# Nullsec Alliance Cowardice Ladder **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [August 31, 2023, 3:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078 "2023-08-31T03:52:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 12:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/182 "2023-09-08T12:38:18Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Also, it’s quite telling about the state of the game and its players that when presented with an ostensible villain, they will try to shame them instead of simply destroying them. As the whiners in the Sisi-is-dead thread told me: it’s either because you’re not important enough, or that your arrogance/ego is too big, or some combination of both. IDK, they tired to convey some mix of that to me. Granted, it’s important enough to sling mud and personal attacks through typing on the forum, but heaven forbid taking personal initiative, undocking, PvP-ing, and creating a player story when instead they could be doing the real important thing: grinding ISK and 💩 talking forums! ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 1:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/183 "2023-09-08T13:00:43Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Granted, it’s important enough to sling mud and personal attacks through typing on the forum, but heaven forbid taking personal initiative, undocking, PvP-ing, and creating a player story when instead they could be doing the real important thing: grinding ISK and 💩 talking forums! Yeah, why rock the boat when you can have the comfortable familiarity of logging in and doing the same thing every day like it’s your day job? These people who are acting like I shouldn’t have made this thread aren’t even conscious of the fact that it’s like the most interesting EVE-related thing they’ve experienced this year. They just want to neg, because negging is the only thing they know how to do after a lifetime of keeping true to their suburbanite routines. “How _ **dare** _ they make a new flavor of the soda I like? I won’t even try it. The original is already perfect, for _everyone!_” ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 1:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/184 "2023-09-08T13:19:12Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Also, it’s quite telling about the state of the game and its players that when presented with an ostensible villain, they will try to shame them instead of simply destroying them. The game’s various villains are the best thing about the game. They are the _only_ thing preventing the entire universe descending into mind-numbing mediocrity…and the needed constant reminder that we all signed up for a PvP game. ---
**Author:** ![Sienna\_Massilia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sienna_massilia/32/390388_2.png) [@Sienna\_Massilia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sienna_Massilia)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 1:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/185 "2023-09-08T13:36:53Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > keeping true to their suburbanite routines. Never lived in a city’s suburb. I come from and live in a small village. All your posts in this forum contain nothing but grossly and obscenely exaggerated and insulting generalities made by, it seems, someone who’s never left his mom’s basement and spends all his time online bashing boomers, zoomers, Xers and other generational descriptives between two hotpockets and a bag of Doritos. ---
**Author:** ![Arya\_Yeshe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arya_yeshe/32/397211_2.png) [@Arya\_Yeshe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arya_Yeshe)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/186 "2023-09-08T13:46:00Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > arrogance/ego is too big arrogance only hurts when it collides against another mass of arrogance, they would not feel a thing if they weren’t arrogant themelves Anyway, I think Destiny’s behaviour fine, not that she needs anyone defending her, she doesnt at all ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 3:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/187 "2023-09-08T15:18:49Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Oh nooo, what am I going to do _now?_ _and the rest of the rant about boomers, nullsec, Kool-Aid and how you’re not getting attention_ ![classic-frankly](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/0/c/e/0cef0cc159b85951d6d0b1fad2ef29e1d3ecb2fb.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 5:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/188 "2023-09-08T17:11:21Z")
> [@Sienna\_Massilia](#): > > This is a cleverly disguised whine thread. What ship of yours did Destiny destroy? You seem quite salty even for a “whine thread” ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 5:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/189 "2023-09-08T17:17:56Z")
