# Ok…NOW I think Eve is dying **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 22, 2023, 4:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378 "2023-09-22T16:48:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 2:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/205 "2023-10-26T02:31:58Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > It would also be nice to get an active mining mode. That wouldn’t prevent people from mining as they currently are, but active play should be rewarded. Active mining mode should have space Tetris, kinda like explorers get Minesweeper. You have to orient the rocks to make them fit, and don’t stack fiery kernite next to plagio… Watch out for space weevils! ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 2:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/206 "2023-10-26T02:36:13Z")
> [@Annah\_Von\_Castel](#): > > I even think you killed the post 😂 tbh, we were the only ones keeping the post alive. 😛 My posts are relevant to the op too… there’s plenty of reasons to be excited for Vanguard integration. So no, EVE isn’t dying, it’s about to enter it’s golden age. > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Active mining mode should have space Tetris, kinda like explorers get Minesweeper. You have to orient the rocks to make them fit, and don’t stack fiery kernite next to plagio! Watch out for space weevils! Absolutely. It definitely needs a minigame. Though, I kind of think it needs to be a puzzle where you remove elements that are already put together, rather than trying to piece something together. Just to fit more thematically. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Von\_Castel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_von_castel/32/439576_2.png) [@Annah\_Von\_Castel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Von_Castel)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 2:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/207 "2023-10-26T02:40:03Z")
Your post are so long than I broke my finger to scroll up on my phone 😂😂😂😂. > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > My posts are relevant to the op too… That’s why I loled and didn’t red flag your comment 🫡🫡 ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 2:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/208 "2023-10-26T02:43:02Z")
Yeah, fair enough. Pretty sure the conversation is over anyway, as there’s not much value in continuing. ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 6:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/209 "2023-10-26T06:53:06Z")
Of course as where there are miners … gankers will follow! ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 6:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/210 "2023-10-26T06:59:06Z")
How about NO, it’s very productive and easy to follow other than the idea of asteroid belts orbiting a star ⭐ ^ ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 10:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/211 "2023-10-26T10:34:52Z")
The bit about asteroid belts orbiting the star, is more or less suggesting rocks could spawn anywhere in that circular orbital. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/1/3/913626bffd68ae186aa918baa481c04c6392030e.png) Not necessarily that the celestials would physically move. (That would be cool, but probably not realistic for EVE.) CCP might choose to have a few static fields… or new ones could just spawn somewhere on that circle once the old field gets mined out. Mining anoms and sigs would also spawn along that spline. There’s a few different ways to go with it, but I do think something should change about how they’re presented currently, because they’re a bit awkward the way they are now. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 6:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/212 "2023-10-28T06:46:45Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > I already did. If you don’t have the intellect to understand the arguments, I can’t help you. So thats a no then, ok > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Tidi wont affect the fps module. Except it will, the fact that you seem unable to grasp this key important detail is your main issue > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > It will be on separate server architecture. Sure, but thats not the silver bullet you think it will be > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > And even if there’s weapons firing at capsuleers from vanguard, the only thing affected will be that specific weapon emplacement. Anything related to something that affects progress of anything on TQ will be affected by TiDi taking place, you have no choice but to run the timers in sync with each other less you end up with a situation where the space side of it is literally unable to do anything to affect the progress being taken in the FPS because their ability to respond has been slowed down to a snails pace This is the fundamental issue with having anything taking place in realtime in the 2 games, which is part of the reason i very much doubt its going to be realtime, another big nail in that coffin is latency, CCP has lots of experience dealing with a game that has a 1 second server tickrate, dealing with an FPS is an entirely different beast because latency becomes a much larger issue, latency doesn’t affect EVE to the same degree because of the tickrate > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Sov will always be a niche activity. Sure, but even then a sov battle can exceed the number of players that entire game even has at any one time, there is niche and then there is niche > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > The stories will draw people in For most people the stories aren’t going to matter, they will want to shoot things, even having sat here for 19 