# Off-Topic Thread vol. 2 **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [July 4, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718 "2019-07-04T14:24:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 272
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 11:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/5503 "2022-09-15T11:55:27Z")
The claim that ‘not a single [person who violated the CN rules] was _not_ shooting the Navy to do it’. ---
**Author:** ![Kitaula\_Kuusa\_Jouhinen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kitaula_kuusa_jouhinen/32/498716_2.png) [@Kitaula\_Kuusa\_Jouhinen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kitaula_Kuusa_Jouhinen)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 12:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/5504 "2022-09-15T12:22:34Z")
Fair enough. But a lot who showed up did. ---
**Author:** ![Miran\_Tereven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/miran_tereven/32/383453_2.png) [@Miran\_Tereven](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Miran_Tereven)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 2:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/5505 "2022-09-15T14:06:55Z")
> [@Henrik\_Suzaku](#): > > This was my first direct contact with ARC, and it engraved in my mind the impression of your gang as vicious, flippant tabloid reporters. It will take much to change that. Reporters generally don’t get navy personnel killed. They did. That went into the notebook of grievances. > [@Kitaula\_Kuusa\_Jouhinen](#): > > we’ve all done morally dark things Is that so? > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > The ARC is an organization that was started in the first place by a disgraced person who was spreading open lies and defamations about State personnel. Source? > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > Well, when they slander, it means they are aggressive and hostile to such degree to act in illegally criminal ways to show their hostility. Which, I hope you agree, is a bit more severe than simply declaring themselves as enemies. Becase when they show their hostility by committing a criminal offense (like libels or slander), they become not just enemies, but also criminals. You also accuse me of slander because I speak ill of Provists and Dragonaurs, though. > [@Makoto\_Priano](#): > > Kim, by all appearances, you remain the same cardboard cut-out of a militia pilot you were eight years ago. What gives you the impression that she is representative of the average militia pilot? And this is a statement that works both ways. Both positive and negative. Firstly, the average militia pilot is not anywhere close to being as efficient as Kim-haani is. Secondly, the average militia pilot does not come with the same political baggage, or if they do, they take care not to voice it openly. > [@Makoto\_Priano](#): > > Lastly, ‘disrespecting an officer in uniform’ or some such. The State Protectorate is not a part of the Caldari Navy’s command chain. In order to write someone up for disrespecting an officer on duty, I would first have to re-enlist in the Caldari Navy, then one of my subordinates would have to show disrespect. More importantly, every second someone wastes on trying to force foreigners to be respectful, despite having no recourse to do so, and foreigners often not understanding the concept of respect, is one second that is not being spent undocked and focused. > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > you’re literally supporting a pilot who OPENLY stated her allegiance to GURISTA PIRATES I do have to agree that I would not shed a tear if every Gurista got purged from the Militia tomorrow. > [@Makoto\_Priano](#): > > anyone who desires to commit genocide is an enemy of humanity. Let’s not blow things out of proportion. I desire to do unto the Triglavians as they have done unto my people, and I haven’t become an enemy of humanity yet. > [@Evi\_Polevhia](#): > > We can agree on one thing. ARC had no right to that data. But when has that ever stopped Capsuleers before? Evidently it did not stop them, and that is why they are now on the ■■■■ list of every Caldari citizen who knows how to read. > [@Evi\_Polevhia](#): > > And if it’s baseliner lives you’re worried about, I question anyone that pledges to the cause of a Militia. There is no more bloody and constant and _pointless_ a conflict in the whole cluster. John may speak about the State’s interests and I believe him, because I consider him to be a man of business first and ego second. But the Caldari Militia was the tool of a madman forged for a failed quest. Let it go. I would be entirely happy if the Militia Wars ended in a white peace tomorrow. Until it does, I will keep fighting because I will not have my nation end up with the short end of the stick when the peace negotiations start. Nor will I waste time on remorse after having heard the stories of rescued prisoners of war. > [@Evi\_Polevhia](#): > > Please don’t tell me you’re one who cares about such things as bloodlines. I’ve had my fill of that from cretins like Kim and Nauplius to last this any however many other life times I may endure. My genetic history does not control me, does not own me. There are many more other important things in this life than the breeding choices of my great great great great grand what evers. I think you will find that all Caldari care about their ancestors (to whom they are indeed connected by lines of blood, if you want to use that choice of words) irrespective of other people’s views. If you do not then you clearly don’t belong in that category. > [@Evi\_Polevhia](#): > > I died above Home in Heth’s War. My entire tenure in the Militia has effectively been damage control, necessitated by a war Heth started to avenge Gariushi, who advocated peace when he was alive. The CAF should never have gone there on the whims of a usurper. > [@Arrendis](#): > > but those bombs didn’t consent! And that does not spark joy. > [@Arrendis](#): > > The claim that ‘not a single [person who violated the CN rules] was _not_ shooting the Navy to do it’. Don’t you think that is a little semantic? ---
