# November Release - General Feedback **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** feedback, release, official\ **Created:** [November 12, 2019, 10:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496 "2019-11-12T10:41:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Yen\_TwoZero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yen_twozero/32/317001_2.png) [@Yen\_TwoZero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yen_TwoZero)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 9:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496/128 "2019-11-14T09:20:17Z")
PVE Titans turned into garbage… GJ! ---
**Author:** ![Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/manweru_cemenotar/32/230368_2.png) [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Manweru_Cemenotar)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 9:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496/129 "2019-11-14T09:44:39Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > > > But it is completely logical for this damage layer to deplete from the direction of next layer riiiiight? > > It did that in the past. First your shield went red from right to left as in target lock, then armor went red from right to left just like in the target lock and then Hull. Now it doesn’t behave like the target lock icon any longer. What are you talking about? For scope You mention it still behaves the same - First your shields go from right to left as in target lock, then armor goes from right to left, then hull just like in target lock. the only thing that changed is that they have reordered shields armor and hull so that global depletion also goes - from right to left, to be precise, in same direction as each section depletes. And this does not have real equivalency to the target lock (as You’ve mentioned in your post even) because target lock uses radial stacked display, while drones use horizontal linear. and it is completely logical to have your per bar buffer deplete in same direction as global buffer when you have horizontally linear display. Bonus points ccp didn’t invent a wheel in here - this way of displaying segmented hp depletion has been used in games for years now. > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > > > That being said I also don’t mind them depleting the way they deplete right now. > > Right now it goes against how the target lock HP depletion progresses. See above. And it goes against how the natural reading flow of a chart row goes. It is objectively absolutely illogical. excuse me, what? target lock depletion goes from right to left and always has been. The only difference now is that target lock is stacked radial display, while drone status is horizontal linear. and [IIIII] [IIIII] [III–] is a far more logical thing to “read” than [III–] [IIIII] [IIIII]. > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > > > I find it even easier now than it was before. > > How is it easier if it not only goes against how the target lock HP depletion progresses but also because it goes against how you normally read a chart and because it adds even more inconsistency with the HP blocks. Just some food for thought. 😉 firstly it is not going against target lock HP depletion, unless somehow you managed to get set up mirrored target locks (not sure if option is even there). secondly order of reading a chart does not matter when you have consistent order of depletion. thirdly quite to opposite of you’ve said it adds consistency within the blocks - the direction of per-bar depletion is same as direction of global depletion. PS. and overall change is so minor I do not believe it warrants shitstorm it is getting. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 11:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496/130 "2019-11-14T11:09:23Z")
Any dev care to explain drone hp changes? QoL? Most of players here read from left to right. What is the point of changing it? Fighting bots? ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 11:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496/131 "2019-11-14T11:11:36Z")
> [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > and it is completely logical to have your per bar buffer deplete in same direction as global buffer when you have horizontally linear display. It is not logical to have the bars ordered against the reading direction of a row. The bars depleted before just like you read the radial target lock stack. Now they deplete not only against reading direction of the row, they also deplete differently than the target lock. Bonus points, drones depleted in the same way before and now deplete differently. > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > and [IIIII] [IIIII] [III–] is a far more logical thing to “read” than [III–] [IIIII] [IIIII]. This is not more logical because you do not reed the bar in a chart like in the left example but like in the right example. My shields deplete first anywhere I look in the way the HUD and target locks deplete. Now they deplete as last item if you read like a normal western reader. It is completely bogus to say otherwise. > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > secondly order of reading a chart does not matter when you have consistent order of depletion. Order or reading direction in a chart matters a lot. This is a row of information that you read from left to right. Now, however, you have to read it from left to right and from the middle you have to start again from right to left. > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > thirdly quite to opposite of you’ve said it adds consistency within the blocks - the direction of per-bar depletion is same as direction of global depletion. Then you seem to have a different target lock or HUD than I do, because my HUD and target lock depletes the bars like the old watchlist/drone HP bars did and not like the new system does. ---
