# Off-Topic Thread vol. 2 **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [July 4, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718 "2019-07-04T14:24:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 105
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 6:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2089 "2020-02-13T18:56:13Z")
Terror actions against civilians, to “put pressure on the leadership” only ever worked in situations where the terrorists could control the media narrative. With the Amarr Certified News, and the Ministry of Internal Order, then… Ushra’Khan do _not_ control the media narrative. _No_ pressure is being put on the leadership of the Amarr Empire, because there is literally no way that the ACN would rebroadcast the U’K footage unedited. If the common citizen of Sarum Prime sees _anything_ of Harkon’s display, it will most likely be a highly edited clip, portraying him as a Blood Raider. Which would tend to have the effect of the common citizenry _demanding_ that Arrach Sarum _escalates_ the conflict. Which is the opposite effect to the one desired, is it not ? So, Harkon’s display only really reaches capsuleers. Now, capsuleers _do_ have a substantial following amongst baseliners, so you might argue that some people who follow capsuleer gossip might find the footage from the IGS, and publish it on Sarum Prime social media. But… that would tend to bring the MIO down in short order, so I kind of doubt that it’d happen. So, ultimately, Harkon’s thing is really rather self-defeating. It won’t result in any public pressure on Arrach Sarum, and all it really does is undermine U’K’s claim to moral high ground, if any such claim still exists at this point in time. (debatable) ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2090 "2020-02-13T19:03:06Z")
> [@Valerie\_Valate](#): > > Which is the opposite effect to the one desired, is it not ? No. If anything, it would bring about the desired effect even faster. Chief Harkon and Ushra’Khan bemoaned what they perceived to be the lack of action from the Republic Fleet. If Sarum escalates even further, then the Fleet will be more likely to take direct action. As for moral high ground, that is something Ushra’Khan has never claimed to hold. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 7:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2091 "2020-02-13T19:21:25Z")
So the plan is to kill a bunch of random Amarr civilians, in the hope that this will bait Arrach Sarum into deciding to escalate, and kill a bigger bunch of random Minmatar citizens, at which point this will bait the Republic Fleet into attacking Amarr planets directly ? So the “desired effect” is a whole bunch of dead civilians ? ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 8:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2092 "2020-02-13T20:04:47Z")
Tens of trillions if I’m interpreting correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 8:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2093 "2020-02-13T20:26:53Z")
No war is without casualties. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Roman\_Joringer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/red_roman_joringer/32/181976_2.png) [@Red\_Roman\_Joringer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Red_Roman_Joringer)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 8:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2094 "2020-02-13T20:35:59Z")
Well ■■■■, that was on point. ---
**Author:** ![Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/morgana_tsukiyo/32/385507_2.png) [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Morgana_Tsukiyo)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2095 "2020-02-13T20:36:36Z")
“I am come as Time, the ultimate waster of people, ready for the hour that ripens to their doom. The warriors, arrayed in hostile armies facing each other, shall not live, whether you strike or stay your hand.” ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2096 "2020-02-13T21:01:25Z")
> [@Cain\_Aloga](#): > > No war is without casualties. So your plan is to provoke a full-scale, no-holds-barred, war with the full destructive capabilities of the Imperial Navy and Republic Fleet unleashed against the planetary populations of the Empire and Republic ? A full-scale war that everyone seemingly knows the Republic would _lose_ ? And you considered this a _good idea_ ? ---
**Author:** ![Harkon\_Thorson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/harkon_thorson/32/320172_2.png) [@Harkon\_Thorson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Harkon_Thorson)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 9:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2097 "2020-02-13T21:23:06Z")
You still fail to give an alternative as the current state is their ultimate goal is to ensalve or kill all of us while ours is to be free. So currently its us (or me) accepting the possibility of a lot of civilians deaths while they are aiming for the loss of ALL ours. Lesser of two evils and all. So unless you have a solution to that problem stop preaching because its gone achieve even less then you claim our actions do. ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2098 "2020-02-13T21:25:15Z")
