# Nullsec Alliance Cowardice Ladder **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [August 31, 2023, 3:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078 "2023-08-31T03:52:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Storm\_Preldent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/storm_preldent/32/375651_2.png) [@Storm\_Preldent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Storm_Preldent)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 1:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/82 "2023-09-01T01:05:44Z")
You don’t have a structure for us to attack, (its hidden) So literally all there could be is a small fight between us in amarr, and seeming as we are the ones sitting on gate we are more venerable to a surprise attack. So literally you are doing all you can to avoid a fight … something you are calling out other groups for doing. Your a complete hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 1:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/83 "2023-09-01T01:14:37Z")
I don’t know why you’d think that players who have done wars for over 15 years would fall for this. You’re contradicting yourself at every step, and it’s making your alliance look _really bad_ right now. You don’t _want_ a “small fight in Amarr.” What you want is for us to form up our 3-man squad, say that we’re ready and undock, and the moment we get weapon timers, 20 Ikitursas and 20 Guardians appear on grid. Then you’d talk some smack in local, and post the kill mails on the forums, telling everyone how “bad” we are. I’m not even sure why you’re trying to convince anyone this isn’t the case, considering that you can’t even control yourself to stop talking about how much you blob smaller enemies _in the same posts_ where you talk about how people who don’t fight you are cowards. If you want to trap someone into giving you easy kills, at least stop constantly talking about how all you do is try to trap players for easy kills? That just seems like _common sense_ to me. Behavior like this reeks of null-sec lemmings. And _that’s_ why you’re going on the list. ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/1/9/8/19888f3b54ffe4f725c6bb1d6edf618150e22cbd.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 5:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/84 "2023-09-01T05:58:11Z")
Goonswarm Federation and S R S. have been added to the ladder! ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 9:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/85 "2023-09-01T09:57:34Z")
OP ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/a/2/9/a29540b6cec9ce037cb2d0d37bc41e0b646030af.jpeg) The response so far ![200w (11)](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/1/f/8/1f83fb35a011c5790f6d53001074365aefec27f7.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Apo\_Bong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/apo_bong/32/512751_2.png) [@Apo\_Bong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Apo_Bong)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 10:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/86 "2023-09-01T10:02:45Z")
This is a great thread and I can confirm this 100%. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 10:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/87 "2023-09-01T10:05:16Z")
It has potential. It still needs to convert that potential into actual delivery. Perhaps if Destiny tried this on reddit ? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 10:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/88 "2023-09-01T10:17:37Z")
I can’t post on Reddit. I’ve been banned there since around 2010 because I admitted that I was in Privateer Alliance/The 0rphanage when some guy was going around banning all the “griefers.” Feel free to copy this to there if you want? You have my permission. Also, I was told that you guys sent out a mandate for everyone to avoid Amarr space? Is this true? I kind of feel like it was a troll, but if not, I’d love to see the mail or memo or whatever. I know some other groups _do_ have mandates to avoid systems like Jita and Amarr and to add them to the autopilot avoidance list. ---
**Author:** ![Akkar\_Kardashev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/akkar_kardashev/32/514189_2.png) [@Akkar\_Kardashev](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Akkar_Kardashev)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 10:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/89 "2023-09-01T10:21:10Z")
Unless you’re using a commercial/industrial internet connection, your IP address will have changed hundreds or even thousands of times since 2010, and you will have been free to sign up a new reddit account within 6 months of the ban. Source: Me. I get banned a lot for needling right wing trolls. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 10:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/90 "2023-09-01T10:24:44Z")
Doesn’t that defeat the purpose of the ban, though? If they don’t want me there, I don’t want to be there. 🫤 ---