**Author:** ![Lasairiona\_Raske](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lasairiona_raske/32/467893_2.png) [@Lasairiona\_Raske](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lasairiona_Raske)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 3:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/5506 "2022-09-15T15:05:05Z")
I really had hoped to stay out of this utter headache. Miss Priano put out the call for data and the corresponding payments. I would like to point out that she is no longer in charge of ARC or even a member of the corporation IKAME. ARC agreed to back this as a matter of scientific curiosity and to assist in any analysis. We did not condone the killing of militia members. In fact, it was reported to us that the majority of the data _turned over to us_ was from salvage. I’m happy to discuss this operation with anyone who chooses to approach me respectfully on the topic. Until then, we will not be responding publicly on this particular thread any further. I anticipate this will have little sway, and people will continue to shout into the void, but at least I can say, I tried. Lasairiona Raske CEO and Head Diplomat of ARC ---
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/5507 "2022-09-15T15:08:00Z")
> [@Lasairiona\_Raske](#): > > In fact, it was reported to us that the majority of the data _turned over to us_ was from salvage. I have been deployed and living in Athounon since the State took the system in early May. I saw the butchers under your employ and their work personally. Your reports are false. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 4:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/5508 "2022-09-15T16:44:28Z")
> [@Miran\_Tereven](#): > > Don’t you think that is a little semantic? Everything we say is a little semantic. But if someone’s going to be getting pissy about the way capsuleers responded to an offer of payment that didn’t call for violence, and insist on claiming that _everyone_ who responded did so _with_ violence… well, maybe they should be ready to have that assertion challenged when it it’s wrong, hm? > [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > I have been deployed and living in Athounon since the State took the system in early May. > > I saw the butchers under your employ and their work personally. Well, you weren’t there when I was hanging around the system. So it stands to reason you weren’t there during similar windows when other capsuleers were, either. Also, you’d think a Caldari would be able to tell the difference between _employees_, and _vendors_. ARC clearly offered payment for specific product supplied, not payment for specific services rendered. ---
**Author:** ![Henrik\_Suzaku](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/henrik_suzaku/32/358060_2.png) [@Henrik\_Suzaku](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Henrik_Suzaku)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 5:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/5509 "2022-09-15T17:06:35Z")
If you were lied to by Priano about the origins of your data, then that excuses much - but your organization would have utterly failed in even the most basic, cursory due diligence. Further: is Makoto Priano currently a member of your organization? Have their been any consequences at all for her reckless and lawless behavior? An executive is responsible for the actions of their subordinates. Be a leader. Take responsibility and direct policy instead of deflecting blame. Then there will be grounds for us to take tea and talk. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/5510 "2022-09-15T21:27:05Z")
Are you all in all seriousness still pearl-clutching and fanning yourselves hysterically over some dead CalNav, when I can go through publicly available feeds and find small oceans of blood to attribute to every last one of you hypocrites? It’s funny how these lives are suddenly valued and sacrosanct when it suits the narrative, but when it doesn’t, they all are fit to ruin. You’re even trying to rob the violent of their agency, attributing their actions to the ones offering pay for salvage. Will you go to Jita, decrying the monsters setting up buy orders for tags, perhaps? Or other things, pillaged from CalNav scattered across the warzone? No? Doesn’t really impact the narrative? The saddest part is that there’s plenty to actually hold ARC accountable for over the years, but you’re collectively making yourselves look like petty propagandists by choosing this dumbfuck hill to stand on instead. When your narrative requires stretching this far, you should probably approach it from a different angle because this is just sad. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 9:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/5511 "2022-09-15T21:41:54Z")
> [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > Or other things, pillaged from CalNav scattered across the warzone? I’m sure plenty of meta launchers on CalMil ships made money for Gallente capsuleers shooting CN vessels outside of the warzone, too. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Henrik\_Suzaku](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/henrik_suzaku/32/358060_2.png) [@Henrik\_Suzaku](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Henrik_Suzaku)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 9:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/5512 "2022-09-15T21:42:07Z")
