# October 2018 Release - General Feedback **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** feedback, release, official\ **Created:** [October 9, 2018, 9:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059 "2018-10-09T09:40:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/167 "2018-10-11T15:38:03Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > When I was in law school, one of the hardest things for students to do was to answer the question that was given, without inventing different things that could change the answer and make it easier or harder to solve. We called that “fighting the hypo” and it was a common refrain from Professors - “don’t fight the hypo.” ■■■■ law school the change was lazy bad coding. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/winston_onzo/32/98191_2.png) [@Winston\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Winston_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/168 "2018-10-11T16:56:56Z")
how hard is it to actually fly the ship and give feedback based on flying it, and not based on your feelings ---
**Author:** ![Scooter6976](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scooter6976/32/272363_2.png) [@Scooter6976](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scooter6976)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/169 "2018-10-11T16:58:54Z")
> [@Winston\_Onzo](#): > > how hard is it to actually fly the ship and give feedback based on flying it, and not based on your feelings feelings, is being used sarcastically. it was the original justification for the change in the first place. and its a poor point to balance ships and modules around imo. ---
**Author:** ![Rovinia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rovinia/32/483428_2.png) [@Rovinia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rovinia)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/170 "2018-10-11T17:11:35Z")
The problem is that it is allmost impossible to evaluate the ECM changes seriously before we see the balance pass for the ships that use them. In the current state, most Caldari E-war ships are just broken (especially the Falcon / Rook and the Griffin navy) , but that can change depending on the changes to the ship stats / bonuses. I don’t generaly dislike the changes, ECM was allways a problematic and frustrating game mechanic. What i dislike (and i think most of the criticism comes from this) is that these changes should have been combined with a proper ship rework in the same patch. And why the hurry? ECM was not that big of a problem anymore since the merge of ECCM and Sensor boosters. It has been a long time that i have seen the last falcon alt, most of them switched to logi alts. It just feels as if they unnecessarily broke a bunch of ships with the promise to fix it later. And soon™ in CCP terms can be a very long time 😉 Possible solutions with the current system would be: - Massively increase the tank (can be problematic to balance in terms of small gang and large fleets) - Give all the ships a range bonus like the Scorpion / Blackbird / Kitsune - Make them kiting ships that are hard to catch. Or a mix of those. Best will be to just wait a week and see what they bring up at the Eve Vegas presentation. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 5:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/171 "2018-10-11T17:17:46Z")
It was frankly sloppy workmanship to release the changes without addressing the ships. The excuse, we need to see the impact, was born of lack of knowledge about ECM. If the remaining developers don’t know how something works they need to not touch it. ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_Moe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fluffy_moe/32/11132_2.png) [@Fluffy\_Moe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fluffy_Moe)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/172 "2018-10-11T17:24:35Z")
> [@Rovinia](#): > > Best will be to just wait a week and see what they bring up at the Eve Vegas presentation. Unfortunately, like in many previous ones you’ll end up with largely goons and other big block people asking questions and making comments to steer the game development in order to buff rorqs and cap umbrellas some more. Like always, there will be 1 or 2, sometimes there is 3 people that aren’t within that group and when they do ask stuff and actually get to speak their questions are largely ignored and passed on in favor of goons. Please see multiple past presentations to this account. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > As usual, not helpful and just wasting everybody’s time. You’re wasting most of everybody’s time. You wanna quit wasting time ? Then get off from and / or disband this whole CSM farce. Quit pushing goon / big block development changes. That is the **_biggest_** waste of time of all and you ■■■■ up the whole game for everyone and anyone playing outside of that in the process. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/173 "2018-10-11T17:28:16Z")
My feeewwinngs were hurt, NERF IT I DEMAND IT!!! ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/174 "2018-10-11T17:28:29Z")
> [@Fluffy\_Moe](#): > > You’re wasting most of everybody’s time. You wanna quit wasting time ? Then get off from and / or disband this whole CSM farce. Quit pushing goon / big block development changes. That is the _ **biggest** _ waste of time of all and you ■■■■ up the whole game for everyone and anyone playing outside of that in the process. The biggest waste of time is how many words it took you to write “grr gons hat gons.” Just cut and paste that next time and save yourself the trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/175 "2018-10-11T17:29:44Z")
When is the next CSM election? ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/176 "2018-10-11T17:30:39Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > When is the next CSM election? Probably May. ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_Moe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fluffy_moe/32/11132_2.png) [@Fluffy\_Moe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fluffy_Moe)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/177 "2018-10-11T17:37:07Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > The biggest waste of time is how many words it took you to write “grr gons hat gons.” > > Just cut and paste that next time and save yourself the trouble. Maybe you’re misreading because its not on Reddit. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/178 "2018-10-11T17:38:28Z")
> [@Fluffy\_Moe](#): > > Maybe you’re misreading because its not on Reddit. You mentioned goons three times in the above post. ---
**Author:** ![Iowa\_Banshee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iowa_banshee/32/218394_2.png) [@Iowa\_Banshee](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iowa_Banshee)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/179 "2018-10-11T17:51:12Z")
AFK cloaking is a null thing, its rarely used anywhere else. You’ve got to find a spin on nerfing cloaking so the CSM can at least defend the position to the community as not being a huge buff to nullsec safety. ---
