# Ok…NOW I think Eve is dying **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 22, 2023, 4:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378 "2023-09-22T16:48:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Wesfahrn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wesfahrn/32/392292_2.png) [@Wesfahrn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wesfahrn)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 12:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/145 "2023-10-11T12:54:16Z")
They had to make a deal with another company caus they needed money, somehow the CEO was allowed to stay, then a couple years later they had to raise money again by going to crypto bros of all people. In another 2 years they will just be bankrupt caus noone is going to give them money anymore. They could have just made a good game that generations to come could play instead of doing all this cheap and poorly thought out stuff. I mean the game is neglected for 10 years or so. And what is the next expansion? A new solar system, big whoop. There is a myriad of things that need to be fixed and improved. But whatev. Its their game they can do what they want ---
**Author:** ![Wesfahrn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wesfahrn/32/392292_2.png) [@Wesfahrn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wesfahrn)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 1:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/146 "2023-10-11T13:34:08Z")
Look at the counter-strike brand, its just growing every year. It started as a mod, and then Valve bought it. And they have managed to steer this thing into a giant success, despite going through many iterations of the game. From a mod in Half-Life 1 to a stand-alone game, and the sequel has just come out. And its not because its an FPS its popular, its because its a good game, and valve takes care of it. This is in contrast to CCP and EVE Online, which is a brand that shrinks every year. But the CEO is allowed to stay, probably the “creative” manager has been the same for the last 15 years as well. Despite the brand and active players shrinking every year. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/d/6/b/d6bd1a094e873bdbb45214a88d279908d434209e.jpeg) ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/1/e/2/1e254c02ea0bb860b2dedc47ec005f0c16ab012e.png) Hilmar and his cohorts should have been replaced years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elinore_en_divalone/32/507815_2.png) [@Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elinore_en_Divalone)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 3:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/147 "2023-10-11T15:34:26Z")
What kind of game is CS:GO compared to EVE Online? …What is EVE Vanguard going to be compared to CS:GO? If having a certain kind of game can get you so much players… and not having it (or **loosing** it wink wink) makes you to loose them, then future looks bright again for New Eden 🙂 Edit: I returned to New Eden after 10 years because of rumors, of _unnamed EVE shooter_ being developed, started to make waves at the end of 2022. I was mulling my return decision since then for three months before finally making my mind up in January. I got the hunch. Same hunch that got me started playing EVE in January 2013 🙂 This time there is no obscure exclusive hardware that is going to die in half of a year into the game launch 🤣 I hope CCP won’t let be fooled again by some sh\*tcorp’s marketing ppl… ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 4:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/148 "2023-10-11T16:53:40Z")
> [@Wesfahrn](#): > > They could have just made a good game that generations to come could play instead of doing all this cheap and poorly thought out stuff. They did, the problem is EVE is a niche game and has never had mass appeal because it requires more than 2 braincells to play > [@Wesfahrn](#): > > Look at the counter-strike brand, its just growing every year. Ahh yes, lets compare a spreadsheet based MMO to a game that requires less than 2 IQ points to play > [@Wesfahrn](#): > > And its not because its an FPS its popular It is though, if it were an MMO it wouldn’t be as popular ---
**Author:** ![Wesfahrn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wesfahrn/32/392292_2.png) [@Wesfahrn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wesfahrn)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 5:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/149 "2023-10-11T17:15:25Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > EVE is a niche game and has never had mass appeal because it requires more than 2 braincells to play Clear example of CCPsplaining The truth is that EVE online is not as sophisticated as you think. The main reason it doesent appeal is because its not immersive and a big reason for that is the terrible UI, the instant feeling of money grab with the Alpha/Omega system + lack of intelligent new content ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/150 "2023-10-11T17:28:14Z")
> [@Wesfahrn](#): > > the instant feeling of money grab with the Alpha/Omega system I’m just going to check one thing, but, you do know that hasn’t always existed right? so citing that as a reason people don’t play the game is not really that valid, and even if you were to up and remove that, all you would actually do is kill the game off because people aren’t going to be interested in a subscription model and an entirely free model doesn’t work for EVE > [@Wesfahrn](#): > > and a big reason for that is the terrible UI The UI isn’t actually that bad, the issue is its not big and flashy and boiled down to 3 buttons, ergo complexity, some people don’t like having to figure things out or do even slightly complex things like work out how transversal works, they expect instant gratification, which EVE doesn’t pander to So, seeing as you brought it up, exactly which parts of the UI do YOU think are bad? and how would YOU improve them without dumbing it down too much > [@Wesfahrn](#): > > The main reason it doesent appeal is because its not immersive I mean, its literally immersion, loss is real, choices matter, what sort of immersion are you expecting from a game where players are the main content? we create the content this isn’t WoW with some grand storyline playing out in the background due to there actually being nothing for players to really do, here we create the story, our interactions are the history of EVE ---
**Author:** ![Wesfahrn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wesfahrn/32/392292_2.png) [@Wesfahrn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wesfahrn)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 5:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/151 "2023-10-11T17:32:45Z")
“The subscription model doesent appeal” “The game is too old” “players are too stupid to play EVE” With this attitude the game can ONLY get worse and the untimely demise becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, not because of the reasons stated, but because they stop even trying to improve or keep up the quality of the game and new and old players just go elsewhere as a result. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 7:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/152 "2023-10-11T19:09:48Z")
