# Off-Topic Thread vol. 2 **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [July 4, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718 "2019-07-04T14:24:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 236
**Author:** ![Branka\_Adovic](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/branka_adovic/32/369238_2.png) [@Branka\_Adovic](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Branka_Adovic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 5:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/4750 "2022-01-25T17:06:03Z")
One might notice there are similiarities between traditional martial arts and gymnastics of Achura and Jin-Mei. A guy I know from the gym once remarked quite precisely as of how they’re different in callisthenics and the same idea runs through their entire philosophy. The general idea of Jin-Mei movements is “Live healthy for as long as possible”. And Achuran movements are all about “Die honorably as soon as possible” ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 5:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/4751 "2022-01-25T17:21:49Z")
> [@Valerie\_Valate](#): > > You are almost as grumpy a sourpuss as Arrendis is. > > Do they grow on trees in Mikramurka or what ? For the record, my Clan hasn’t lived there for a long, long time. I was born in space, just like my parents, grandparents, great-grandparents… > [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > Grumpy? I think you fail to understand. We take pleasure and find joy in our ways. That this tends to be at the expense of trite dullards is merely a delightful side-effect. My only complaint about this post is that I can only give it one like. > [@Branka\_Adovic](#): > > One might notice there are similiarities between traditional martial arts and gymnastics of Achura and Jin-Mei. One might notice that there are similarities between _most_ whole-body physical disciplines that emphasize flexibility, coordination, and precision. It’s almost like the biomechanics of the human body remain consistent from one planet and pursuit to the next. ---
**Author:** ![Branka\_Adovic](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/branka_adovic/32/369238_2.png) [@Branka\_Adovic](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Branka_Adovic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/4752 "2022-01-25T17:34:48Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > One might notice that there are similarities between _most_ whole-body physical disciplines that emphasize flexibility, coordination, and precision. It’s almost like the biomechanics of the human body remain consistent from one planet and pursuit to the next. Not all of them are that much intertwined with philosophy and spirituality thou. Some people just do pushups, punch bags and count callories ( that’s a figure of speach, for the record). Others make a whole worldview out of it, almost a religion. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 6:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/4753 "2022-01-25T18:24:57Z")
Most of the full-body ones tend to be, even if it’s not so… _overt_. The ‘pushups, punch bags, and count calories’ thing… that’s generally not any kind of whole-body approach, and definitely doesn’t really focus on flexibility or precision. Boxers and the like… there’ve been a fair few who ladle on the upper-body muscle while neglecting leg development (which is dumb, since power comes from the hips, but they do it!). Even the disciplines that appear to distance themselves from overt philosophy and spirituality, though… you’ll find that to excel at that kind of training regimen and discipline really requires _making_ it a lifestyle approach. It becomes an integral part of what you do, how you approach the world… and once that happens, is there really any difference between that, and philosophy? Philosophy as a purely intellectual exercise, after all, is empty, hollow—for a philosophy to really _live_, its adherents have to _live by it_. ---
**Author:** ![Synthetic\_Cultist](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/synthetic_cultist/32/388342_2.png) [@Synthetic\_Cultist](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Synthetic_Cultist)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 6:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/4754 "2022-01-25T18:26:06Z")
> [@Branka\_Adovic](#): > > The general idea of Jin-Mei movements is “Live healthy for as long as possible”. I have Only heard of the Jin-Mei Martial Art of Dimac, which I Understand to mean “The Hand Of Death”. This does not Quite seem to Fit with the Idea of Living Healthy ? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 6:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/4755 "2022-01-25T18:27:00Z")
When someone’s trying to kill you, killing them first _is_ kind of integral to healthy living. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 6:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/4756 "2022-01-25T18:59:37Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > Nah, it’s their job to _live_ doing that. Death of either of us is a failure of both. You left out the “if necessary,” Elsebeth. Obviously you don’t want your bodyguards throwing their lives away, but it _is_ a bodyguard’s role to step between the client and a blaster or an angry mob if it comes to that. It’s a role I often perform for Directrix Phonaga, especially if the two of us are traveling alone, and yes, I would consider it my duty to die for her-- _if need be._ Dying unnecessarily would naturally make it tricky to continue performing my duties, after. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 7:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/4757 "2022-01-25T19:03:34Z")