**Author:** ![Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/manweru_cemenotar/32/230368_2.png) [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Manweru_Cemenotar)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 11:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496/132 "2019-11-14T11:33:49Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > > > and it is completely logical to have your per bar buffer deplete in same direction as global buffer when you have horizontally linear display. > > It is not logical to have the bars ordered against the reading direction of a row. The bars depleted before just like you read the radial target lock stack. Now they deplete not only against reading direction of the row, they also deplete differently than the target lock. again order of reading does not matter when global direction is consistent. and again I have no idea what you did to Your target lock stacks, to have them deplete in reverse. > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > > > and [IIIII] [IIIII] [III–] is a far more logical thing to “read” than [III–] [IIIII] [IIIII]. > > This is not more logical because you do not reed the bar in a chart like in the left example but like in the right example. It is completely bogus to say otherwise. … firstly I do not “reed” the charts. Secondly I actually do “read” drone display more naturally with the left one. but I will not judge Your preferences on reading charts. > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > > > secondly order of reading a chart does not matter when you have consistent order of depletion. > > Order or reading direction in a chart matters a lot. This is a row of information that you read from left to right. Now, however, you have to read it from left to right and from the middle you have to start again from right to left. here I’ll explain to you in single words: I look at the drone display: I see a group of bars split in 3 sections each. With current system those bars deplete from one edge to another. Which is nice. With old system the same bars would start depleting from the 1/3rd of the bar to the edge, then from 2/3rd towards 1/3rd then from the other edge in the direction of 2/3rd. Which is not so nice. Nothing to make great fuss about but not nice netherless. > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > > > thirdly quite to opposite of you’ve said it adds consistency within the blocks - the direction of per-bar depletion is same as direction of global depletion. > > Then you seem to have a different target lock or HUD than I do, because my HUD and target lock depletes the bars like the old watchlist/drone HP bars did and not like the new system does. as far as target lock part of HUD goes I’m running on default settings didn’t even know you can alter it anyway beyond moving it along the edges of the screen. and all radials in there depletes same way as main ship’s HUD - from right to left. Firstly outermost radial, then middle radial and at last inner radial. all of them from right to left. Although. If target lock stacks can be set to deplete in reverse, the same setting should allow to flip the direction of depletion for drones/watchlist. I hope we can at least agree on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 11:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496/133 "2019-11-14T11:43:09Z")
> [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > again order of reading does not matter when global direction is consistent. Reading directions is of very big importance. The new system goes against any text and data reading convention. Moreover, it breaks with how HP is displayed in other UI elements in the game. And it is not even just HP bars. All other progress bars also read from left to right, not right to left. Scanning, manufacturing progress, loading, establishing warp vector, everything. This change becomes ever more bogus the more you think about it. > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > With old system the same bars would start depleting from the 1/3rd of the bar to the edge, then from 2/3rd towards 1/3rd then from the other edge in the direction of 2/3rd. Which is not so nice. Nothing to make great fuss about but not nice netherless. With the old system the first layer of a ship’s health was right next to the name of the person that is getting shot. You saw immediately who was getting damaged. Same for drones. Now, in the new system you have to look at the far right edge of the window to see who is getting shot. This is not so nice. > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > as far as target lock part of HUD goes I’m running on default settings didn’t even know you can alter it anyway beyond moving it along the edges of the screen. You didn’t know you could not alter it yet you are the one that altered it. My target lock items deplete in reverse order than the new display system in the watch list and drones. The shield goes first, then armor and then hull, read from top to bottom. In the new watch list display, these things deplete from bottom (right) to top (left), which is not so nice. > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > and all radials in there depletes same way as main ship’s HUD - from right to left. Firstly outermost radial, then middle radial and at last inner radial. all of them from right to left. And this is exactly how the new WL/drone window does not display the information. It displays it in reverse and not like the HP bars anywhere else in EVE. > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > to make great fuss about but not nice netherless. This may not be something for you to make a fuss about but I would like my UI to be comprehensible and easy to understand. I have no interest in adjusting my information comprehension processes to some warped and illogical idea about a different way to see thing just for the sake of some wayward developer that does not understand how you read data. The only thing you are right about is that there are more important things to make a fuss about. However, I have already pointed those out and no one else talks about these more important things. People only try desperately to justify the implementation of this pointless and illogical change. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 11:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496/134 "2019-11-14T11:57:35Z")