It is interesting how “collective” the “pearl-clutching” over “some dead CalNav” is, is it not? Every single loyalist Caldari capsuleer - of diverse and distinct backgrounds, many of whom despise each other and seldom agree on anything - can all unequivocally condemn ARC for their ludicrous and violent publicity stunt. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 9:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/5513 "2022-09-15T21:43:03Z")
> [@Henrik\_Suzaku](#): > > Every single loyalist Caldari capsuleer As _you_ define them, right? Because any who don’t, obviously, aren’t loyal _enough_? ---
**Author:** ![Kitaula\_Kuusa\_Jouhinen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kitaula_kuusa_jouhinen/32/498716_2.png) [@Kitaula\_Kuusa\_Jouhinen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kitaula_Kuusa_Jouhinen)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 11:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/5514 "2022-09-15T23:50:02Z")
I just think it’s funny that ARC hold themselves as entirely innocent in this affair. If I walk into a room with a bunch of slavering, bloodthirsty mercenaries, and I slap a wad of cash on the table and say into the air “Oh, won’t _someone_ rid me of this pesky FIO agent” according to ARC, I’m not actually responsible if something bad happens to said agent. ---
**Author:** ![Miran\_Tereven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/miran_tereven/32/383453_2.png) [@Miran\_Tereven](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Miran_Tereven)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 4:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/5515 "2022-09-16T04:32:36Z")
> [@Lasairiona\_Raske](#): > > In fact, it was reported to us that the majority of the data _turned over to us_ was from salvage. And that salvage came from wrecks that were Caldari Navy ships previously. Most of which became wrecks due to the same Capsuleers who looted said salvage. Most of us who were stationed there saw this go down, either on grid or via DSCAN. The “I didn’t know” excuse will get you nowhere. > [@Lasairiona\_Raske](#): > > We did not condone the killing of militia members. No one here has accused your group of attacking Caldari Militia Capsuleers. We have brought up the fact that your group put bounties on Caldari Navy ships operating in the Athounon system. Note that I am referring to that as a fact, and not as an accusation. This is because everyone stationed in Serthoulde saw it play out. Please do attack Caldari Militia Capsuleers instead of Caldari Navy ships, as things are easier when your targets come towards you instead of picking off Navy ships and running off to a safe to cloak. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Everything we say is a little semantic. I guess. > [@Arrendis](#): > > But if someone’s going to be getting pissy about the way capsuleers responded to an offer of payment that didn’t call for violence, and insist on claiming that _everyone_ who responded did so _with_ violence… well, maybe they should be ready to have that assertion challenged when it it’s wrong, hm? What? > [@Arrendis](#): > > Also, you’d think a Caldari would be able to tell the difference between _employees_, and _vendors_. ARC clearly offered payment for specific product supplied, not payment for specific services rendered. What matters is that people from my nation died because a group of independents offered cash rewards for things only found on their ships. > [@Henrik\_Suzaku](#): > > If you were lied to by Priano about the origins of your data, then that excuses much No it does not. > [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > Are you all in all seriousness still pearl-clutching and fanning yourselves hysterically over some dead CalNav, when I can go through publicly available feeds and find small oceans of blood to attribute to every last one of you hypocrites? It’s funny how these lives are suddenly valued and sacrosanct when it suits the narrative, but when it doesn’t, they all are fit to ruin. Of course I value them. Protecting my people was the reason why I started fighting in the first place, and a good amount of Triglavian blood was spilled in the process. Why should these enemies receive a different treatment? > [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > The saddest part is that there’s plenty to actually hold ARC accountable for over the years, but you’re collectively making yourselves look like petty propagandists by choosing this dumbfuck hill to stand on instead. Not at all. People caused my people to get shot. It became public knowledge. Now they will be viewed as the enemies they are. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 5:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/5516 "2022-09-16T05:07:57Z")