**Author:** ![Akkar\_Kardashev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/akkar_kardashev/32/514189_2.png) [@Akkar\_Kardashev](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Akkar_Kardashev)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 10:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/91 "2023-09-01T10:26:51Z")
It’s a whole website containing hundreds, if not thousands of communities. The entity that banned you was, at most, one full human. He’s the Security Guard at the front gate who acts like he owns the whole company. Not to be taken seriously or abided with imho. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 10:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/92 "2023-09-01T10:36:46Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Feel free to copy this to there if you want? You have my permission. I don’t have a reddit account, never posted there. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Also, I was told that you guys sent out a mandate for everyone to avoid Amarr space? Haven’t seen anything. It would surprise me if they had, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 11:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/93 "2023-09-01T11:35:19Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > begging others to fight their group while outnumbered twenty to one, and basically AFK-farming PvE by shooting undefended structures all day Why would ’ don’t undock what you can’t afford to lose ’ apply any less to structures ? I find the whole logic of being anti ‘people punching down’ somewhat bizarre. Are the only valid fights in Eve now Herons vs Titans ? If someone places a structure and they are unable or unwilling to defend it…whose fault is that ? In a game that’s all about blowing stuff up…why would anyone _not_ seize the opportunity to do so ? Some misguided notion of what is ‘fair’ ? And yet, you are the first person to find it totally fair when half a dozen Catalysts blow up a Retriever. You’ve been among those arguing the miner or hauler should ‘get good’. So why the inverse logic for structures ? Eve has been around more than long enough for there to be some alliance of smallholder corps. There’s plenty of capacity for any form of ’ you help protect us…we’ll help protect you’…which occasionally does actually happen. But I guess that might mean paying something, or having some obligation…and not simply raking in the profits alone. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/new_order_enforcer/32/387867_2.png) [@New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/New_Order_Enforcer)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 11:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/94 "2023-09-01T11:45:38Z")
I believe The Initiative deserves even more points just because of this pre-arranged topic with CCP [https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/an-open-and-honest-letter-to-ccp-from-an-alliance-leader) It cant get lower than this ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 12:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/95 "2023-09-01T12:10:45Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > If someone places a structure and they are unable or unwilling to defend it…whose fault is that ? In a game that’s all about blowing stuff up…why would anyone _not_ seize the opportunity to do so ? Some misguided notion of what is ‘fair’ ? It has nothing to do with fairness, and everything to do with bad game design. Players are entitled to act in the most profitable, efficient way possible within the confines of the game’s rules, and I never fault them for doing so (though I will definitely _make fun_ of them acting in an unseemly manner). However, that doesn’t mean that the game rules themselves are equitable, enjoyable, or even rational. Imagine if the Monopoly rule book told players to supply as much of their own money as they wanted. You probably wouldn’t want to play whenever your multimillionaire friend was around. And yet, this is _exactly_ the kind of gameplay we get in an environment that exists to reward a laser-like focus on N+1 mechanics. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > And yet, you are the first person to find it totally fair when half a dozen Catalysts blow up a Retriever. No I’m not. I find the concept of ganking in EVE, in the form that it exists, _massively_ flawed, and _always_ did. You’re twisting my beliefs around, which are that ganking in its current form is preferable to the specific alternative of no ganking at all, and also that it would be preferable for ganking to exist in a different form entirely (one based on a rational system of player-driven consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Akkar\_Kardashev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/akkar_kardashev/32/514189_2.png) [@Akkar\_Kardashev](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Akkar_Kardashev)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 12:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/96 "2023-09-01T12:14:04Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Imagine if the Monopoly rule book told players to supply as much of their own money as they wanted. You probably wouldn’t want to play whenever your multimillionaire friend was around. Err, it would literally be the one player I absolutely would want to play against. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Baird](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wesley_baird/32/455827_2.png) [@Wesley\_Baird](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wesley_Baird)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/97 "2023-09-01T13:42:49Z")
