# October 2018 Release - General Feedback **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** feedback, release, official\ **Created:** [October 9, 2018, 9:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059 "2018-10-09T09:40:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Othello\_Warspite](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/othello_warspite/32/146796_2.png) [@Othello\_Warspite](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Othello_Warspite)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 2:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/252 "2018-10-12T02:41:59Z")
would be better to make the ECCM script shorten the cycle time, rather than shorten it for Sebos in general, because that would require a wider cost balance. If it’s just the one script that reduces cycle time, then it can also be balanced by reducing cap costs (which should be programmed in already: ammo does it) ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 2:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/253 "2018-10-12T02:43:36Z")
> [@Othello\_Warspite](#): > > you can still counter ECM. > > It’s not balance. It will never be balance as long as fighting back against ECM is cost free. Only in a one v. one scenario. In all of the other scenarios where you can expect jammers and would likely fit ECCM to deal with it, it’s still a viable thing to fit and it’s not cost free. If you’re in a fleet fight, just being able to target the jammer while the rest of the other guys fleet is pounding on you or you’re trying to stop them from getting away, its still a thing. It’s common in these kinds of balance fixes for the pendulum to go all the way from one side to all the way on the other. That’s why I’m here getting feedback on things we can do to mitigate that. ---
**Author:** ![Scooter6976](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scooter6976/32/272363_2.png) [@Scooter6976](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scooter6976)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/254 "2018-10-12T04:04:29Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Even if I push the ECCM button, there’s a solid chance that it’s going to have no impact and I’m still going to be jammed and left twiddling my thumbs for twenty seconds or more. this is false and you know it. eccm script WORKS 100% OF THE TIME. whether that means you get to shoot back, well, that’s something entirely different. that you Demand such a thing is proof that this is not a balance, it is a bandaid, and in all fairness, it fixes nothing. it breaks many things. ---
**Author:** ![Scooter6976](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scooter6976/32/272363_2.png) [@Scooter6976](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scooter6976)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/255 "2018-10-12T04:10:08Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Khan noted that it’s both the binary nature (all or nothing) as well as the RNG coupled together that make this such a frustrating mechanic. That’s the thing - if the roll lands right, you can’t target anything for 20 seconds minimum. That’s an eternity in a fight. And there’s nothing you can do, at that point, but try to get away or die. That’s why folks are frustrated by it we all Know what the frustration is. what is beyond ppl with balance in mind, is that the frustration is squarely misplaced on the ecm and rng mechanics themselves. they are not to blame. the blame rests on the shoulders of the person who failed to fit the proper counters to overcome ecm in its more potent forms. that’s the fault of the pilot, not the mechanic or ecm as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Battlingbean](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/battlingbean/32/343946_2.png) [@Battlingbean](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Battlingbean)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/256 "2018-10-12T05:14:59Z")
Did you guys consider changing the jamming formula to vary with more things than just sensor strength? You could allow jam chance to vary with distance for example. The closer you get to the jammer the less chance a jam will succeed. This could allow counter play and under some conditions allow for zero percent chance of successful jam. A lot could be done by simply changing the jamming formula. However, regarding the current mechanic, I simply won’t fly the ships. I didn’t train perfect ECM skills to force people to shoot at me… actually; I trained them so people wouldn’t shoot at me. ---
**Author:** ![Iowa\_Banshee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iowa_banshee/32/218394_2.png) [@Iowa\_Banshee](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iowa_Banshee)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/257 "2018-10-12T06:18:49Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > If I’m being web/scrammed and I use my ECM burst, it works every time. - The ECM burst is also sensor strength vs sensor strength + RNG - It does not work every-time. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > If I’m getting shot, and I hit my ASB or my armor repairers, it works every time. - Your ASB or Armour repairers work AFTER hits they are not shields to prevent damage. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > If I hit my ECCM - there’s still a chance the jam lands. That’s why folks wanted it changed. - The ECCM works like a shield BEFORE the ecm hit NOT like a repair after the damage is taken and what shield is 100% effective? If you want to repair the damage done from a ECM hit (jam) - then make something do just that NOT remove a whole class of ships from the game. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > If I hit my ECCM - there’s still a chance the jam lands. That’s why folks wanted it changed. \*\ ***Negative** There was no mention of this ^^ \*\* The concern was clearly stated as being player agency - being able to do something when jammed - _not the method used to achieve the jam_ It was suggested that this agency would be provided if they could lock the jamming player if you are jammed. The obvious answers would be to give them a chance of breaking their jam once jammed not a freebie lock against an attacker _“ECM is mentioned and CCP Rise feels that being able to do something on the field despite being Jammed would be a necessary change to make a good ECM balance. One idea which was thrown around was to be able to target the ship which is jamming the player”_ ---
**Author:** ![Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/circumstantial_evidence/32/399551_2.png) [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Circumstantial_Evidence)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 7:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/258 "2018-10-12T07:18:28Z")
> [@Iowa\_Banshee](#): > > If you want to repair the damage done from a ECM hit (jam) - then make something do just that NOT remove a whole class of ships from the game. This one comment seems a bit over the top. Jamming ships may be irrelevant now in _certain popular use cases_, but ECM was not made irrelevant everywhere. Jamming drones can still help solo’s escape, and ECM in fleet contexts still interferes with hostile logi. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 9:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/259 "2018-10-12T09:44:35Z")
> [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](#): > > This one comment seems a bit over the top. Your comment understates the impact this has. Caldari ships are not bonused for ECM drones, or drones overall. Many dont even have drone bays, or very small ones. Nor are they effective against drone based ships. This change forces them into a very narrow and situational niche of basically only jamming Logi that dont shoot back. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 1:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/260 "2018-10-12T13:10:06Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Caldari ships are not bonused for ECM drones, or drones overall. > Many dont even have drone bays, or very small ones. > Nor are they effective against drone based ships. > > This change forces them into a very narrow and situational niche of basically only jamming Logi that dont shoot back So would you recommend these ships get bigger drone bays and bonuses for ecm drones or just regular drones? ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 1:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/261 "2018-10-12T13:16:52Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > > > Caldari ships are not bonused for ECM drones, or drones overall. > > Many dont even have drone bays, or very small ones. > > Nor are they effective against drone based ships. > > > > This change forces them into a very narrow and situational niche of basically only jamming Logi that dont shoot back > > So would you recommend these ships get bigger drone bays and bonuses for ecm drones or just regular drones? I’m glad you thought about the same! Its possible, but a quite severe change in the current ship balance across them all. Even more so than this change was to Caldari ships… My preferred solution, would be a reduced chance to damage the jamming target, as a ship, by the jammed ship. Maybe something like no critical/wrecking hits possible, and all are glancing, or increased chance of miss. That would indirectly represent a degree of jamming, and reduce income dps on the jamming ship, by the jammed target. ---
**Author:** ![Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/circumstantial_evidence/32/399551_2.png) [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Circumstantial_Evidence)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 1:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/262 "2018-10-12T13:25:11Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Maybe something like no critical/wrecking hits possible, and all are glancing. That would indirectly represent a degree of jamming, and reduce income dps on the jamming ship, by the jammed target. Sounds like a weapon disruptor. Which is I think what some people are using, now that ECM is “broken.” ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 1:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/263 "2018-10-12T13:35:03Z")
> [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](#): > > > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > > > Maybe something like no critical/wrecking hits possible, and all are glancing. That would indirectly represent a degree of jamming, and reduce income dps on the jamming ship, by the jammed target. > > Sounds like a weapon disruptor. Which is I think what some people are using, now that ECM is “broken.” No quite, but similar. TD and GD have a different effect on mechanic to hit, and what damage they cause. Neither involve drones, specifically. Im talking about a pervasive effect across projectiles/turrets/drones, from being jammed, that affects them all, as less critical/wrecking hits, and more missed hits. So while the jammed ship can still maintain lock on and aggress the jamming ship, its effective dps by all means against it will be substantially reduced, as no critical hits, more misses, and less dmg from missiles. ---