**Author:** ![Iowa\_Banshee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iowa_banshee/32/218394_2.png) [@Iowa\_Banshee](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iowa_Banshee)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/180 "2018-10-11T17:53:17Z")
This forums system is confusing - I like threaded reply to comments - It’s easy to get lost on who you are replying to here ---
**Author:** ![Scooter6976](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scooter6976/32/272363_2.png) [@Scooter6976](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scooter6976)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/181 "2018-10-11T18:01:32Z")
does it matter? really? devs don’t change, and the ‘democratic method’ alone has always been flawed to favor mob rule. make the elections a republic; candidates can run for a section of space (hs/ls/ns/wh), and voters (1 per SUB’d accnt) pick their region of space they will vote on. candidates api are verified for time spent in whatever region they are campaigning to represent and if they spent more time in ns than hs, for example, then they cant run for a hs position. this is the only way to at least Try to get more equal representation imo. scams and general fuckery aside. we will never rid ourselves of the Brisc types, they are the whales ccp and pa want more of. but we don’t have to put the whales in Charge of things either ---
**Author:** ![si\_doom](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/si_doom/32/100173_2.png) [@si\_doom](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/si_doom)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/182 "2018-10-11T19:30:22Z")
need to have a voting record of the csm , who voted for what, then the ones to voted for changes you find wrong, you can vote them out next election, they should have to vote on changes so that a record exists as to who voted for what , i d kick everyone one of them that voted for the ecm nerf, right now seems they re all yes pilots, ---
**Author:** ![Scooter6976](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scooter6976/32/272363_2.png) [@Scooter6976](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scooter6976)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/183 "2018-10-11T19:57:26Z")
> [@si\_doom](#): > > need to have a voting record of the csm , who voted for what, then the ones to voted for changes you find wrong, you can vote them out next election, they should have to vote on changes so that a record exists as to who voted for what , i d kick everyone one of them that voted for the ecm nerf, right now seems they re all yes pilots, still, ccp should know better than to shovel this into the game. mayb 8 yrs ago, when there Really Were fewer counters to ecm, and it Did need nerfing (which it got, multi-faceted). ---
**Author:** ![Unseen\_Spectre](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/unseen_spectre/32/440368_2.png) [@Unseen\_Spectre](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Unseen_Spectre)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/184 "2018-10-11T20:06:04Z")
@Xsagaroth Yes, even if CCP decide to buff the EWAR ships to increase survivability I do not think that they will be viable for solo players since I guess that for combat, the combat ships will be better anyway. ---
**Author:** ![AshenShugar01](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ashenshugar01/32/251233_2.png) [@AshenShugar01](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/AshenShugar01)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/185 "2018-10-11T20:07:25Z")
Speaking of horseshit here’s a member of the current CSM… Brisc one again you fail to engage with people and only listen to your own people. You say you alliance and corp mates hate ECM and you hear it ‘over and over again’ but you fail to acknowledge that clearly there are LOADS of players who think these balance changes, if u can call this nerf hammer a balance, is a terrible idea. But hey nevermind those that disagree with you eh? As long as your isk making efforts for you and your 0.0 cronies is a little safer. And don’t tell me to ‘work on my reading comprehension’ again lol. I’ve read the CSM minutes and the CSM is ALL TALK. They talk about good ideas, and changes that need to be made. They TALK, and thats all because when the changes get proposed you advocate for this BS balance pass instead of the pressing issues. And you wonder why we don’t respect the CSM anymore… why voter turnout is at an all time low… why player confidence in CCP is about as low as it can get. Undoubtedly you’ll say something defensive, at least you are pretending to engage with the players unlike CCP or the rest of the CSM, and then dismiss the criticism because of course you 0.0 guys are right and nevermind the rest of us. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059/186 "2018-10-11T20:40:48Z")
> [@AshenShugar01](#): > > Brisc one again you fail to engage with people and only listen to your own people. You say you alliance and corp mates hate ECM and you hear it ‘over and over again’ but you fail to acknowledge that clearly there are LOADS of players who think these balance changes, if u can call this nerf hammer a balance, is a terrible idea. But hey nevermind those that disagree with you eh? As long as your isk making efforts for you and your 0.0 cronies is a little safer. Tomas, as I noted before, a lot of posts in a single thread doesn’t equal “loads of people.” It’s loads of posts. The vast majority of folks I’ve talked to in game, on the forums, on reddit, and elsewhere do not care about this change. The ones who do are passionate about it, but they don’t represent anything remotely resembling a majority. > [@AshenShugar01](#): > > And don’t tell me to ‘work on my reading comprehension’ again lol. I’ve read the CSM minutes and the CSM is ALL TALK. They talk about good ideas, and changes that need to be made. They TALK, and thats all because when the changes get proposed you advocate for this BS balance pass instead of the pressing issues. It’s funny - we’re all talk until changes that we proposed get put in the game, and then you guys complain about it. > [@AshenShugar01](#): > > And you wonder why we don’t respect the CSM anymore… why voter turnout is at an all time low… why player confidence in CCP is about as low as it can get. Turnout’s not at an all time low. We don’t wonder why the CSM is disrespected. I know full well many of the reasons and one of those reasons is “they never talk to us” which is why I’m here talking to folks. Why is it that if I disagree with you I get accused of dismissing the criticism? I’m not dismissing it. I pass it all on and highlight it for folks to review. I don’t know why the only way to demonstrate that I recognize the criticism is to change my mind and agree with you guys when I don’t. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/october-2018-release-general-feedback/112059.md?page=10)