Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > PvPers don’t complain as much as voice their frustration I see… The teacher is not sleeping, he closes his eyes. The guy’s not drunk, he just had a bit more to drink than usual. He didn’t fart, he just passed gas. He didn’t punch him, he just gave him a taste of his knuckles … > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Take high-sec aggression, for example. We started out with dozens of ways to attack/hunt/defend against each other when the game was young, and now we’re down to just two. I understand and that sucks. But who makes those changes, the Carebears or CCP? Carebears don’t code, the devs do. Who’s weaker? The Carebears for taking advantage of what CCP does or CCP for - according to some - giving in to the whining of Carebears ? Whose game is it ultimately ? CCP’s or the Carebears ? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/noone-left-to-play-impression-and-reasons-of-for-decreasing-player-numbers/287158.md?page=3)