My plan? No. My plan is to help defeat Sarum forces on Floseswin and remove them from the system, and after words help protect the Republic from invasions. Should a full scale war break out however, you _will_ find me on the front-lines of it. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Roman\_Joringer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/red_roman_joringer/32/181976_2.png) [@Red\_Roman\_Joringer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Red_Roman_Joringer)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 9:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2099 "2020-02-13T21:34:02Z")
Yeah, hey, genius, you ever think that maybe the reason she’s telling you all this is that your Plan A isn’t any more of a ■■■■■■■ unworkable alternative than any of the ■■■■ you’re turning your nose up at? But no, you’re at the plan you want, not the plan you’ve got no choice over. So quit ■■■■■■■ pretending you’re anything more than junked out for the ■■■■■■■ murder. It’s not like the Republic you’re pretending you’re doing it for even gives a ■■■■. Even if you actually bought everything they’re selling, they’re saying the entire treaty left Sarum taking slaves on a ■■■■■■■ handshake. So they clearly know something you ■■■■■■■ don’t. Of course, that’s if you buy what they’re selling, and I don’t buy anybody’s ■■■■■■■■. The Republic was never going to leave that ■■■■ to a handshake. They ■■■■■■■ sold those people to Sarum because they’d rather you go out massacring civilians than ■■■■■■■ with their cash flow with your ■■■■■■■■ treaty. So how about we all go ahead and cut the ■■■■ about how the poor Republic has no ■■■■■■■ choice but to instigate the death of a few trillion of its own ■■■■■■■ people. They obviously think they’ve got enough to spare to legally clear this ■■■■■■■■ over petty profiteering nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Harkon\_Thorson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/harkon_thorson/32/320172_2.png) [@Harkon\_Thorson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Harkon_Thorson)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 9:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2100 "2020-02-13T21:44:51Z")
This again just shows that you are here to antagonize and to argue. You aren´t interested in anything but that. Its either that or you are to dumb to understand. But thats fine. You are a prime excample of the IGS at its finest. Keep ranting. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Roman\_Joringer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/red_roman_joringer/32/181976_2.png) [@Red\_Roman\_Joringer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Red_Roman_Joringer)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 9:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2101 "2020-02-13T21:51:29Z")
I’m looking… I’m looking… I’m looking… Yeah, no ■■■■■■■ answer. Of course that language was in there. The Republic 100% was never going to miss putting in big, bold, ■■■■■■■ letters “ **THERE WILL BE NO SLAVE TAKING IN THE WARZONE!** ” in the CEWMPA… or any treaty anywhere for anything. You’d have to be dumb as a box of ■■■■ to buy that ■■■■■■■ line about loopholes and omissions. So what’s to ■■■■■■■ argue about? You’re talking about killing a bunch of people that not just the Empire, but the Republic, already wrote off. And you can’t be ■■■■■■■ dumb enough to not know. ■■■■, the only reason you’re in this position to begin with was that you were trading ■■■■■■■ space with the Amarrians to begin with. So what, now we’re gonna be all indignant? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 9:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2102 "2020-02-13T21:53:36Z")
So, just out of curiosity, what’s _your_ solution? How do the Minmatar people accomplish the following: 1. Secure the release of those of our people who are still enslaved, and 2. Ensure that the Amarr Empire and its agents will never again pursue an agenda of cultural annihilation against us, either by belligerence or by subversion? > [@Red\_Roman\_Joringer](#): > > Of course that language was in there. The Republic 100% was never going to miss putting in big, bold, ■■■■■■■ letters “ **THERE WILL BE NO SLAVE TAKING IN THE WARZONE!** ” in the CEWMPA… or any treaty anywhere for anything. You’d have to be dumb as a box of ■■■■ to buy that ■■■■■■■ line about loopholes and omissions. Really? Great, then you must have the full text of the treaty in front of you, right? Can you _share_ it, please? ---