> [@Miran\_Tereven](#): > > What? I don’t see what’s unclear there, but I’ll break it down. 1. CalNav and GalNav forces were actively blowing one another up. 2. The data could be retrieved from Caldari Navy wrecks _not_ created via capsuleer violence. 3. ARC’s offer did not call for violence, only the retrieval of data. 4. Henrik made the claim that ‘not a single one [of the pilots violating Navy ordinances] was _not_ shooting the Navy to do it’. ie: that every pilot responding to ARC’s bounty chose violence. 5. I have already described how at least one person there (me) was violating those ordinances and not shooting Navy vessels to do it. The odds of me being the _only_ capsuleer to engage in any given behavior are infinitesimal. So it’s probably safe to extrapolate that others engaged in the same behavior. Which means we can infer that others likely chose _not_ to shoot at the Navy, as well. So, if he’s going to get pissy about the way capsuleers responded to ARC’s offer—an offer that neither called for, nor required violence—and insist on claiming that _everyone_ who came to get the bounty shot at CNav ships, well, then he’s wrong. And he should be prepared to have that claim challenged. > [@Miran\_Tereven](#): > > What matters is that people from my nation died because a group of independents offered cash rewards for things only found on their ships. No, people from your nation died because capsuleers decided to use violence to get something when the use of violence was unnecessary. You are, in effect, claiming that if someone ganks a miner, scoops their ore and sells it in Jita, anyone buying ore in Jita is responsible for the gank. ---
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 8:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/5517 "2022-09-16T08:12:58Z")
Im not sure which is bigger waste time and bandwidth, debating with that moron Culome or a Sansha True Slave, but it seems my peers saw fit to engage with both. The focus should not be on clashing with every capsule-demented cretin that gets off on inspiring the ire of others in public, but determining if this bounty against the Caldari Navy was, in fact, simply the work of a spineless traitor posting it in ARC’s name (something that any responsible organization would have disavowed quickly as to not be associated with this) or the Consortium’s actual stance. Ms. Raske’s statement gives me hope for the former, yet it still does not condemn or disavow Priano-hnolku’s actions. Until this clarification is given, ARC and their known associates will be treated as enemies of the State. ---
**Author:** ![Miran\_Tereven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/miran_tereven/32/383453_2.png) [@Miran\_Tereven](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Miran_Tereven)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 10:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/5518 "2022-09-16T10:40:20Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > No, people from your nation died because capsuleers decided to use violence to get something when the use of violence was unnecessary. The fact that you chose to sift through post-battle wreckage in a cloaked ship doesn’t change that other Capsuleers did attack the Caldari Navy head-on to obtain the data. That happened, I saw it, and I will hold the people who flashed ISK at those Capsuleers in contempt for it. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 10:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/5519 "2022-09-16T10:46:05Z")
> [@Miran\_Tereven](#): > > The fact that you chose to sift through post-battle wreckage in a cloaked ship doesn’t change that other Capsuleers did attack the Caldari Navy head-on to obtain the data. No, it doesn’t. And I never said it did. But the people who bear responsibility for Caldari Navy vessels being destroyed are the people who chose to destroy them, not the people who, in effect, just put up a buy order in Jita. > [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > Until this clarification is given, ARC and their known associates will be treated as enemies of the State. Like that’s anything new. You and the rest of Kim’s Krakhed Kommandos made up your minds about them long before they actually _did_ anything. After all, you’re one of the people who’s been railing against ARC since the days when you openly flew for the enemies of the State. ---
**Author:** ![Nessi\_Narana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nessi_narana/32/391389_2.png) [@Nessi\_Narana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nessi_Narana)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 1:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/5520 "2022-09-16T13:31:26Z")
Don’t you people have better stuff to do than still beating this dead horse? Do you really think somebody on either side of this outrage/discussion will change their opinions/policies? Nobody cares, go shoot each other in space if you all hate each other so much. The interesting part is what the hell are doing the trigs there? Not how the data got to the public ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 3:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/5522 "2022-09-16T15:16:17Z")
> [@Makoto\_Priano](#): > > Kim, anyone who desires to commit genocide is an enemy of humanity. > > Which means you. Typical Makoto is back at her obvious groundless accusations and slanders. What are you trying now, to earn a largest and heaviest “Liar of YC124” medal? Or you want to prove to whole IGS how rotten to the core you are? Anyone still not aware of it? ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 3:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718/5523 "2022-09-16T15:30:39Z")
> [@Miran\_Tereven](#): > > Source? I have actually explained it all just aove, please, for Maker’s sake _dont make me repeat it all over again._ > [@Miran\_Tereven](#): > > You also accuse me of slander because I speak ill of Provists and Dragonaurs, though. No. Again, please read the legal notice that has been sent to you, was it mentioning any Provist or Dragonaur? No. You have been slandering one of the most merited Protectorate corporations of the past. I am considering sending a new notice about recognizing you as a wanted suspect if you refuse to answer for your crimes in a honorable manner. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718.md?page=271) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/off-topic-thread-vol-2/171718.md?page=273)