# Off-Topic Thread vol. 2 **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [July 4, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718 "2019-07-04T14:24:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 123
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 5:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2449 "2020-03-07T05:20:05Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > If you had me in your territory, under your power, and I walked safely away without incident, I expect that would be for your own sake in one way or another, not for mine. Contrary to popular belief, I don’t in fact attempt to murder every Amarr affiliate I come to contact with. I’ve suggested before that you _ask_ people about these things. Not just _me_, but also others. You should make your own judgments, but they should be based on _information_, not imagination. But you won’t. Instead of asking and looking for answers, you keep on talking and preaching and explaining _your_ views and dismissing anything thant goes contrary to them, and call that “exploration” and “taking it lighlty”. EDIT: Let me rephrase my offer. Come back to me when you have given me some reason to believe you _actually_ want to understand, not just find out things you can then use to support _your_ story. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 6:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2450 "2020-03-07T06:07:32Z")
Heh. That was kind of my point-- that I’d walk out of there just fine, but it wouldn’t be for my own sake. I haven’t forgotten events at the music festival. But whatever, Else. I’m not so eager to cater to you. My interest in dialog is an invitation, not an offer of concessions aside from a willingness to hear. It’s definitely not an invitation to cut at me, then call me self-centered and closed-minded when I defend myself. Block me, so you’ll never have to hear my voice again. I’m tired, and going to bed. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 8:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2452 "2020-03-07T08:08:56Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > I haven’t forgotten events at the music festival. For the record, I have no idea what you mean by this. > [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > My interest in dialog is an invitation You have 1. not invited me to anything, 2. not shown any interest in dialogue. Ranting at the IGS about what you think I am like, telling Arrendis you have no intent to change that opinion no matter what, and never directing as much as a question or token implication that you are interested in listening to me directly is not _interest in dialogue_. If anything, it is the opposite. Just because you have told yourself you are a seeker of information and dialogue does not make you so. Actions speak louder than words. > [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > Block me, so you’ll never have to hear my voice again. I’ve not come to you to beg for dialogue or a chance to explain myself either. _You_ keep on starting these “let me explain Elsebeth to the general public” things - not me. I react, and _part_ of that reaction is pointing out that your claims about “dialogue” and “exploration” and actually understanding me based on some superior information are false. There are many people on your side of the war who _have_ actually spoken to me in a spirit of seeking for knowledge of me - _you_ are not one of them. What you have done when talking about me, by your _own admission_ in this thread, is _seeking to hurt me_. Gods be damned, even Lord Consort Aldrith Shutaq Newelle does a better job at seeking dialogue with me than you do. So get off your ■■■■■■■ high horse and stop trying to act like you are some kind of peaceful agent who just wanted to have a nice chat, and me the one who is rejecting sincere dialogue and needs to be catered to. If you want it to stop, _just stop it_. Show me, _for once_, the knowledge-seeker you claim to be. Or block me yourself, so you don’t have to see me interject inconvenient replies to your smacktalk. ---
**Author:** ![Sah\_Phyre](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sah_phyre/32/378085_2.png) [@Sah\_Phyre](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sah_Phyre)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 11:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2453 "2020-03-07T11:22:37Z")
There are few things more disheartening than to see a conversation go in circles over and over again to the point of frustration and hostility, even if the participants enter it with earnest intentions to find some sort of compromise and do better than the last time. For what it’s worth, I don’t think either of you is being disingenuous about what you mean and what you want from this interaction. I find that few people in a sound state of mind and at least somewhat healthy conscience knowingly _lie_ - they might put a spin on it, they might not tell the whole truth, they might dress it up to present it in a better light, but if they want to get their point across, they will not tell an outright falsehood. But no matter how the argument is presented, the other party will always view it through the lens of their own perception. You can’t alter that perception. Personal bias is inherently hard to suppress, let alone overcome. I’d go as far as to say that people who say they’re neutral and unbiased are full of s… somewhat overconfident assumptions about their own impartiality. Obviously, I’m pretty biased and have a vested interest in this - I don’t like the way this argument is going, what it’s doing to people I like and the prospects of this war ever ending (however small its impact on said war might be), so feel free to ignore me. But in the end, what I’m saying is, you have a strong incompatibility of opinion. Perhaps it would be better just to leave each other alone? Not burning bridges or anything, just stop interacting, stop provoking each other and focus on something else, at least for a while. Even if the other party doesn’t respect this ceasefire - well, as some recent examples in neighboring threads demonstrate, one digging a hole for another will inevitably end up falling into it herself. You hardly need to bother. ---
**Author:** ![Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/morgana_tsukiyo/32/385507_2.png) [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Morgana_Tsukiyo)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2454 "2020-03-07T12:36:53Z")
Where would the drama for _La société du spectacle_ be if they did leave each other alone? ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 12:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2455 "2020-03-07T12:54:22Z")
> [@Sah\_Phyre](#): > > even if the participants enter it with earnest intentions to find some sort of compromise They didn’t. _By her own admission_, Aria’s reasons were to be hurtful to me, in revenge for something _someone else_ did to her. Nice try though. ---