**Author:** ![Gergoran\_Moussou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gergoran_moussou/32/381607_2.png) [@Gergoran\_Moussou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gergoran_Moussou)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 9:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2103 "2020-02-13T21:59:18Z")
Well, a few people here have certainly demonstrated reasons not to feel bad for the situation which they force upon their people. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Roman\_Joringer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/red_roman_joringer/32/181976_2.png) [@Red\_Roman\_Joringer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Red_Roman_Joringer)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 10:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2104 "2020-02-13T22:19:38Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Really? Great, then you must have the full text of the treaty in front of you, right? Can you _share_ it, please? You think if it ■■■■■■■ absolved them of this ■■■■■■■■, they wouldn’t have already put it in your lap? It’s the only reason it ■■■■■■■ exists, genius, don’t be ■■■■■■■ dense. > [@Arrendis](#): > > - Secure the release of those of our people who are still enslaved, and > - Ensure that the Amarr Empire and its agents will never again pursue an agenda of cultural annihilation against us, either by belligerence or by subversion? What, honestly? 1. Keep arming the ■■■■■■■ slaves so they can free themselves, if you’ve got the money, or if not, don’t. 2. Accept that’s never going to ■■■■■■■ happen and move on with your eyes open. The Minmatar people don’t ■■■■■■■ accomplish either of those things. We’ll never ■■■■■■■ free the number of people blowing up as crew in the warzone, so we’re always a net negative. We’ll never outrun the enslaved birthrate. The Amarr aren’t ever going to change and neither is anyone else who’s going to want you to do what the ■■■■ they want. ■■■■, the Republic and Empire will ■■■■■■■ work together to make us all do ■■■■ when it’s ■■■■■■■ convenient. That was supposed to be the ■■■■■■■ draw of freedom, right? But ■■■■, you’re not clapped in iron, right? So obviously Amarrians aren’t some kind of ■■■■■■■ magnet for the ■■■■. I’ve worked with, worked against, killed, hung out with, and outright ignored Amarrians ever since I started running into them, and you know what the ■■■■■■ up thing was after all that? They’re no ■■■■■■■ worse than anyone who wanted to tell me how to ■■■■■■■ be. ■■■■, the Republic would chain my ass to a drainpipe tomorrow if they could. Not like that isn’t how Shakor’s dealing with subversives anyhow. So what do you want from me? My whole ■■■■■■■ existence doesn’t revolve around ■■■■■■■ Amarrians, and I might be the only ■■■■■■■ Matari in the cluster who knows _everybody_ is trying to stuff me in a ■■■■■■■ box. So, you know, maybe it’s just ■■■■■■■ honest, but if your premise is asking _me_ what the ■■■■ to do, your premise is flawed. I don’t ■■■■■■■ trust much, and none of those things are the Empire, the Republic, the 24IC, the TLF, Shakor, the Empress, any of the Heirs, any of the Tribes, any ■■■■■■■ clan, any ■■■■■■■ family, none of that. So the real answers to that is to ■■■■■■■ listen so you can catch the lies as they fly by, or you’re ending up in someone’s ice cube tray one way or the other. And hey, you know what? After all that, I’m also apparently the only Minmatar in this whole ■■■■■■■ discussion who seems to be able to choose not to associate with the TLF’s pet serial killers. In fact, one of the best things about my ■■■■■■■ life is I seem to get to have ■■■■■■■ choices and tell everyone else where to shove their ■■■■■■■■. It’s almost like I’m free or something. And I didn’t ■■■■■■■ get that from the Republic. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 10:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2105 "2020-02-13T22:39:31Z")
> [@Red\_Roman\_Joringer](#): > > You think if it ■■■■■■■ absolved them of this ■■■■■■■■, they wouldn’t have already put it in your lap? It’s the only reason it ■■■■■■■ exists, genius, don’t be ■■■■■■■ dense. I think you’re making absolute declarations about what provisions are in a treaty none of us can review the text of. You want to claim that you believe something, great. You want to say something is definitely true, back your ■■■■ up or shut the ■■■■ up. > [@Red\_Roman\_Joringer](#): > > The Minmatar people don’t ■■■■■■■ accomplish either of those things. We’ll never ■■■■■■■ free the number of people blowing up as crew in the warzone, so we’re always a net negative. We’ll never outrun the enslaved birthrate. The Amarr aren’t ever going to change and neither is anyone else who’s going to want you to do what the ■■■■ they want. ■■■■, the Republic and Empire will ■■■■■■■ work together to make us all do ■■■■ when it’s ■■■■■■■ convenient. That