years and been around some of these massive battles the story doesn’t matter anywhere near as much to most people as the battle itself > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > and the masses will enjoy the more “instant gratification” game modes. Except that this is going to be the majority of people playing an FPS, hate to break it to you but that community can barely manage to tolerate small timers and objectives, they aren’t going to really want to engage with things with timers the scale of which EVE is used to > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Those games are garbage and are mostly played by children, so I very much doubt the majority of their players pay to speed up the timers. And those “children” are going to be the main population of this FPS lol > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > And you think that can’t happen with Vanguard? Correct, given the limited number of places any battle is going to be able to handle you are basically going to have to sit there and wait for things to start or do you somehow think these vanguard battles are going to manage to have hundreds of players in the same instance? once its full its full, unlike EVE there won’t be a way for you to join once that server is at the player cap unless someone leaves, with EVE you can force a player to leave the system by killing their pod, in VG you’re going to keep respawning in the same instance so you won’t get the same cycling of players in and out > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > The players exist as an “infomorph”… which means lore wise / game design wise players can teleport to the action when it pops off. Sure, but you’re going to have to be in a group and ready for the time that action “pops off” and if you’re not ready you’re going to miss your chance as those instances will fill up pretty quickly, if you’re not ready at go time then you’re probably going to miss the fight > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > You’re just showing yourself not understanding how this stuff works. Citation needed > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Tidi slows server activity down to allow the server to process everything happening. I am aware, the side effect of this is that anything outside of that system is unaffected by that slowdown directly, even 1 jump over the simulation runs at normal speeds, meaning if you were able to open a live view of the system experiencing TiDi everything would appear to run in slow motion, hence if you were trying to view a TiDi space battle from a station where its interior wasn’t experiencing that same time dilation you would see the rest of the space battle as if it were in slow motion > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > That doesn’t prevent the Vanguard client from reading the position of ships from the server and then displaying those ships moving and guns firing with local, client based animations. It does prevent them from doing it in real time however, because it won’t know how the rest of the battle is going to play out until the server is done processing it, hence any visuals you’re going to see out of a window on the station will not actually be of the battle as it happens but instead either pre-rendered or generated by the game randomly in order to give you the illusion that a fast paced space battle is going on outside > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > They’ll be moving and firing in slow motion, but it wont be a slide show. You’re the one who said things would drop to 1 fps, which is client side behavioral language (ie: not affected by tidi.) Yes i used words you were likely to understand, seems i was mistaken so i shall ELI5 it for you The server operates on a 1 second tickrate at full speed, this means you would only be able to update the positions of all ships and entities in the simulation once per second at best, yes i used the term FPS because its simple for most people to understand but in this case the “frame” is not an actual visual frame but a timeframe snapshot of the battle, your PC will not affect that in the slightest because if its based on the current snapshot of whats going on in space then it will be dramatically slowed down when TiDi kicks in because that frame of time will be stretched out meaning your client will not have any new data to update that render with, or rather, the amount of changed data will be so insignificantly small that the player isn’t actually going to notice Does that clear it up for you? > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > It’s like you understand half of the picture. Tidi affects the position of everything and the various actions taking place, but your computer still has to render everything in the environment. And i’m still failing to see how the specs of your machine affect the actual simulation which happens on the server and not on your local machine, yes your GPU has to render the 2000 ships on it, but even if your machine was a literal potato hooked up to the internet the server wouldn’t care and the speed of the simulation wouldn’t change because that is entirely independent of whats being rendered on your machine > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > If you’re experiencing a “slide show” that’s local frame rate and it means your computer isn’t able to render the environment fast enough to give you smooth experience. You’re still getting a slideshow regardless of how smooth everything looks, i don’t think you understand how client updates actually work, it can only render what the simulation sends it, TiDi slows down that simulation for everyone, even with a top of the line machine your client will still only get updates at set intervals, you still seem to be hung up on the FPS number in relation to the game being a slideshow