# Nullsec Alliance Cowardice Ladder **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [August 31, 2023, 3:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078 "2023-08-31T03:52:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 2:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/262 "2023-09-10T02:00:55Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > It’s fine to say that wardeccers should have ‘skin in the game’, or be prevented from declaring war on every poor little newbro who wants 0% taxes, but why should a wardec HQ be the litmus test? Doesn’t a wardec HQ simply give an overwhelming advantage to whichever side has N+1? If you want to limit wardecs, couldn’t you achieve a satisfactory outcome by merely increasing the wardec cost, rather than forcing the one player corporation to provide an easy win to the 10,000 player alliance? I see the point…but under the old non war HQ system the 10,000 player alliance could wardec the 1 man corp anyway. So I also see how the requirement for war HQ ‘protects’ small corps from being harassed. So it would have been better if CCP had simply added an ’ I want to be harassed’ opt-in option. There again, that is surely what mutual wars are for. In which case there needs to be some incentive for the Mega-Blob corps to accept mutual wars. Or make it so that a mutual war from a corp below a certain size cannot be declined if one’s own corp is above a certain size. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 2:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/263 "2023-09-10T02:25:41Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > but under the old non war HQ system the 10,000 player alliance could wardec the 1 man corp anyway. And what’s the issue there? They’d have to hunt ships, instead of bashing stationary, likely undefended structures. And since those groups are very cowardly, they wouldn’t go out to hunt ships _anyway._ > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > So I also see how the requirement for war HQ ‘protects’ small corps from being harassed. How does it protect small groups from being harassed? Which of the small groups who got war declarations from BF, SRS, CAPSTEXT, and Bully Brigade are being protected from harassment while these groups farm their structures for cores and protection money? ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 4:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/264 "2023-09-10T04:25:04Z")
Why don’t we just remove all structures from high sec, remove structures as a requirement for wars, and being back the old war dec mechanic? ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 5:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/265 "2023-09-10T05:06:17Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > after you’ve just advertised that you have a nice juicy quantum core for the grabbing ? That is the point, War HQs SUCK. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 8:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/266 "2023-09-10T08:13:52Z")
I would say that I came in perhaps after the real discussion with CCP had ended, it did not seem as if CCP were that interested in what was being said as they hardly appeared, but they might have read some of the exchanges. But the meaningful points were hidden behind lots of insults and anger by certain players mainly against me for merely explaining why most of the people did not fight and trying to suggest ways to change that. I must say that I was shocked to see the group of war deccers that were active there supported removing neutral RR for example. They also believed that merely being in space with a ship was enough skin in the game, these people were representative of smaller war deccers who had been beaten by larger war deccers, so they would have that view. I came at it from the point of view of the subset of people on the other side that wanted to make wars real wars with fights and stuff. I tried to make them see the difficulty of getting people keen to fight and why the then system was not working in regards to that group of players. It was hard enough to get people to fight even with the war HQ change, but the neutral RR change and no allowance for allying killed it. When that happened I knew it would fail for what I wanted, and fail it did. I had also suggested putting up an observatory that enabled conflict at the level of a system, several systems or a region that was easy to destroy and easy to locate, but that one also got ignored, to me that was the best system and the neatest way to make it fun. As for the OP’s point, I do wish that nullsec alliances would do hunter killer groups to go after war deccers every so often. I know however that it is boring in that you cannot force the war deccer to fight, most of the time they dock and log off so the interest is not there. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 8:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/267 "2023-09-10T08:15:10Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > hisec islands hehe, was also thinking about (not yet existing) nullsec islands … just kidding > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > The point of this thread isn’t to discuss high-sec war declaration mechanics; it is to make fun of and mock null-sec alliance for being cowardly. A noble purpose, but based on the wrong premise. And here’s the beginnings of a chance to fix your preferred playstyle in hisec. I doubt you will land a CSM rep of your own, your community being very small and, let’s be honest, the subject being controversial across the majority of hisec. So the best advice I can give you and anyone else who cares about this subject is to think out of the box, converse with _all groups_ involved (yes, including nullsec) to build a proposal for a solution that would be acceptable to all involved, and then you’d have even more CSM reps to talk to ccp about balanced changes to improve what _you_ can do in the game. I also believe you’d get the least resistance from nullsec (they already don’t care a lot about petty hisec wardecs) when you do come up with a decent proposal