**Author:** ![Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/circumstantial_evidence/32/399551_2.png) [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Circumstantial_Evidence)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 1:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/264 "2018-10-12T13:43:36Z")
Sounds simple enough to implement, then: “You are jammed. You are now doing **X%** _(lengthy discussion about what percentage)_ of normal damage.” _(Penalty does not increase with additional jamming.)_ But, isn’t that better than and obsolete all weapon disruptor modules? ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 1:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/265 "2018-10-12T13:53:33Z")
> [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](#): > > But, isn’t that better than and obsolete all weapon disruptor modules? Indonr know the exact numbers, but ECM already obsoleted weapon disruptor modules before. The tradeoff was the RNG involved in ECM, whereas weapon disruptors apply always. And both had the issue they do not apply to drone ships. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 2:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/266 "2018-10-12T14:12:40Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Yeah, because Suitonia - the guy who has forgotten more about EVE modules than either you or I have ever learned - had no idea what the counter to ECM was. > > Come on, man. I get you don’t like the changes, but be real for a minute. Knowing and doing are two different thing, the change is a hack, a “fix it with the hammer” move. ---
**Author:** ![Xsagaroth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xsagaroth/32/147839_2.png) [@Xsagaroth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xsagaroth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/267 "2018-10-12T14:13:47Z")
Still zero response from CCP on this frankly appalling “balance pass” - I honestly dont know how else we are meant to give feedback other than to just waste our isk fitting scorps, blackbird and rooks as combat ships with 0 ecms and then dying horribly multiple times to “feedback” that this is very poorly thought out. Ive extracted all skills that improve ECM on my characters bar “electronic warfare IV” as that is the only skill you need to be effective with ecm drones, which really are the most broken aspect of ECM, and they work just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 2:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/269 "2018-10-12T14:37:42Z")
> [@Xsagaroth](#): > > Still zero response from CCP on this frankly appalling “balance pass” Not a balance pass, we are in “butt hurt revenge”, just look at last month, they removed the need to dock to unload just because of a tiny hauler scam that most haulers either never fall for, or only fall for once. ---
**Author:** ![Iowa\_Banshee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iowa_banshee/32/218394_2.png) [@Iowa\_Banshee](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iowa_Banshee)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 2:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/270 "2018-10-12T14:46:54Z")
Yes, Drones still do help a solo escape - if they have a drone bay. I won’t list all the ships without drone bays that can no longer use ECM for this purpose. > [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](#): > > and ECM in fleet contexts still interferes with hostile logi. By this, I assume you mean interferes with their role of being primarily logi by adding the role of target caller - when they replace a sebo with a target painter and drone assist clears all the ecm from the field ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/271 "2018-10-12T14:52:17Z")
Example: Fleet mustering up: Q: Hey guys, I fly a perfect Caldari ECM ship, can I join? A: Uhm, why? Q: I can jam a dps ship so it focuses me and drains our Logi. A: Uhh, what else can you do? Q: I can jam a logi, while all their dps focuses me, and drains our Logi. A: What about drone ships? Q: I can jam a drone! A: Yeah, no thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Iowa\_Banshee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iowa_banshee/32/218394_2.png) [@Iowa\_Banshee](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iowa_Banshee)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 2:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/272 "2018-10-12T14:54:59Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > My preferred solution, would be a reduced chance to damage the jamming target, as a ship, by the jammed ship. Don’t forget to ADD a jammed ship cannot use drone assist - most logi will not care about the damage they deal as they will just use assist and a TP [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059.md?page=12) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059.md?page=14)