was supposed to be the ■■■■■■■ draw of freedom, right? No. The draw of freedom was supposed to be that the only people who have any right to decide who the Minmatar people are and will be are _us_. It has nothing to do with convenience. It has nothing to with working together. > [@Red\_Roman\_Joringer](#): > > I’ve worked with, worked against, killed, hung out with, and outright ignored Amarrians ever since I started running into them, and you know what the ■■■■■■ up thing was after all that? They’re no ■■■■■■■ worse than anyone who wanted to tell me how to ■■■■■■■ be. Never said they were. So hey, great job arguing against something nobody’s claiming. But yes, I’ve looked at your combat record, and I’ve seen that you’ve worked with, and hung out with Amarr. You know what I don’t see in this list of a whole 5 people you’ve killed? Amarr. Any of 'em. So you’re a liar, in addition to being an idiot. > [@Red\_Roman\_Joringer](#): > > So what do you want from me? Nothing. Because you have nothing to offer. You have nothing of value at all. You have only hot air and yelling at people for the crime of giving a ■■■■ about other people. > [@Red\_Roman\_Joringer](#): > > It’s almost like I’m free or something. It’s a lot more like you’ve locked yourself in a ■■■■■■■ box. The more I hear from you, the more I go back to my original thought: you are a sad, pitiful excuse for a human being, with absolutely nothing to say except to make sure everyone within the sound of your voice knows just how much you hate the life you’ve made for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 11:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2106 "2020-02-13T23:02:12Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > How do the Minmatar people accomplish the following: > > 1. Secure the release of those of our people who are still enslaved, and > 2. Ensure that the Amarr Empire and its agents will never again pursue an agenda of cultural annihilation against us, either by belligerence or by subversion? I think that 2. is possible, and achievable. I am far less confident that 1. is possible, though there _is_ a long shot that might work. Maybe. Depending on just how far Republic decision makers are willing to go. > [@Harkon\_Thorson](#): > > unless you have a solution to that problem Burn the stargates between Amarr and Minmatar space, making it a border that is impassable save by cynofields or sublight travel. That would be a start. Now, about securing the release of the enslaved. Have you ever heard the saying “He who can destroy a thing, controls that thing” ? The solution is a genetic weapon, keyed to Minmatar DNA. A virus say, that would in short order kill anyone of Minmatar ancestry, and _only_ those of Minmatar ancestry. The use of such a weapon on an Amarr world would kill all the Minmatar slaves, and leave the Amarr population with the problem of dealing with all the corpses before disease sets in. It would be a horrifying weapon, the use of which would cripple the Empire economy very rapidly. Demonstrate the use of such a weapon. Threaten to use it on all populated Amarr worlds. Faced with the total ruination of the Empire’s economy, the Empress would be quite a bit more… co-operative… than she currently is. You’re already willing to cause the deaths of large numbers of your own people, does the method used really matter ? ---
**Author:** ![Harkon\_Thorson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/harkon_thorson/32/320172_2.png) [@Harkon\_Thorson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Harkon_Thorson)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2020, 11:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2107 "2020-02-13T23:25:15Z")
to 1: I shot them and there is no destroying them with the means that we have. Even if there ways to destroy them there also are ways arroud them as we all know. So not a solution. to 2: If I had the means to build such a weapon why by all the Elders would I not aim for the Amarr? Pretty sure it would be more effective in making them do what I want then killing the ppl I want to liberate? Or am I missing a part here? Is there limitation to this hypothetical moral dilemma that prevents that? Also as it might be turned against our people I wouldn´t want such a weapon to exist anyway. So again no solutions and just more stupid discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 4:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2108 "2020-02-14T04:53:32Z")
> [@Red\_Roman\_Joringer](#): > > It’s almost like I’m free or something. And I didn’t ■■■■■■■ get that from the Republic. Well, it is not hard to see how you ended up an outcast. You go hang out with your Amarr by all means, while the rest of us care about more than our _own_ freedom. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718.md?page=104) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718.md?page=106)