The Drone name is the entity, the damage indicators should be immediately following that and be listed in order of first, second and third depletion. If the damage indicators were listed vertically in a column below the entity name in order of depletion, then Shields would be on top, Armor in middle and Hull on bottom. Since they’re listed horizontally in a row to the right of the Drone entity name, they still would be listed in order of depletion, meaning Shields left next to the Drone name, Armor middle and Hull on the far right. ---
**Author:** ![Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/manweru_cemenotar/32/230368_2.png) [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Manweru_Cemenotar)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 12:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496/135 "2019-11-14T12:04:56Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > > > With old system the same bars would start depleting from the 1/3rd of the bar to the edge, then from 2/3rd towards 1/3rd then from the other edge in the direction of 2/3rd. Which is not so nice. Nothing to make great fuss about but not nice netherless. > > With the old system the first layer of a ship’s health was right next to the name of the person that is getting shot. You saw immediately who was getting damaged. Same for drones. Now, in the new system you have to look at the far right edge of the window to see who is getting shot. This is not so nice. … what? What You wrote in here barely makes sense. > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > > > as far as target lock part of HUD goes I’m running on default settings didn’t even know you can alter it anyway beyond moving it along the edges of the screen. > > You didn’t know you could not alter it yet you are the one that altered it. My target lock items deplete in reverse order than the new display system in the watch list and drones. The shield goes first, then armor and then hull, read from top to bottom. In the new watch list display, these things deplete from bottom (right) to top (left), which is not so nice. I’ve told you quite literally I am running game defaults for most of things. the highlight of my customization is having drone window moved to align with border of local chat. My target lock items depletes layer by layer from outermost to inner most, each layer depletes from right to left. Drones deplete completely from right to left, because newsflash they are not stacked one ontop of another. Which always was a difference. And you can’t just assume top is left when converting radial stack to linear horizontal. It’s simply not how it works. > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > > > and all radials in there depletes same way as main ship’s HUD - from right to left. Firstly outermost radial, then middle radial and at last inner radial. all of them from right to left. > > And this is exactly how the new WL/drone window does not display the information. It displays it in reverse and not like the HP bars anywhere else in EVE. ok I think I have (finally) understood your point in here - You are just going off from wrong assumption that up means left. > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > > > to make great fuss about but not nice netherless. > > This may not be something for you to make a fuss about but I would like my UI to be comprehensible and easy to understand. I have no interest in adjusting my information comprehension processes to some warped and illogical idea about a different way to see thing just for the sake of some wayward developer that does not understand how you read data. it’s only “warped” and “illogical” if you start from weird and debatable on logical front assumption that when converting stack to bar left must mean up. Spoiler alert - it doesn’t have to, and there is ALOT of other game where it is not. > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > The only thing you are right about is that there are more important things to make a fuss about. However, I have already pointed those out and no one else talks about these more important things. People only try desperately to justify the implementation of this pointless and illogical change. To be frank what I see is mostly people blowing non-issue out of proportions. and only a handfull of fellas telling them they are wrong. And I think you are definitely overusing term “illogical”. And myself at no point I was desperate in my defense of logic supporting the change. For the most time I fact I was confused by “what is this guy’s issue”. So if you really wanted to use word “desperate” I was “desperate” to understand the reasoning behind the pile of words claiming to be logical, while not giving much of appearance of such. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 12:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496/136 "2019-11-14T12:16:27Z")
> [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > What You wrote in here barely makes sense. It does not make sense to you that you see a list of things and in such list you see at first a column with names and next to it columns with boxes that represent certain HP level states of the ship the names right next to it are in? It does not make sense to you that the first HP layer that can possibly receive damage is right next to the name, then the second layer and then the third layer that can only receive damage once the other 2 layers are depleted? This makes no sense to you? Instead it makes sense to you that you that you see the same list with the names in the first column but then the first layer that can possibly be damaged as far away from that name