> [@Sienna\_Massilia](#): > > Never lived in a city’s suburb. I come from and live in a small village. Riiiight… > [@Sienna\_Massilia](#): > > a small village. > All your posts in this forum contain nothing but grossly and obscenely exaggerated and insulting generalities made by, it seems, someone who’s never left his mom’s basement and spends all his time online bashing boomers, zoomers, Xers and other generational descriptives between two hotpockets and a bag of Doritos. Wow, look at all that weirdly specific ad hominem. Sounds like projection to me. I take my question back. It’s obvious that Destiny didn’t destroy a ship of yours. Based on your reaction, I’d venture to guess that she nailed you in an AFK freighter trundling its way to Amarr and you lost a few bil isk. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 5:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/190 "2023-09-08T17:26:40Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > It’s silly to add a game mechanic which protects nullblocs > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > There is no such game mechanic. …but there is. You cannot wardec a nullbloc unless you put down a station. However, the nullbloc has thousands of players, and one person obviously cannot expect to defend a structure. So while an individual can technically wardec, they can’t realistically. So the change to wardecs benefited the largest groups in the game, making them effectively immune to wardecs from smaller groups. That’s the gist of Destiny’s argument, and it’s a valid point. Why should the largest groups in the game be effectively immune to wardecs from solitary players? That’s not balanced. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 6:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/191 "2023-09-08T18:13:10Z")
> [@Sienna\_Massilia](#): > > I come from and live in a small village. And you play EVE from this small backward village with no internet? ---
**Author:** ![Azazod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/azazod/32/336190_2.png) [@Azazod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Azazod)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 6:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/192 "2023-09-08T18:41:25Z")
If you want to be able to fight the big null blocks, get together with a few thousand of your closest space friends and do it. Though I’ll wager you crybears likely have no friends. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/193 "2023-09-08T18:46:09Z")
Yes, of course, everyone can bring 10,000 people and blob - but why shouldn’t a solo player be able to wardec a larger group? It seems obvious that one person, versus the entirety of nullsec, is already weighted in favor of nullbears. So I’m having a hard time understanding how it is balanced to introduce a mechanic which amplifies the effectiveness of a large group, effectively ensuring that an individual can’t declare war. The wardec changes were intended to protect small groups, but they have merely ensured that small groups have no chance against a larger group. I can’t think of any reason, other than cowardice, for nullblobs to want this. ---
**Author:** ![Sienna\_Massilia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sienna_massilia/32/390388_2.png) [@Sienna\_Massilia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sienna_Massilia)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 7:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/194 "2023-09-08T19:10:09Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Why should the largest groups in the game be effectively immune to wardecs from solitary players? That’s not balanced Because one guy can’t attack an army by himself and hope to achieve anything but his own assured demise. > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > they can’t realistically. Exactly. It’s not a question of balance but common sense… realistically. > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > That’s the gist of Destiny’s argument, and it’s a valid point It isn’t. It’s not an argument. It’s just whining because he can’t declare a one-man war. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 7:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/195 "2023-09-08T19:28:45Z")
> [@Sienna\_Massilia](#): > > one guy can’t attack an army by himself and hope to achieve anything but his own assured demise. Are you trying to make an argument based on real-life? In real-life, one person certainly can declare war by themself (without a war headquarters), and they can win. It’s called asymmetric warfare, and it’s one of the most fundamental concepts in military strategy. The wardec changes prevent this, forcing solo players into an arena. Why shouldn’t guerilla warfare be an option, allowing skillful players to skirmish and raid? Why are nullsec alliances so cowardly, that they insist upon an easy automated win? ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 7:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/196 "2023-09-08T19:50:34Z")
> [@Sienna\_Massilia](#): > > Because one guy can’t attack an army by himself and hope to achieve anything but his own assured demise Destiny has in the past attacked a null block until they asked her to stop . I think they paid isk for her to stop in the end . Seems to me null groups want it all their way , they don’t like being ganked , they don’t like wars , they don’t even like being hunted and caught when flying in high sec . Safe passage into high sec should be earned not a right . So if your group wants to act the big I am null ass hat expect people like DC to want to war Dec you for the hell of it , seems like legitimate gameplay to me. Ps let me know when her demise his schedule for , will be fun to watch 😊 ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 7:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/197 "2023-09-08T19:56:56Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > The wardec changes prevent this, Hope your well , just a quick question , has there been changes why I’ve been away to wars ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/198 "2023-09-08T19:59:09Z")
The main change is people find setting an alarm clock, for their job grinding structures, to be so boring that it feels like mining - but for less isk. So there’s been less activity, since nobody really wants to play the game. People enjoy PvP content, but when you set up so many barriers to PvP, it kind of kills the game. In the good ol days, there were more wardecs, continual activity across Highsec. The player count was higher, because people had fun. I heard there were some recent issues with tidi, which is amplified by CCP’s structure driven BIG BATTLE focus. Anyone know what I’m talking about? #BRINGSOLOBACK ---
