# Oaths of Loyalty and Reflections upon the new year **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [January 6, 2020, 4:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/oaths-of-loyalty-and-reflections-upon-the-new-year/210211 "2020-01-06T16:35:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 7:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/oaths-of-loyalty-and-reflections-upon-the-new-year/210211/21 "2020-01-06T19:30:10Z")
An oath is a statement of intent, public or otherwise. In a climate where they are made far too freely, I find it easier to trust in nobility of character than words lightly given. Not a trait I generally associate with those who change allegiances so often as courtiers change clothes. ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/oaths-of-loyalty-and-reflections-upon-the-new-year/210211/22 "2020-01-06T19:35:35Z")
> [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](#): > > What’s the point of it In short, I am reaffirmig my identity as a Matari Loyalist capsuleer, both to myself and others. Not, as you suggests for the sake of receiving shoulder pats. I can get into the whole “identity’” part behind it, but Psychology is not my area of expertise. While I understand the concepts that underpin it, I would be doing it a disservice from trying to explain. I’ll let more qualified individuals pick up that thread should it arise. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 7:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/oaths-of-loyalty-and-reflections-upon-the-new-year/210211/23 "2020-01-06T19:40:54Z")
So, one of mine, and one of the Brutor Tribe, posts an Oath to his clan and his Republic, and suddenly the thread is full of _foreigners_ questioning it, explaining it, arguing it, talking back at it, putting it down, demanding explanations? Go ■■■■ yourselves, the lot of you. _This_ is why we cannot have nice things. ---
**Author:** ![Astaire\_Quatrevaux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/astaire_quatrevaux/32/278706_2.png) [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Astaire_Quatrevaux)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 7:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/oaths-of-loyalty-and-reflections-upon-the-new-year/210211/24 "2020-01-06T19:46:38Z")
> [@Lyra\_North-Onren](#): > > You can sure enough usually easily see what somebody’s principles actually are, but what an oath does is clarify what principles somebody claims to adhere to. It makes it easier to call out hypocrites and hold people accountable for their acts. This is fair in theory, but in practice–as we’ve recently seen–no one _actually_ suffers consequences for their actions. When a capsuleer is called out here, does anything really come of it? On the one hand, those who would heed being called out would more likely listen to friends than rabble-rousers on a forum. And those who wouldn’t, well, there’s not much difference either way. Even the most diabolical individuals can find support somewhere. > [@Cain\_Aloga](#): > > In short, I am reaffirmig my identity as a Matari Loyalist capsuleer, both to myself and others. Your membership in Electus Matari manages that just fine. > [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > So, one of mine, and one of the Brutor Tribe, posts an Oath to his clan and his Republic, and suddenly the thread is full of _foreigners_ questioning it, explaining it, arguing it, talking back at it, putting it down, demanding explanations? Were you expecting something different? ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 8:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/oaths-of-loyalty-and-reflections-upon-the-new-year/210211/25 "2020-01-06T20:00:32Z")
> [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](#): > > Your membership in Electus Matari manages that just fine. It does not, in fact. You do not have to be a tribal loyalist to join EM. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/oaths-of-loyalty-and-reflections-upon-the-new-year/210211/26 "2020-01-06T20:01:22Z")
> [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](#): > > Were you expecting something different? Yes, in fact: When we did these Oath threads of old, people _did_ mostly respect the ritual, the same as we mostly respect the Amarr ones still today, and take discussions elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Lasairiona\_Raske](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lasairiona_raske/32/467893_2.png) [@Lasairiona\_Raske](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lasairiona_Raske)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 8:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/oaths-of-loyalty-and-reflections-upon-the-new-year/210211/27 "2020-01-06T20:14:11Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > _This_ is why we cannot have nice things. Have we ever had nice things? ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 8:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/oaths-of-loyalty-and-reflections-upon-the-new-year/210211/28 "2020-01-06T20:19:39Z")
> [@Lasairiona\_Raske](#): > > Have we ever had nice things? Did I say we did? ---
**Author:** ![Astaire\_Quatrevaux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/astaire_quatrevaux/32/278706_2.png) [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Astaire_Quatrevaux)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 11:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/oaths-of-loyalty-and-reflections-upon-the-new-year/210211/29 "2020-01-06T23:52:19Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > It does not, in fact. You do not have to be a tribal loyalist to join EM. Ah yes, Kalaratiri. I’ll concede this point. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 11:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/oaths-of-loyalty-and-reflections-upon-the-new-year/210211/30 "2020-01-06T23:54:36Z")
> [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](#): > > Ah yes, Kalaratiri. I’ll concede this point. For someone supposedly working to build bridges and ■■■■, you truly have a knack for intentionally(?) misunderstanding and insulting. ---