as the window allows? This makes sense to you? If that is really the case than I am not surprised you were desperately trying to understand my logic. > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > I’ve told you quite literally I am running game defaults for most of things. the highlight of my customization is having drone window moved to align with border of local chat. Then what you describe here cannot be what you see ingame because it goes against what is actually being displayed ingame. Maybe you should check your settings or your perception of the UI. One of the two is faulty. > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > You are just going off from wrong assumption that up means left. Then you have not understood a single thing. My argumentation is based on how normal western people in a western locale client read text and data. I don’t know what you base your argument on but it is not that. > [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > To be frank what I see is mostly people blowing non-issue out of proportions. and only a handfull of fellas telling them they are wrong. You know what? To me it looks like that is what CCP bases their “development” on as well. Counting on a few clueless people to identify issues without understanding how certain things work and how certain things are good the way they are. Instead of listening to these people all the time, someone should explain them how things work. Their input can be interesting and a necessary thought starter, but most often their input is misguided by lack of knowledge. Basing development and arguments on this kind of input is dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/manweru_cemenotar/32/230368_2.png) [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Manweru_Cemenotar)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 12:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496/137 "2019-11-14T12:21:42Z")
ok, dude this leads nowhere. At this point all you have achieved on regard to my person is that you have completely convinced that you are unable of abstract comprehension and can only read one very specific kind of data display, And you are willing to argue the ■■■■ out of it when display shifts from that one single paradigm of display conversion. Have a nice day and I suppose good luck on your crusade… ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 1:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496/138 "2019-11-14T13:06:00Z")
> [@Caedor](#): > > Null sec is easier than high sec. NBSI Null is easier than High Security Space… ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496/139 "2019-11-14T13:14:50Z")
> [@IS\_LAH\_RAVIN](#): > > Jump Gates and Beacons to 500Km? Was there some pressing game play or oppressive exploit? That’s to remind people how awesome POS’s were, since they not only had modules within 500km’s of the stick, but the weapons actually shot at stuff automatically. ---
**Author:** ![Dario\_Kaelenter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dario_kaelenter/32/383143_2.png) [@Dario\_Kaelenter](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dario_Kaelenter)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496/140 "2019-11-14T14:27:38Z")
erm so this previously undocumented change to the Drone health and Watchlist ship health seems pretty counterintuitive and serves only as a way to catch out players 😡 - Reorganised Watchlist and Drone HP bars to "Structure - Armour - Shield - Updated Watchlist and Drone HP bars to deplete from right to left **It was perfectly fine the way it was!** When watching something like a watchlist it was much more efficient to see the damage starting closer to the target’s name. Logically we think of things as having Shield - Armor - Hull and have gotten use to watching for damage in this order so why make this pointless change ? Change it back !! ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496/141 "2019-11-14T17:43:20Z")
Dear CCP, Your game seems to have gone to ■■■■. Well, it had a good run I guess; for me from 2007 to 2019, though to be fair I’ve not played much on this toon this year and likely wont be playing on any toons now or any time soon. It has been fun CCP, thankyou and good bye! o7 ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496/142 "2019-11-14T17:50:25Z")
Imagine being so much of a snowflake that changing a small UI element to be more consistent with the rest of the game causes you to cry and whine like you just got your favorite toy broken. ---
**Author:** ![Dragos\_Highwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragos_highwind/32/170517_2.png) [@Dragos\_Highwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dragos_Highwind)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496/143 "2019-11-14T17:50:53Z")
#canIhaveyourstuff? ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496/144 "2019-11-14T17:55:57Z")
you wouldn’t know what to do with it 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dragos\_Highwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragos_highwind/32/170517_2.png) [@Dragos\_Highwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dragos_Highwind)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496/145 "2019-11-14T17:58:43Z")
I’d go pew things with it. From the sounds of your whining you forgot how to do that long ago. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496/146 "2019-11-14T17:59:35Z")
> [@Lugburz](#): > > you wouldn’t know what to do with it I would trash it so you lost it all for good, tbh. ---
**Author:** ![Caskas\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caskas_amatin/32/413473_2.png) [@Caskas\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Caskas_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496/147 "2019-11-14T19:05:14Z")
Hey CCP, how about a nerf to all the complaining on this thread. Just play the damn game. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/november-release-general-feedback/200496.md?page=8)