**Author:** ![Sienna\_Massilia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sienna_massilia/32/390388_2.png) [@Sienna\_Massilia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sienna_Massilia)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 8:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/199 "2023-09-08T20:22:19Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Are you trying to make an argument based on real-life? No, I’m only reacting to yours: > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > realistically > [@Githany\_Red](#): > > So if your group wants to act the big I am null ass hat expect people like DC to want to war Dec you for the hell of it Sure, I don’t care. It just doesn’t make sense > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > realistically So if the mechanics are changed to allow for that it doesn’t make a difference to me. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 10:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/200 "2023-09-08T22:31:32Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > You cannot wardec a nullbloc unless you put down a station. However, the nullbloc has thousands of players, and one person obviously cannot expect to defend a structure. So while an individual can technically wardec, they can’t realistically. Let’s turn that around and see how it looks from there. _When_ a player (or group) _does_ have a structure it makes wardecs possible. None of us know for certain what ccp’s reasoning was, but one of the possible avenues was to not make these structures gratuitous for just about any 1-man corp in hisec. After all, they have the potential to create substantial income when used right. In that light, it has nothing to do at all with nullsec groups. Second, let’s imagine wardecs would be possible for solo characters or small groups without a structure, and let’s imagine they are willing to pay the 100M per week fee to keep the war going. What would be the benefit ? They legitimize any and all attacks in hisec and lowsec, on top of the usual ad hoc ganking in hisec. For the defender (let’s say a large nullbloc) there is no built-in possibility of an end goal in that war - **it could literally perpetuate itself** because there is no war HQ to blow up to end the war. Sounds like a good idea to have this in the game ? Why would you give individuals a clear advantage over a large group in terms of constant hisec attacks, especially since third parties can fund that type of “activity” no questions asked. Would you not consider this a situation where you deny null (or w-space etc) groups the existence of a hisec zone on the map ? Third, on the type of structure a solo aggressor needs to anchor. Currently it’s either a normal structure or a POCO. Now why should a large nullsec block be punished (as a defender) in having to field the same amount of firepower to finish a war HQ of a single aggressor as it has for a regular war with a sizeable group ? You see the imbalance there too ? Yet, that imbalance is in the game to this day. Four, a solo war instigator can have as many allies as he or she wants, often at token fees (if at all). Imagine that these solo wardec’ers would not even need a structure as a possible war ending goal. Instead of dealing cards, why not just hand the full deck to the (hisec) aggressor, right ? Disrupt all communication lines for the small small fee of 100M per week, let someone else pay for it, and let the aggressor not run any risk at all, while so-called allies can do the work. Sure. Good plan. And that’s why it’s bad for the game. That is not to say that the wardec mechanisms in the game couldn’t be iterated on, but that is something you really should take up with CCP, instead of supporting a bubbleheaded thread about cowardice and yaddayadda. Is there a point to wardec’ing large nullsec (or w-space or w/e) groups ? You tell me why it happens. That will also give you the answer why your extra wishes would make the hassle very one-sided. I’m sure I can get better answers from you than from OP. Note added in EDIT: There are likely more elements that could be discussed. Even on eve-uni wiki the information is far from complete e.g., do allies need warHQ’s, do they share any costs with the defender or are they merely some type of mercenaries - it’s not mentioned. And I’m not a subject matter expert on pure wardec mechanisms. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 10:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/201 "2023-09-08T22:45:00Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Third, on the type of structure a solo aggressor needs to anchor. Currently it’s either a normal structure or a POCO. Now why should a large nullsec block be punished (as a defender) in having to field the same amount of firepower to finish a war HQ of a single aggressor as it has for a regular war with a sizeable group ? You see the imbalance there too ? Yet, that imbalance is in the game to this day. > > Four, a solo war instigator can have as many allies as he or she wants, often at token fees (if at all). Imagine that these solo wardec’ers would not even need a structure as a possible war ending goal. Instead of dealing cards, why not just hand the full deck to the (hisec) aggressor, right ? Disrupt all communication lines for the small small fee of 100M per week, let someone else pay for it, and let the aggressor not run any risk at all, while so-called allies can do the work. Sure. Good plan. And that’s why it’s bad for the game. For someone who seems to have almost no understanding of how the war declaration mechanics actually work, you sure do have a lot of very strong opinions about this gameplay element. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078.md?page=11)