**Author:** ![Astaire\_Quatrevaux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/astaire_quatrevaux/32/278706_2.png) [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Astaire_Quatrevaux)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 11:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/oaths-of-loyalty-and-reflections-upon-the-new-year/210211/31 "2020-01-06T23:57:16Z")
I’m annoyed. Mostly with the people in this thread. So I’ve been building my bridges elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 2:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/oaths-of-loyalty-and-reflections-upon-the-new-year/210211/32 "2020-01-07T02:34:50Z")
They certainly do get bent out of shape if anyone questions their own annual public oaths, though, don’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 4:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/oaths-of-loyalty-and-reflections-upon-the-new-year/210211/33 "2020-01-07T04:46:43Z")
Oaths are to be given once. Of course, you can repeat it whenever you want and recite it as a mantra before the sleep if you are afraid you would forget it, but you CAN’T reaffirm it once you broke it. Because once you do, it loses all the power, you become an oathbreaker, and no confirmation or reaffirmation would make others believe you. A traitor once - a traitor for life. I have given my oath of allegiance to the State when I was 15 years old. Since then I never felt a need to repeat it and never have broken it. Because that’s what makes me Caldari. And because breaking oath of allegiance is the worst of the crimes and the most amoral step one could have committed in their life. Any change of allegiance is a treason, it doesn’t matter which side was good, which side was bad. Which you were born in, which your ancestors came from. The treason is a treason. If you gave allegiance to one side, you shall stick to them till death, otherwise you will become scum. And when that happens, no reaffirmation will change that, because if you changed your allegiance once, you can do that again. There is no reason than can excuse treason. ---
**Author:** ![Anabella\_Rella](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anabella_rella/32/515671_2.png) [@Anabella\_Rella](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anabella_Rella)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/oaths-of-loyalty-and-reflections-upon-the-new-year/210211/34 "2020-01-07T17:31:03Z")
To give credit where it’s due; at least the Amarr haven’t been crapping up this thread. They understand the importance of a public oath. ---
**Author:** ![Astaire\_Quatrevaux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/astaire_quatrevaux/32/278706_2.png) [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Astaire_Quatrevaux)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 5:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/oaths-of-loyalty-and-reflections-upon-the-new-year/210211/35 "2020-01-07T17:35:58Z")
I don’t understand the importance of a public oath. That’s the point. I simply asked a question. If that’s “crapping up this thread”, then people asking questions everywhere is just the same. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/oaths-of-loyalty-and-reflections-upon-the-new-year/210211/36 "2020-01-07T19:12:11Z")
> [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](#): > > looks far too much like the affirmations to the Empress > [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](#): > > in an attempt to gain shoulder pats. > [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](#): > > nice touch of PR, but too thin to bear scrutiny > [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](#): > > if not self-serving showmanship? > [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](#): > > Such oaths are worthless. > [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](#): > > I simply asked a question. Yea, right. ---
**Author:** ![Astaire\_Quatrevaux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/astaire_quatrevaux/32/278706_2.png) [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Astaire_Quatrevaux)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/oaths-of-loyalty-and-reflections-upon-the-new-year/210211/37 "2020-01-07T19:33:14Z")
–Yes? ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/oaths-of-loyalty-and-reflections-upon-the-new-year/210211/38 "2020-01-07T19:57:36Z")
None of the bits quoted are “simply asking a question”. … seriously, if that needs to be explained to someone supposedly supporting a _peace-making circle_? ---
**Author:** ![Astaire\_Quatrevaux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/astaire_quatrevaux/32/278706_2.png) [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Astaire_Quatrevaux)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 1:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/oaths-of-loyalty-and-reflections-upon-the-new-year/210211/39 "2020-01-08T01:50:10Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > None of the bits quoted are “simply asking a question”. You missed the important bits: > [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](#): > > For what, then? > [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](#): > > Why does it matter whether the person made a flashy announcement on a forum, so long as they adhere to a clear set of principles? > [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](#): > > When a capsuleer is called out here, does anything really come of it? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 1:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/oaths-of-loyalty-and-reflections-upon-the-new-year/210211/40 "2020-04-07T01:50:24Z")
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