for changes. Neither would you get resistance from people who understand the nature of the game - and that includes the necessity to have a substantial danger level in hisec. But for Bob’s sake, don’t cry “give us the old mechanics back” and don’t say “grrrrr warHQs”. You’d imply that everyone goes back to repeating the same old _mistakes_ that brought you where you are today. Neither the CSM nor CCP would even give it more than a shrug. Denying nullsec or any other group access to hisec is an obvious mistake as well. Living in nullsec is not the same as being an outlaw, not by _any_ mechanic in the game, ever. Keep that prejudiced nonsense out of your discussions and maybe you’ll get somewhere. Have a balanced dialogue, and come up with a balanced proposal, where _you_ do have substantial skin in the conflict, not just merely be a thorn in the bear’s hide. If you need a few pointers to start your brainstorm, the forums are a good place to ask for them … > [@Dracvlad](#): > > I came at it from the point of view of the subset of people on the other side that wanted to make wars real wars with fights and stuff. I tried to make them see the difficulty of getting people keen to fight and why the then system was not working in regards to that group of players. Exactly. Thanks for the warning. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > I know however that it is boring in that you cannot force the war deccer to fight, most of the time they dock and log off so the interest is not there. Correct. And that could be part of a solution, preventing this behavior from a hisec wardec’r hiding in an npc station. ---
**Author:** ![Sienna\_Massilia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sienna_massilia/32/390388_2.png) [@Sienna\_Massilia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sienna_Massilia)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 8:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/268 "2023-09-10T08:38:28Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > The point of this thread isn’t to discuss high-sec war declaration mechanics; it is to make fun of and mock null-sec alliance for being cowardly. Only an elaborate way to whine on the forum because the big guys ignore you. If you want a war so much then make a corporation, recruit pilots, buy a HQ then declare your war. Can’t be simpler than that but yet you quibble and moan in your malcontent and whine. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 8:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/269 "2023-09-10T08:50:35Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > And here’s the beginnings of a chance to fix your preferred playstyle in hisec. Once again, this isn’t an “idea proposal” thread. This is a thread made for the express purpose of making fun of null-sec and null-sec-adjacent alliances for being cowardly and incompetent. When I’m ready to present an idea for how to fix the war declaration system, I’ll make it in the appropriate forum sub-section. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 8:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/270 "2023-09-10T08:51:12Z")
You can bang the drum, but you can’t control the response, lol. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 8:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/271 "2023-09-10T08:52:59Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Yeah, Lucas was right That was a nice ninja edit, but I already read it. My respect for you is now at zero. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 8:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/272 "2023-09-10T08:54:27Z")
Guess where my respect is for people who demand all liberties for nothing in return. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 8:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/273 "2023-09-10T08:55:23Z")
Maybe he felt a little guilty choosing someone who explicitly said they wanted to see EVE fail and go out of business over someone who gives people solo PvP fights? Regardless, I don’t care how people _respond_ in this thread. They can choose what to type for themselves, I _personally_ am not treating this thread as an “idea” thread. Currently I’m working on entries for Absolute Honor/Will and some other null-sec alliances. But these require additional research so it will take a few days. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 8:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/274 "2023-09-10T08:56:40Z")
Frankly, I don’t give a damn. Putting differences of opinions aside, The guy severely disrupted the forum community and contributed a lot of vitrolic personal attack language. He continues to occasionally sperg on the official discord, drawing frowns from just about everyone he interacts with there. Saying that kind of behavior “is right” is basically saying “I don’t give two shits about anyone besides myself”. ---
**Author:** ![Sargon\_Of\_Amerish](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sargon_of_amerish/32/381433_2.png) [@Sargon\_Of\_Amerish](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sargon_Of_Amerish)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 8:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/275 "2023-09-10T08:58:33Z")
:reversecongaparrot: :reversecongaparrot: :reversecongaparrot: :reversecongaparrot: :reversecongaparrot: :reversecongaparrot: :reversecongaparrot: :reversecongaparrot: :reversecongaparrot: :reversecongaparrot: :reversecongaparrot: :reversecongaparrot: :reversecongaparrot: :reversecongaparrot: :congaparrot: :congaparrot: :congaparrot: :congaparrot: :congaparrot: :congaparrot: :congaparrot: :congaparrot: :congaparrot: :congaparrot: :congaparrot: :congaparrot: :congaparrot: :congaparrot: :aussiereversecongaparrot: :aussiereversecongaparrot: :aussiereversecongaparrot: :aussiereversecongaparrot: :aussiereversecongaparrot: :aussiereversecongaparrot: :aussiereversecongaparrot: :aussiereversecongaparrot: :aussiereversecongaparrot: :aussiereversecongaparrot: :aussiereversecongaparrot: :aussiereversecongaparrot: :aussiereversecongaparrot: :aussiereversecongaparrot: :aussiecongaparrot: :aussiecongaparrot: :aussiecongaparrot: :aussiecongaparrot: :aussiecongaparrot: :aussiecongaparrot: :aussiecongaparrot: :aussiecongaparrot: :aussiecongaparrot: :aussiecongaparrot: :aussiecongaparrot: :aussiecongaparrot: :aussiecongaparrot: :aussiecongaparrot: > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > It’s fine to say that wardeccers should have ‘skin in the game’, or be prevented from declaring war on every poor little newbro who wants 0% taxes, but why should a wardec HQ be the litmus test? Doesn’t a wardec HQ simply give an overwhelming advantage to whichever side has N+1? If you want to limit wardecs, couldn’t you achieve a satisfactory outcome by merely increasing the wardec cost, rather than forcing the one player corporation to provide an easy win to the 10,000 player alliance? > > I truly fail to see why solo players should not be allowed to wardec megaalliances for FREE. Why should there be any cost or requirement? Nullsec players already have nullsec, why should HIghsec also be a safe space for them? 🙌 🙌 🙌 🙌 🙌 🙌 🙌 🙌 🙌 **E** 💯 **X** 💯 **A** 💯 **C** 💯 **T** 💯 **L** 💯 **Y** 🙌 🙌 🙌 🙌 🙌 🙌 🙌 🙌 🙌 ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 9:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/276 "2023-09-10T09:09:42Z")
Here’s the thing, Io. I know exactly what I am trying to do in this half of the thread, and I am aware of the mindsets of certain individuals, even before dravclad shared his experiences with this part of the community. I’m not exactly new to these forums, nor in the discussions of hisec pvp. The “let’s not have a discussion here” ? I can live with it. You know why ? In the end, I can deal with the current wardec rules. If the folks who cannot deal with the current mechanism refuse any help of fixing it, that makes it even easier. You were given a new opener. What you do with it is up to you. And if it takes mentioning “his” name to wake you up, well, I might just do that, lmao. Want to fix the alleged “cowardice” ? Make it worthwhile. It really is that simple !.. Don’t want to fix it ? Fine, because the “cowards” couldn’t care less if you made more threads. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 9:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/277 "2023-09-10T09:17:34Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Here’s the thing, Io. I know exactly what I am trying to do in this half of the thread Ok. Regardless of the specific individuals specific opinions — he could have had the same opinions as me — his behavior was so obnoxious, tattered what little social fabric exists in the forums, demonstrated little empathy for anyone else, and essentially ruined every single thread for years, that it is hard to separate the opinion from the man when it was his business attacking people — the phrase „basement dwelling incels“ comes to mind. You could have picked anyone else, but for some reason you pick this guy as your champion. I believe you when you say you know what you’re doing. So enjoy slowly getting shadowbanned as people ignore you. I can start, here and now. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 9:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/278 "2023-09-10T09:22:08Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > you pick this guy as your champion. hardly, lol. I used his name as a stinger. It worked (after I had redacted him out, but you jumped on it like it was candy). I probably fought him harder than most here… You can find my forum history, or do you need help ? Let’s move on, or not… Strawman indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 9:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/279 "2023-09-10T09:24:11Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Currently I’m working on entries for Absolute Honor/Will and some other null-sec alliances. But these require additional research so it will take a few days. Very sorry for 💩 -ing in your thread. Looking forward to these entries, as I have had interactions in low sec with ABSO and what I suspect was a Governor Lee alt. ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 9:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/280 "2023-09-10T09:44:48Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > As for the OP’s point, I do wish that nullsec alliances would do hunter killer groups to go after war deccers every so often. I know however that it is boring in that you cannot force the war deccer to fight, most of the time they dock and log off so the interest is not there. Maybe CCP need to come up with objectives in a war , the attacker has task to complete to keep war running ,why defender has task to end it . A bit like FW sys so activity is rewarded ,logging off is not I’m also a believer of getting people off their ass and doing stuff , eve is hard work but the pay off can be great . like so many structure owners before when building a one man empire, then cry on the forums that WM are killing all their towers , groups will always have the advantage and CCP needs to make it clear that some paths in eve work best as a group . DC or people like her need a way to keep a war running, if she fails in her task of activity then the war HQ should become open for attack and the war ends . Same for defender , take steps to stop attacks and they get closer to ending the war . Both side are forced into activity but not necessarily PvP action and not logging off to hide . Just some ideas but like you said you need to be mindful of making anything boring, which eve can very easily slip into ---
**Author:** ![Sienna\_Massilia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sienna_massilia/32/390388_2.png) [@Sienna\_Massilia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sienna_Massilia)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 9:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/281 "2023-09-10T09:49:03Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > so it will take a few days. Take a few months, we’re not holding our breath. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078.md?page=13) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078.md?page=15)