Doesn’t matter if you have 5000 FPS, your client is still going to render a slideshow because thats all the data it has access to thanks to TiDi slowing down the simulation > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > This is the reason your corp and alliance leaders will tell you to turn off brackets when you’re in one of those fleet fights, to give your computer a bit less to render. Which again, has no impact on the data the server has to render, thats entirely clientside and will only really have any kind of impact to you personally, it does not affect the server simulation speed in the slightest and during TiDi it won’t speed up the battle it will only speed up how quickly your client processes the data its sent when it gets sent, you’re still reliant on the server actually updating the simulation however > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > No. Frame rate of rendering is not the same as the server side simulation speed. The former is client side, and the later is server side. Yes we’re again at the part where you seem hung up on clientside FPS, i should have just given you the proper explanation in the first place so refer to above > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > But considering how you don’t seem to understand how you could watch the battle unfold in slow motion without it being “1 fps” I’m guessing you don’t actually understand the tech involved. No the part i misunderstood was how hung up on the term FPS you would get, yeah thats on me, it was meant to simplify things for you, seems maybe i didn’t simplify it enough > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Yes, but you don’t seem to. Oh i very much do unfortunately > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > This is irrelevant to the point made. You were saying it was a technological limitation (due to the “skill system” employed by CCP in EVE Online that would require a session change.) Where did i say that the skill system would be the issue? session changes are more than just skills they also update stats and let the server know something has changed, changing your loadout would also be a session change of sorts, anything that involves a loading screen would be considered a session change so loading in to a new map would be the main instance here > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > As for the ui to change the loadout, CCP already demonstrated that in their demo, when the player manufactured ammo. Thats just changing consumables, not really the same thing as swapping out the weapon entirely, the gun is still functionally the same, all you’re doing is loading different ammo in to it, its like loading a gun with different bullets, its still the same gun > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Based on the video you likely didn’t watch, that is official lore since it was produced by CCP. And where in said video does it show you a size comparison to a capsule? Please feel free to link the timestamp > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Destroyers don’t last long in big fleet fights Pretty sure there are nearly always small light tackle sat on the field, an interceptor can do the same, don’t get hung up on destroyers there bud 🙂 > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > You can lock bombs from stealth bombers So go shoot one, actually damage it with your weapons 🙂 > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > but it doesn’t mean the player would be successful at the timing. They don’t really need timing, fit a few firewall ships with 8 smartbombs and you have enough coverage to negate all the pods, we’ve done it before to deal with missiles and they will move far faster than a boarding pod > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > It does require an EVE account. I never said it wouldn’t require an account, i said it would never require you to have played EVE, you can play VG without ever having loaded up the EVE client at all ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 12:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/213 "2023-10-28T12:10:13Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > CCP might choose to have a few static fields… or new ones could just spawn somewhere on that circle once the old field gets mined out. Ah, but in reality there’s also Trojan asteroids occupying the Lagrange points of larger planets. Every planet has 5 relatively stable Lagrange points. Jupiter has about 5000 Trojan asteroids in each of its L4 and L5 Lagrange points…that are 400 million miles from the planet and seemingly in the middle of nowhere yet have stable orbits the same as that of Jupiter. Saturn has this too. Quite literally a swarm of asteroids as you would find in Eve. ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 5:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/214 "2023-10-28T17:41:46Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Ah, but in reality there’s also Trojan asteroids occupying the Lagrange points of larger planets. Every planet has 5 relatively stable Lagrange points. Jupiter has about 5000 Trojan asteroids in each of its L4 and L5 Lagrange points…that are 400 million miles from the planet and seemingly in the middle of nowhere yet have stable orbits the same as that of Jupiter. Saturn has this too. Quite literally a swarm of asteroids as you would find in Eve. Right on. fair enough. Might be cool to label those fields as Lagrange points then. I’d still really appreciate actual asteroid belts though. Especially if it’s tied into a more exploratory aspect of mining like exists in some of the other same games I mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 5:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/215 "2024-01-26T17:42:07Z")
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