It’s the security’s job to see it does _not_ come to that. Sure, if they _fail_ at it, it’s honorable for them to be who dies, or in any case dies _first_, but that does not make it their job to die. It might seem like I’m splitting hairs, but at least a long-term, multi-generational arrangement of principal and security the distinction _matters_. EDITs: ■■■■ translators. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 7:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/4758 "2022-01-25T19:04:07Z")
And all I wanted to do, was have a little fun wrasslin match. Not even to win, just for the slippery fun of safety mud. But somehow it turned into bacon wrapped Minmatars. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/4759 "2022-01-25T19:12:05Z")
I trust if that is your expectation that you also never ignore your security team’s advice by, for example, prioritizing symbolism over safety or blowing off a potential threat. A bodyguard’s job is what it says on the tin, Elsebeth: to safeguard the client. THAT is the job. It’s a grim truism of the business that nobody is truly safe. Someone getting a shot is obviously undesirable, but that doesn’t at all mean the bodyguard has failed. Rather, it’s the last chance to succeed. If you regard even a close call as a failure by definition then I am glad I’m not the poor soul responsible for your security. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 7:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/4760 "2022-01-25T19:15:22Z")
I don’t always take every piece of advice, of course, but if I choose not to, and Sarinde cannot convince me to, and they die as a consequence, both them and me _have failed_, not done our respective jobs. Close calls don’t count, though. 😉 And it is not always shameful to fail. ---
**Author:** ![Ange\_des\_Larmes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ange_des_larmes/32/304752_2.png) [@Ange\_des\_Larmes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ange_des_Larmes)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 7:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/4761 "2022-01-25T19:55:43Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > But somehow it turned into bacon wrapped Minmatars. I am adding _“Bacon-wrapped Minmatars”_ to the S tier of my list of _Ways to End a Conversation on the IGS_. For context, _“Why don’t you just mud wrestle?”_ is an A tier and _Amarians Call Each Other Heretics_ is C tier. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 7:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/4762 "2022-01-25T19:58:53Z")
That seems like a cultural difference, then, Elsebeth. For me, if I need to take a fatal blow in the directrix’s place, if the only way I can protect her is as ablative meat armor, then the last thing I need to feel in that moment is that I have failed her already (distracting), or that she has failed me (distracting and irrelevant). Failure is when harm comes to those I must protect. If I must surrender my life to avoid that failure, I must. But I don’t fail by so-doing. (Of course, also, another “me” will normally wake up pretty quick, but of course I can never be completely sure of that and also the “me” that’s making the decisions in the moment really does die.) If I did fail, I’d be taking responsibility for failure with my life, anyway, so. Yeah. (It’s my own culture, not the directrix’s, that demands this, but that’s the point exactly. Our traditions have a particular way of encouraging dedication.) Better to die unashamed. ---
**Author:** ![Branka\_Adovic](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/branka_adovic/32/369238_2.png) [@Branka\_Adovic](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Branka_Adovic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 8:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/4763 "2022-01-25T20:00:36Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Most of the full-body ones tend to be, even if it’s not so… _overt_. The ‘pushups, punch bags, and count calories’ thing… that’s generally not any kind of whole-body approach, and definitely doesn’t really focus on flexibility or precision. Okay, I see “Figure of speach” note wasn’t quite clear to you, I’ll clarify. By ‘pushups’ I meant body conditioning as a whole - full-body warmup before training, daily routine and so on. By ‘punching bags’, including breathing meatbags, I meant movement practice, if you think it doesn’t involve coordination or precision - your coach is likely not watching you. By ‘counting callories’ I meant planning nutrition in accordance to training routine. All of the above combines into what is usually meant by ‘whole-body approach’. But from a materialistic perspective, usually employed by pragmatic result-driven inhabitants of modern urbanistic cultures. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Boxers and the like… there’ve been a fair few who ladle on the upper-body muscle while neglecting leg development (which is dumb, since power comes from the hips, but they do it!). Is it amateur boxers we’re talking about? Any competent boxing coach starts from footwork. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Even the disciplines that appear to distance themselves from overt philosophy and spirituality, though… you’ll find that to excel at that kind of training regimen and discipline really requires _making_ it a lifestyle approach. It becomes an integral part of what you do, how you approach the world… and once that happens, is there really any difference between that, and philosophy? Philosophy as a purely intellectual exercise, after all, is empty, hollow—for a philosophy to really _live_, its adherents have to _live by it_. What requires you to make it a lifestyle approach is fact that your results get rapidly undone if you stop training or neglect your routine To combat that, the intentionally exxagerated materialistic approach I described two paragraphs above relies on galnet motivation quotes, your coach messaging you ‘dude, it’s been a whole week, wtf?’ and your own conclusions after finding yourself in situations like ‘where dafuq did my abs go?’ and ‘why am I moving like a snail again?’. In contrast, traditional schools I was mentioning earlier rely on embedding spiritual practices in the training routine, sacralizing the ‘mentor - student’ relationship in order to ensure discipline and proper succession of the teachings and actually developing a certain worldview - which the practitioner is expected to employ in other, not so obviously relevant, parts of their daily life. In this sense, some traditions bear similarities between them and sometimes get confused or intentionally mixed when depicted in foreign media or superficially practiced by foreign students. Pretty sure you got what I meant from the start, but you just had to have me write a wall of text, didn’t ya?) ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 8:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/4764 "2022-01-25T20:02:02Z")
> [@Ange\_des\_Larmes](#): > > _Amarians Call Each Other Heretics_ is C tier. This seems more like a way to start a conversation than end one though? ---
**Author:** ![Ange\_des\_Larmes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ange_des_larmes/32/304752_2.png) [@Ange\_des\_Larmes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ange_des_Larmes)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 8:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/4765 "2022-01-25T20:05:34Z")
Yes, but they usually kill any other conversations by going on massive, long, rambling tangents about how their God told them that the other Amarrians they don’t agree with are stinky. That’s why it’s only a C tier. Killing a conversation by having a longer, varbose, proselytising speech-off is a bit dull in my opinion. I’d rather watch Doctor Spice. ---
**Author:** ![Branka\_Adovic](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/branka_adovic/32/369238_2.png) [@Branka\_Adovic](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Branka_Adovic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/4766 "2022-01-25T20:14:24Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > Better to die unashamed. See, that’s why I mentioned it in the first place, @Arrendis. To remind Else of this Achuran thing - they’ve got a bit of a death worship as keynote in their teachings. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/4767 "2022-01-25T20:14:37Z")
Hm. I guess I usually find that kind of thing usefully clarifying-- at least if you have a clear sense on who you should listen to for what and why. (Like: “Imperial Rite follower in good standing” is a good starting spot for somebody you can assume isn’t sort of joining in holographically from the theological hinterlands.) ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 8:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/4768 "2022-01-25T20:27:34Z")
> [@Branka\_Adovic](#): > > See, that’s why I mentioned it the first place, @Arrendis. To remind Else of this Achuran thing - they’ve got a bit of a death worship as keynote in their teachings. Haha-- ah. Well, if you say it like that it doesn’t sound positive, does it? I do tend to weigh my life lightly (I don’t think of myself as having a separate existence to begin with, really-- I’m kind of like a dream the universe is having), but I love being alive. But, there are things more important than our lives. Failing in one of these (and it can be in a general way over time as well as a specific, important failing) is usually expected to result in the individual’s death. It’s a quality we share with the Civire and Deteis. They favor tea, usually. We have our own methods. ---
**Author:** ![Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/morgana_tsukiyo/32/385507_2.png) [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Morgana_Tsukiyo)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 8:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/4769 "2022-01-25T20:54:45Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > It becomes an integral part of what you do, how you approach the world… and once that happens, is there really any difference between that, and philosophy? Philosophy as a purely intellectual exercise, after all, is empty, hollow—for a philosophy to really _live_, its adherents have to _live by it_. When one talk the talk and walk the walk, some name it a _path_ rather than an idea or philosophy, an integration of idea and practice. Some martial arts emphasize _becoming one with your weapon_ (fists or other) [some seculars may interpret this as muscle memory, the zone, or something similar], and as there are many doors to enlightenment, in general terms it is one way of practicing/experiencing/becoming/realizing no-self/emptiness, something other may achieve by _Kutuoto Miru_. In short, one with the weapon, one with the path, one with whatever is a way to achieve what the philosophies point towards. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718.md?page=235) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718.md?page=237)