I for one enjoyed your post about us, the amount of time you spent on it is heart warming. Perhaps if you want to make your post look better you’d post my loss to Phoenix. Or does my loss mean we were engaging with Phoenix which sort of goes against your entire theme…idk. I do enjoy one of the most risk adverse players in all of eve calling out players for doing exactly what you do. In our one 'war" which lasted more than a couple of day the only time I saw you in space was in insta warping ships. You have several scouts ensuring that you only take comfortable fights. Smart of you I say. The odd thing is when you see logical behaviour in other players, you insult them for essentially not giving you easy kills. This is the theme of all of your ratings. This is all a giant complaint on how you dont get enough easy kills as far as I can tell, plus a little trolling. The trolling i dont get, because you really arent trying to get a fight, so why bother trolling? You think your post embarrasses anyone? You should stick to your new found eve activity, Care Bear Crossing Guard: Keeping Amarr safe. Im sure its very enjoyable gameplay. ---
**Author:** ![Akkar\_Kardashev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/akkar_kardashev/32/514189_2.png) [@Akkar\_Kardashev](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Akkar_Kardashev)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/98 "2023-09-01T13:46:27Z")
All gankers do this. The smack talk you get out of them when they miss you and you dock up is some of the most hypocritical I’ve ever seen. I’m sitting getting called a f\*\*\*\*t because I won’t feed a nereus to 3 hecates and 6 catalysts. They themselves can often be seen being escorted from Jita to PF with like 6 support ships, sticking close by even in 1.0 systems. Yet I am the f\*\*\*\*t. Sure 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 2:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/99 "2023-09-01T14:01:29Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > one based on a rational system of player-driven consequences. But any mechanic that allows more fighting is never going to escape the N+1 issue anyway. Short of imposing some style of arena type conditions for all fights…which I doubt anyone would want and it would totally negate the whole sandbox style of things. The stronger or larger will always gang up on the weaker or smaller…that is the very nature of Eve. The ‘solution’ is not to tinker around with the game but for the weak to become strong. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Baird](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wesley_baird/32/455827_2.png) [@Wesley\_Baird](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wesley_Baird)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 2:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/100 "2023-09-01T14:04:15Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > But when some group comes by to poke around on occasion (e.g. [The Red Kings Guard](https://zkillboard.com/corporation/98423858/), [Phoenix Naval Systems](https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99004604/), and [ATLAS CORPORATION S.A](https://zkillboard.com/corporation/98608010/)), they are strangely quiet, sitting inside their space hut and waiting for the threat to go away so they can get back to farming the empty pods of players looking for an express ride to their null-sec homes. So the readers of this forum understand how Destiny loves to spin a tale. Our good friends at The Red King Guards actually defended their stations (somehow while we were docked, they defended) [https://zkillboard.com/related/30005069/202304272000/](https://zkillboard.com/related/30005069/202304272000/) They got some nice kills on us, was a very fun fight. I am not sure how they managed those kills since as Destiny pointed out, were dock up when they are around. My loss to Phoenix, I wish I could figure out how I keep losing ships while docked. I know Destiny is a master of not losing ships while docked, perhaps I need to learn. (Serious note, love the folks at Phoenix, they have an open invitation to join us, they are always great to deal with) > **[Paladin | Wesley Baird | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/110023129/)** > > Wesley Baird (The SRS) lost their Paladin in Sarum Prime (Domain). Final Blow by Bacon vG (Phoenix Naval Operations) flying in a Widow. Total Value: 3,213,443,376.32 ISK Atlas, I do not actually remember any good kills or losses from them. I do know the last time we war decced them (not sure why we would do that if all we want to do is hide from them) they made themselves war ineligible. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/b/6/e/b6e9623874a445f5043436fcb82f6b69906f6ce4.png) The real question everyone should ask, if you are such an awesome high-sec merc, why hasnt anyone recruited you? ---
**Author:** ![New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/new_order_enforcer/32/387867_2.png) [@New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/New_Order_Enforcer)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 2:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078/101 "2023-09-01T14:23:55Z")
I do reduce the number of gankers as much as possible to make the kill as beautiful as possible. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nullsec-alliance-cowardice-ladder/418078.md?page=6)