**Author:** ![Sah\_Phyre](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sah_phyre/32/378085_2.png) [@Sah\_Phyre](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sah_Phyre)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 1:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2456 "2020-03-07T13:40:32Z")
We’re not quite on the same page here. I’m talking about the conversation taking place right _now_, not what, per that same admission, happened way back during Thebeka. I’m not making excuses for that one - guilt-by-association attacks are the same thing we complain about when someone tries to tar the entire Empire with the same militant Sarum/Khanid-flavored brush. Yet again, that was Thebeka. You two have been offering (admittedly back-handed) advice to each other and trying to (admittedly half-heartedly) find common ground as late as of just a day ago. Unsuccessfully, of course, but the attempt was there. There must be some perception that it might be worth it to pursue some form of understanding, which doesn’t really spell out “malice” to me. It might simply be the wrong time to try to achieve that. It might never be the right time, but it’s not worth losing sleep over, either. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 2:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2457 "2020-03-07T14:19:49Z")
> [@Sah\_Phyre](#): > > There must be some perception that it might be worth it to pursue some form of understanding, which doesn’t really spell out “malice” to me. I am afraid I find it really hard to read “some perception that it might be worth it to pursue some form of understanding” to it when - we’ve already been through one yelling match about her habit of Explaining™ me - she’s acknowledged she did it to _intentionally_ hurt me and backed off - she starts doing it again - she then states she has no intent to change her opinion of me no matter what, nor has interest to talk to _me_ directly - she never directs questions or other attempts to confirm or clarify to me, but instead _continues_ to Explain™ - she then _reiterates_ her motive was to hurt me. It _does_ spell malice, to me, I’m afraid. I don’t know what would need to happen to make it spell something else, but just smiling sweetly and claiming she’s been “inviting me to dialogue” all along does not seem to work. I’d be fine, of course, with her just _stopping_. I’m not the one pretending I’m the paragon of neutrality and mere a seeker of dialogue, here. ---
**Author:** ![Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/morgana_tsukiyo/32/385507_2.png) [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Morgana_Tsukiyo)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 2:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2458 "2020-03-07T14:22:42Z")
#Ariasplaining ---
**Author:** ![Sah\_Phyre](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sah_phyre/32/378085_2.png) [@Sah\_Phyre](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sah_Phyre)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2459 "2020-03-07T14:41:01Z")
That first round of Explain™ _might_ have been an attempt to understand, as unfortunate as it turned out. But I’m veering into Explaining™ Aria now, which would be A) rude B) presumptuous C) highly hypocritical. Obviously, I’d rather not do that. I’m trying to defuse an argument here (or at least I hope I am - I admit I don’t have a stellar record of “not making things worse”), not start a new one. > [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > I’m fine, of course, with her just _stopping_ . That’s good enough, really. I’ll be happy if I can help reach such a compromise - if only to see Ms. Tsukiyo there pout at being deprived of entertainment. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2460 "2020-03-07T14:41:38Z")
> [@Sah\_Phyre](#): > > That first round of Explain™ _might_ have been an attempt to understand, as unfortunate as it turned out. She has herself declared it was not. ---
**Author:** ![Sah\_Phyre](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sah_phyre/32/378085_2.png) [@Sah\_Phyre](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sah_Phyre)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 2:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2461 "2020-03-07T14:45:51Z")
Well, chalk that one up to talking out of my ass then. ---
**Author:** ![Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/morgana_tsukiyo/32/385507_2.png) [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Morgana_Tsukiyo)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 2:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2462 "2020-03-07T14:46:46Z")
> [@Sah\_Phyre](#): > > if only to see Ms. Tsukiyo there pout at being deprived of entertainment. I am quite proficient at _entertaining myself_ when this happens. 😘 ---
**Author:** ![Sah\_Phyre](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sah_phyre/32/378085_2.png) [@Sah\_Phyre](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sah_Phyre)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 2:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2463 "2020-03-07T14:49:10Z")
I thought you of all people would know the thrill of denying someone something. ---
**Author:** ![Alexandre\_Arthie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alexandre_arthie/32/379447_2.png) [@Alexandre\_Arthie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alexandre_Arthie)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 2:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2464 "2020-03-07T14:55:07Z")
My hope is that this thread is not dominated by any one topic or issue. Especially if it becomes repetitive. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 2:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2465 "2020-03-07T14:57:59Z")
As you wish. People wishing to continue smacktalking me and/or efforts to reconciliate can by all means contact me privately. ---
**Author:** ![Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/morgana_tsukiyo/32/385507_2.png) [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Morgana_Tsukiyo)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 3:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2466 "2020-03-07T15:04:16Z")
> [@Sah\_Phyre](#): > > I thought you of all people would know the thrill of denying someone something. I _usually_ do it in a consensual way, within specific scenarios and all that. SSC, RACK and PRICK i consider good references depending on the context/mood/participant(s). ---
**Author:** ![Sah\_Phyre](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sah_phyre/32/378085_2.png) [@Sah\_Phyre](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sah_Phyre)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2467 "2020-03-07T15:07:04Z")
> [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](#): > > I _usually_ do it in a consensual way > [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](#): > > usually Thank God for small favors, I guess? ---
**Author:** ![Arsia\_Elkin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arsia_elkin/32/388703_2.png) [@Arsia\_Elkin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arsia_Elkin)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2468 "2020-03-07T15:08:59Z")
So, in the interest of off topicness… How would one hypothetically get into Mind Clash? Assume that this person knows nothing more than the basics of what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 3:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/2469 "2020-03-07T15:17:58Z")
> [@Sah\_Phyre](#): > > But I’m veering into Explaining™ Aria now, which would be A) rude B) presumptuous C) highly hypocritical. Nope. It’s fine. Please go right ahead, ma’am. Analyzing people to their face or in public might be a little rude, but I’ve done enough of it that I’m in no position to complain. Besides, I’m a little curious what you might have to say. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718.md?page=122) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718.md?page=124)