# NPC corporation tax should be removed **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 14, 2021, 10:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027 "2021-01-14T10:36:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2021, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027/205 "2021-01-18T18:51:31Z")
> [@Hlamon](#): > > 100 mil/hour looks suboptimal That’s per toon. Use 3 toons, you make 300 M/h. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2021, 6:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027/206 "2021-01-18T18:52:34Z")
well I know for a fact…if you want to go all in hardcore… bounties+Salvage+loot+LP…using 2 characters will/can net up to 320 million per hour consistently…question is how long you can maintain that hourly mentally/physically exhausting grindfest to consistently do 320m per hour. ---
**Author:** ![Hlamon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hlamon/32/241936_2.png) [@Hlamon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hlamon)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2021, 6:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027/207 "2021-01-18T18:53:58Z")
No matter, both ways it is too much for high-sec, this needs to be toned down to maintain balance. Maybe CCP will get to it, some day. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2021, 6:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027/208 "2021-01-18T18:55:42Z")
I think all taxes should be a lot higher, minimal tax for npc and player corporation 50% going to CONCORD, because it needs more ISK to shorten response times in case of space crime. And for projects like making low sec space high sec. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2021, 6:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027/209 "2021-01-18T18:57:33Z")
sure no problem…then i can sell T1 Battlships for 600+ million each…cause that is what the change will eventually create 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hlamon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hlamon/32/241936_2.png) [@Hlamon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hlamon)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2021, 7:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027/210 "2021-01-18T19:00:24Z")
Bounties will probably be fixed by DBS, it can happen soon, because system already in game and ready to use. Fixing income from LP is another thing, but I believe CCP will come up with something, coincidentally there was “missconfiguration” on test server lately, with mission rewards significantly lowered. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2021, 10:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027/211 "2021-01-18T22:23:43Z")
> [@Hlamon](#): > > According to CCP data, wars declared on highsec players make them just stop playing at all for the length of war, this was considered bad for the game and thus changed to current state, That data suggested that wardecs at the time caused that. It does not mean that the current wardec system is better. Remember, CCP’s data also says meaningful choices, agency and player interactions increases player retention. For example, player logins only went **down** after the wardec change. And did so for 6months-a year until lockdown. So these players that are supposed to be saved by the wardec changes, aren’t sticking around anyways. I don’t have a problem with non-wardeccable corp. I was in fact the biggest supporter on these forums for such a mechanic. But they should face trade offs rather than free access to the very feature that supposed to make them wardec eligible. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2021, 11:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027/212 "2021-01-18T23:34:48Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > And Ive asked this before elsewhere; what has inspired this attraction to a safe scifi universe? I really cant think of any fictional examples where people dream of manufacturing and trade without wanting to get one over on their rivals. Is the drama of two mining corps duking it out over an anomoly that horrific to them? When I was a little kid in school, we had parents staging protests against various academic and sporting competitions. I still remember when we had the “olympics” and they gave a medal to every single participant. I wasn’t much of a runner, and came in like second-to-last in my race. When they gave me that medal, I just kind of looked at it weird, then chucked it later. Now, these people are becoming parents themselves. Or at the very least, they are coming into their own economic and political power. The conditioning has been _very_ heavy. If you need further examples of this paradigm shift, note the difference in how real-life wars were covered decades ago, compared to modern times. In the past, it was much more visceral, despite the propaganda. Today, it’s very white-washed, subdued, and most importantly, _distant_. > [@Hlamon](#): > > Orca mining produces materials, not raw ISK, actually it is good thing to reduce inflation. Same goes for mission running, missions mostly produce LP, which act as ISK sink via LP shops purchases That doesn’t reduce inflation; it creates another inflation vector. > [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > well I know for a fact…if you want to go all in hardcore… bounties+Salvage+loot+LP…using 2 characters will/can net up to 320 million per hour consistently…question is how long you can maintain that hourly mentally/physically exhausting grindfest to consistently do 320m per hour. I can’t even wrap my mind around how CCP finds this acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2021, 11:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027/213 "2021-01-18T23:34:58Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > That data suggested that wardecs at the time caused that. No it did not. It literally said that people who are in a corp being wardec stop playing, not only during the war but also after it - to the point wardeccing corporation actually killed them and all activities of the players. You can however say that those data were not enough to prove a causation between the two. Maybe the people who were about to leave the game anyhow had a behavior that made them war decced, not the opposite. We can’t ignore the possibility of third party effect (that is an effect that causes both the observed effects) The data did not “suggest” anything. Only testing by CCP, that is literally what they did, could have enough data to get a correct causation between an actionable event and an observable event. The only suggestion was “you can test this”. Which CCP did. In case you did not notice, CCP made a lot of fundamentals changes, and/or went back on their choices when realizing there was something unexpected or bad. That’s difficult, that costs a lot of time to think of it, that requires ball, and that’s the closest I can think of how to perform empirical research. You know what requires more balls than making Black Out ? Acknowledging the result was bad and backtracking. And just to say, a lot of those changes did hurt me. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > So these players that are supposed to be saved by the wardec changes, aren’t sticking around anyways. unrelated. You are claiming that they were supposed to come back, which is a complete nonsense. People who left won’t come back. People who left because of the war decs won’t even want to hear again about Eve (or maybe they will but then no impact in the change) . There is no point crying about spilt milk. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2021, 11:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027/214 "2021-01-18T23:47:44Z")
> [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > well I know for a fact…if you want to go all in hardcore… bounties+Salvage+loot+LP…using 2 characters will/can net up to 320 million per hour consistently…question is how long you can maintain that hourly mentally/physically exhausting grindfest to consistently do 320m per hour. 100M/h/toon is the base, raw isk. If you go for a good LP store you can also make 100k/h and 50M/h in loot, so total (1500 isk/lp is NOT good, You can easily have 2k ; and 50M/h in loot is low) 300M/h per toon. 100M/h is what I have now in chill multiboxed accounts, per toon (I have a program that tells me how much I did exactly) So with two toons that’s 600 M/h. The best I did was … dunno, I thing I reached close to 1B/h on one toon(only one day though, and that’s because one LP offer reached the sky). And when I did it seriously I was doing like consistent 500M/h per toon (seriously means I had several alts in several hubs with enough backend items to sell, and items prepared to exchange). But it’s mind numbing so you end up doing something else, or losing a part of your ships in the process (I was losing like 1-2B/month in ships). Or hating yourself. But yeah, when people tell you it’s not possible to do more than 50M/h in HS … you can laugh at them and let them show their ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 12:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027/215 "2021-01-19T00:04:05Z")
> [@PeHD0M](#): > > What do you think? After skimming the last two hundred posts, I think this is about the best topic someone could have come up with for the current bunch of no-lifes haunting the forum 18 hrs a day. Like moths to a flame here y’all are helpless before the words of the OP. Madly posting like the rage zombies you are. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![zazzmatazz\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zazzmatazz_xu/32/451037_2.png) [@zazzmatazz\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zazzmatazz_Xu)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 12:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027/216 "2021-01-19T00:34:40Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > safe costs you noticeable rewards, and taking risks pays off. Your kidding right, anyone that lives in high sec exclusively already only gets hobo in space rewards. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 1:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027/217 "2021-01-19T01:25:44Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > No it did not. It literally said that people who are in a corp being wardec stop playing, not only during the war but also after it - to the point wardeccing corporation actually killed them and all activities of the players. The way i said it wasn’t very good. I mean wardecs mechanics of that time caused that inactivity. And the behaviour of players with regards to wardecs at the time. Everyone knew wardecs were in a ■■■■ state a couple years ago. And there’s nothing to suggest the current iteration of wardecs made things better. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > You are claiming that they were supposed to come back, which is a complete nonsense. No I’m not. Every year thousands of players try out eve. And CCP suggested that wardecs were causing a significant proportion of such players to leave. We STILL get thousands of players trying eve every year. But now, rather than having as many leave because of wardecs, they are leaving because of other reasons. _They aren’t sticking around anyway._ ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 1:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027/218 "2021-01-19T01:29:08Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > They aren’t sticking around anyway. Well, of course they aren’t. There’s still ganking, scamming, getting shot at the gate when you just want to go to low-sec to do some peaceful PvE, sometimes you want to mine and there are no asteroids in your favorite belt, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 1:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027/219 "2021-01-19T01:39:25Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > And CCP suggested that wardecs were causing a significant proportion of such players to leave. Yes, it was their interpretation. Which, for one, I agree was not necessarily true. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > But now, rather than having as many leave because of wardecs, they are leaving because of other reasons. _They aren’t sticking around anyway._ How do you know they are the same ? I heard that wardec corporations had issues. I head that CCP was banning bots. I heard there was modifications in the farming that made people leave NS. I heard CCP screwed up small industrials (I am one of them). How do you know that the people who were leaving after their corp was wardecced, were the same that are leaving now ? What if literally as many people leave, but they still stick average one more year for those who join a corp ? > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > There’s still […] off topic. I know that some people were okay to play with gankers, even roaming in LS, but when wardecced and not being able to play at arbitrary time just decided to leave the game. I also know people who were harassing other people by wardecing each corp they joined. You are claiming there was no abuse. That’s dishonest, you know wardecs were made to shoot defenseless targets, and to abuse weaker players - that is, to make them leave the game. Such a nice mechanism to be able to harass players legally… no wonder people left the game when they discover what your “engaging gameplay” actually amounts to. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 1:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027/220 "2021-01-19T01:51:53Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > That’s dishonest, you know wardecs were made to shoot defenseless targets, and to abuse weaker players - that is, to make them leave the game. You’re right, CCP definitely intentionally created a gameplay mechanic to ensure that they don’t get _too_ many people playing their space MMO. It definitely wasn’t the case that 20 years ago, they envisioned their game as having a fairly uniform player base of people who extracted resources, killed NPCs for bounties, and fought each other over space and wealth-making opportunities. They _definitely_ knew and expected that the game would turn into about 90% Eloi-like creatures mindlessly treating it as a single-player second-job sim, with the remaining 10% being the Morlocks who hunted them for food and sport. And thus, with their woodies banging the underside of the conference room table, they collectively decided to implement a mechanic that would allow the latter to “grief” the former. I assume they followed that up by having a Brennivin-fueled blood orgy right there on the conference room floor, but my understanding of Icelandic culture is a little shallow, so I could be wrong about that. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 2:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027/221 "2021-01-19T02:05:07Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > You’re right, CCP definitely intentionally created a gameplay mechanic to ensure that they don’t get _too_ many people playing their space MMO. Except that’s not what I wrote. I was talking about specific wardecs, not the mechanism. It’s a fact, not an interpretation. People made wardecs just to harass other players out of the game. CCP vision is irrelevant in that. Please stop nitpicking about terms by putting them out of context, and try to understand what I was actually saying, not what a possible out of context interpretation of those words would be. The opposite of “there was no abuse” is “there was abuse”, not “there was only abuse”. There was abuse, and that abuse is what drove some players (not all, but definitely some) out of the game. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 2:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027/222 "2021-01-19T02:07:50Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > and try to understand what I was actually saying It’s not my job to try to decipher what you mean. Write more clearly if you don’t want people to misunderstand what you’re saying. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 2:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027/223 "2021-01-19T02:25:15Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > It’s not my job to try to decipher what you mean. That’s basic logic. The opposite of “there was no abuse” is “there was abuse” , NOT “there was only abuse”. You made it mean the latter, so yes it was an absurd interpretation. But as an opposition to your stance, this interpretation makes no sense anyhow. Just basic logic … You claim that wardecs could not be abused more than ganking, scamming, people roaming in LS. That’s is just plainly wrong. Wardecs were used to do things that are forbidden in other circumstances, in order to harass players out of the game. And yes when some specific players realized that this was what some other players promoted as “engaging gameplay” they left the game, realizing that there was no way to keep playing and making friends when you are targeted by a group of vets to which you are just unable to do any harm. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 2:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027/224 "2021-01-19T02:37:34Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > That’s basic logic. Doesn’t matter. You want to be a good writer? Write _well_, so that people can understand you, and have as few misconceptions about your message as possible. Don’t care about being a rubbish writer, or are intentionally trying to leave your messages vague so that you can get into little yapping spats with people after throwing in some passive-aggressive remarks about “reading comprehension”? Then do whatever it is you’re doing. I don’t really care either way. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > You claim that wardecs could not be abused more than ganking, scamming, people roaming in LS. That’s is just plainly wrong. Wardecs were used to do things that are forbidden in other circumstances, in order to harass players out of the game. Forbidden? Death is death. Ganking you would accomplish the same effect. In fact, it’s more efficient _and_ cheaper to gank someone today (accounting for money _and_ time) than to launch a war against them. Either way the carebear quits, and then I pop one to my kill board stats. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > And yes when some specific players realized that this was what some other players promoted as “engaging gameplay” they left the game, realizing that there was no way to keep playing and making friends when you are targeted by a group of vets to which you are just unable to do any harm. In the new, rubbish system, yes, you can’t harm them. In the old system, when war groups were smaller and more numerous, there were many more options available, such as hiring mercenaries to fight for you. Also, as successful as I was with wars in general, there were still _plenty_ of cases where I was the one being camped in and hunted because the targets actually got off their asses and formed organized resistance. Good luck doing that against the two or three mega-cartels that control the war market today. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/npc-corporation-tax-should-be-removed/290027.md?page=12)