# Nullsec Alliance Cowardice Ladder **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [August 31, 2023, 3:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078 "2023-08-31T03:52:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Phaade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/phaade/32/390475_2.png) [@Phaade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Phaade)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/342 "2023-09-29T14:53:18Z")
What are you babbling about? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/343 "2023-09-29T14:53:25Z")
> [@Phaade](#): > > There are far more, however, who fly the same as you. And frankly, we generally view that as cowardice. Because fundamentally it is, even if you won’t admit it. That’s just absurd. Nobody undocks with the _intention_ of losing a ship. I lost a ship in Ahbazon last week…a new character’s first killboard record…but it was folly rather than bravery. And an expendable new Alpha. But by your standards I should feel ‘brave’ for running the gate camp. ’ Hey everyone…I got killed in lowsec…I can’t be a coward ’ ---
**Author:** ![Phaade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/phaade/32/390475_2.png) [@Phaade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Phaade)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 2:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/344 "2023-09-29T14:57:06Z")
I do. And so do many others. Because if you put yourself in a position where retreat is not an option, you may surprise yourself with the results. If, however, you view dropping 14 redeemers with capital logi onto a t1 cruiser as “fun and engaging” pvp… then we are not the same, and you will never surprise yourself. I’m not sure how being caught by a gate camp applies to any of this though. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 2:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/345 "2023-09-29T14:57:38Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Nobody undocks with the _intention_ of losing a ship ![portrait](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/0/406375240009b2a87b4c8307c3e4cac07ab5471d.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 3:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/346 "2023-09-29T15:03:19Z")
Yes, well…you guys don’t just go out and get blown up for no gain or fun. Even the undocking in a corvette has a purpose. I mean its not like you shoot at gate guns and enjoy the fun ship explosion afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 3:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/347 "2023-09-29T15:14:07Z")
> [@Phaade](#): > > If, however, you view dropping 14 redeemers with capital logi onto a t1 cruiser as “fun and engaging” pvp… then we are not the same, and you will never surprise yourself. When that T1 cruiser is one of 30 of them and they are all targetting _your_ Redeemer or whatever…and logi is being neuted by a station…and…well…that’s closer to my experience. I don’t think I have ever once been out in a big fleet whose sole purpose was to drop on some noob in a T1 Caracal or something. But I’ve been on the receiving end of it… I mean…22 Ravens against one Ferox is not exactly a ‘fair’ fight…lol… > **[Ferox | Altara Zemara | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/109208174/)** > > Altara Zemara (Absolute Order IX) lost their Ferox in Old Man Star (Essence). Final Blow by Jade Corinth (The Corinth Clan) flying in a Raven. Total Value: 82,042,431.86 ISK ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 3:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/348 "2023-09-29T15:26:04Z")
> [@Phaade](#): > > What are you babbling about? - You: “There are far more, however, who fly the same as you. And frankly, we generally view that as cowardice.” - Me: “Who is ‘we’? Most people don’t think that kind of PvP is cowardice” - You: “Us ball draggers are built different” - Me: “You ball draggers are like miners? They too think some kinds of PvP are cowardice” Sorry this is too complex a discussion, I’ll drop it. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 4:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/349 "2023-09-29T16:47:17Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > its not like you shoot at gate guns and enjoy the fun ship explosion afterwards You should try it. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/6/6/b/66b4d9a9269a943cfcf762753afb8b7a598bc0ca.jpeg) Now I am confused, you are normally complaining that nobody can be bothered to gank you. Secondly, a ferox is a big fat turkey., hard to resist. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_BeerMonster](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/captain_beermonster/32/495729_2.png) [@Captain\_BeerMonster](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Captain_BeerMonster)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 5:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/350 "2023-09-29T17:02:22Z")
> [@Phaade](#): > > I am always looking for fair fights and so are many others If you take a fair fight in EVE you have already f\*\*\*ed up. The only place you will find these epic 1v1 fights is by simulating them in pyfa. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 6:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/351 "2023-09-29T18:03:15Z")
> [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > Now I am confused, you are normally complaining that nobody can be bothered to gank you. Secondly, a ferox is a big fat turkey., hard to resist. It’s a doctrine ship…mainly because of range. Personally I hate them, and only ever fly them in fleet. I much prefer my laser weapon ships, which are the ones I fly solo all over Eve in. ---
**Author:** ![Sienna\_Massilia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sienna_massilia/32/390388_2.png) [@Sienna\_Massilia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sienna_Massilia)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 6:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/352 "2023-09-29T18:52:04Z")
> [@Captain\_BeerMonster](#): > > I think you need to come back to reality, then go outside and touch some grass ![200w](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/a/f/8/af864dbedab0f18291bb225a00467d4b8236d136.webp) . ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_BeerMonster](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/captain_beermonster/32/495729_2.png) [@Captain\_BeerMonster](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Captain_BeerMonster)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 11:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/353 "2023-09-29T23:12:29Z")
![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/b/6/7/b679834a59c3ef32d8cf0a2663fbdb6aa65b7e34.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Phaade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/phaade/32/390475_2.png) [@Phaade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Phaade)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 2:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/355 "2023-09-30T14:07:34Z")
Good, because you’re straw manning the hell out of something that is very, very simple to understand ---
**Author:** ![Phaade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/phaade/32/390475_2.png) [@Phaade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Phaade)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 2:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/356 "2023-09-30T14:15:34Z")
What even happened there, out of curiosity? that’s one of the fits i loathe flying the most… The fleet rail ferox and RLM caracal doctrines have driven almost as many players out of Eve as newbros joining mining corps ---
**Author:** ![Phaade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/phaade/32/390475_2.png) [@Phaade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Phaade)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/357 "2023-09-30T14:20:05Z")
> [@Captain\_BeerMonster](#): > > > [@Phaade](#): > > > > I am always looking for fair fights and so are many others > > If you take a fair fight in EVE you have already f\*\*\*ed up. > > The only place you will find these epic 1v1 fights is by simulating them in pyfa. I would expect exactly this kind of response from a hi sec ganker with 95% non solo kills, and 95% miner ship kills. It’s like a 7 year olds opinion on the double slit experiment ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/358 "2023-09-30T14:41:19Z")
> [@Phaade](#): > > Good, because you’re straw manning the hell out of something that is very, very simple to understand Yea it is simple: There is only PvP. You don’t have to like the form it takes, when it happens, how it happens, or how many are involved. You call people cowards for engaging in a form of PvP you don’t like. I call you, in turn, silly. I don’t have to like that form of PvP either but I can respect the heck out of building a friend group or large enough organization to blob, it’s hard to get something like that going. 💩 ing on people for being a part of that is silly because it is naive and shows you have not tried to do anything more organized because you’re too busy _having fun_ like a good little consumer. ---
**Author:** ![Phaade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/phaade/32/390475_2.png) [@Phaade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Phaade)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 3:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/359 "2023-09-30T15:27:23Z")
Are you saying that having fun in a game is something… negative? And claiming my position is silly… lol what There is nothing wrong with players forming groups, but forming groups for the sole purpose of hiding behind numbers in pvp engagements is 100% cowardice. You know dang well that Every single one of those players would press that button to win an engagement where they are the ones outnumbered and out gunned, instead of the other way around, if such a button existed. _Every single one of them._ At the end of the day human nature is what it is, I’m really not complaining about it, just calling it what it is. Funny how calling a duck a duck these days is made to be the problem ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 4:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/360 "2023-09-30T16:38:34Z")
> [@Phaade](#): > > Are you saying that having fun in a game is something… negative? For someone so quick to shout „strawman“, you are really great at constructing one quickly rather than engaging. You leave little to the imagination why you fly solo. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 6:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/361 "2023-09-30T18:32:27Z")
> [@Phaade](#): > > What even happened there, out of curiosity? > > that’s one of the fits i loathe flying the most… > > The fleet rail ferox and RLM caracal doctrines have driven almost as many players out of Eve as newbros joining mining corps Oh, that was a station defence, I think. I warped back to fleet just as enemy reinforcements ( the Ravens ) showed up. Doesn’t bother me too much…I have 8 losses but 398 kill records. Yeah I’m not keen on the Ferox, but it is cheap and expendable and useful in large fleets of them. The main advantage is the range…100km or so. One of my other accounts got 15 kills in a Ferox station bash a few weeks back…before losing the Ferox. It’s my overall most lost ship. I’d be more concerned to lose my Nightmare or Leshak, though even there I have backup ones 🙂 Absolute Order does SRP for Ferox losses…so nobody should be leaving via getting blapped. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_BeerMonster](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/captain_beermonster/32/495729_2.png) [@Captain\_BeerMonster](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Captain_BeerMonster)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/362 "2023-09-30T19:23:14Z")
> [@Phaade](#): > > It’s like a 7 year olds opinion on the double slit experiment My opinion was still valid enough for you to go look me up! [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078.md?page=17) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078.md?page=19)