So then detail what you think would need to be changed, if you’re so confident that it needs to be changed put your money where your mouth is 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 9:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/153 "2023-10-11T21:11:50Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > Not sure what a game engine has to do with the database on the back end, thats not even remotely an excuse Different programming languages use different code. Perhaps CCP can make the database work for both games eventually, that’s certainly my hope, but it’s clear they’re going to limit the functionality to begin with. Part of the issue may be that they want to replace large sections of EVE’s database structure when they update to Python 3. > [@Cypherous](#): > > If i’m not using my capsuleer why would i want to waste time harvesting worthless resources? I mean, you wouldn’t have to, but other’s might want to. And it’s my hope ccp will allow a player to log into both Vanguard and EVE at the same time, with the same account (provided it’s an omega account.) This will allow players to fly to a location in EVE, activate a poi location in the open world which then creates a vanguard mission / match / ect. Then there’s a bunch of potential for cross play between the two games. The ideal for game design is to not make it mandatory, but rewarding (in terms of fun) to be able to play with other people and have the cross play options available. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 9:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/154 "2023-10-11T21:14:46Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Different programming languages use different code. Sure, but all of them can handle basic data, unreal isn’t going to struggle accessing MSSQL servers lol Case in point > **[Microsoft SQL Integration in Code Plugins - UE Marketplace](https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/en-US/product/ms-sql-integration)** > > The Microsoft SQL Integration plugin allows for connection to and retrieval of data and images from a Microsoft SQL Server database in Unreal Engine projects. So no, its not because they “can’t” access the database, its because they don’t _want_ it to, its a deliberate choice not a technical limitation ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 9:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/155 "2023-10-11T21:18:14Z")
Shrug, you may be right, but I haven’t seen their stuff. I do know a large chunk of their programmers are scared to touch that old code… and potentially parts of the database too. ---
**Author:** ![Mii\_Lady](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mii_lady/32/380260_2.png) [@Mii\_Lady](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mii_Lady)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 9:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/156 "2023-10-11T21:47:49Z")
The lack of a revamped PI, planetary flight/landing or WIS was kinda a disappointment. Was expecting a massive reveal and yea was kinda meh. The FPS is a waste of money is some regards, (FPS market is notoriously fickle) In other regards if its a loss leader to attract new people to EVE then i guess thats ok. Dust was a mess compared to its contemporaries like Halo Reach and I doubt CCP will be bale to do it better this time around. I give it 9 months before it is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 2:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/157 "2023-10-12T02:06:04Z")
> [@Mii\_Lady](#): > > WIS People really need to just give up on that particular dead horse, it won’t really work how people expect it to and most people will simply ignore it due to it making all interactions that much slower and most people ending up in empty stations or being in stations just full of text bubbles from all the bots spamming in jita local lol ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 2:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/158 "2023-10-12T02:17:40Z")
Not gonna get into the whole separate clone thing in regard to vanguard. Its just a test phase at the moment and not even a full version of it. At least try it out. Who knows, down the line capsuleers may be able to do it. But temporarily its not. As a test bed i can understand not allowing our mains to do it Im not a fan of fps games at all but im even willing to check it out ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 5:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/159 "2023-10-12T05:21:57Z")
> [@Mii\_Lady](#): > > The lack of a revamped PI, planetary flight/landing or WIS was kinda a disappointment. > [@Mii\_Lady](#): > > The FPS is a waste of money is some regards You do realize the same tech that can be used for the fps can also be used for WIS too right? Carbon is not a good engine for non space related stuff. Once things get ironed out, the vanguard client will be great for creating station environments both for capsuleers to walk around in for various reasons, and for fps bros to run around for the purposes of sov warfare. Both a PI revamp and Planetary Flight are also ideally situated for vanguard. It’ll just take some time as the initial game will be a bit more basic than all that. > [@Cypherous](#): > > people will simply ignore it due to it making all interactions that much slower There was a battle bots arena in one of the short stories years ago that I do think would be a bit of a draw. With the ability to spectate and bet on matches, it would fit right in with the concept of that content being geared more toward black market activity. Or, you could just skip the bots/ drones and have it allow spectating of the normal fps vanguard gameplay with a capture the flag mechanic. Stations also have limited office space, so it would be used as a way to advertise specific contracts. Of course, the largest use for WIS will be for vanguard players. The game will be a bit more visceral, so they’ll need to physically go to a location in a station to access station services. Hopefully there wont be any speech bubbles though… \*\*\* shivers. \*\*\* ---
**Author:** ![New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/new_order_enforcer/32/387867_2.png) [@New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/New_Order_Enforcer)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 6:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/160 "2023-10-12T06:28:23Z")
> [@Mii\_Lady](#): > > The FPS is a waste of money is some regards It is, like Dust (now Dust2), Valkyrie, Faping in Stations… ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/161 "2023-10-12T21:03:49Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Once things get ironed out, the vanguard client will be great for creating station environments both for capsuleers to walk around in for various reasons, and for fps bros to run around for the purposes of sov warfare. Vanguard is running in UE though not carbon > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > There was a battle bots arena in one of the short stories years ago that I do think would be a bit of a draw. For about 5 minutes, not for long term use though > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > With the ability to spectate and bet on matches Yeah not sure CCP wants to really do straight up gambling in this day and age, hypernets are borderline as it is > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Or, you could just skip the bots/ drones and have it allow spectating of the normal fps vanguard gameplay with a capture the flag mechanic. Different engine though so you would have to open up vanguard to spectate vanguard gameplay ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 3:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/162 "2023-10-13T03:51:06Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > > > Once things get ironed out, the vanguard client will be great for creating station environments both for capsuleers to walk around in for various reasons, and for fps bros to run around for the purposes of sov warfare. > > Vanguard is running in UE though not carbon Not sure what your point is. > [@Cypherous](#): > > > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > > > Or, you could just skip the bots/ drones and have it allow spectating of the normal fps vanguard gameplay with a capture the flag mechanic. > > Different engine though so you would have to open up vanguard to spectate vanguard gameplay Yes, that is what you’d have to do. It’s all the same account though, so the only downside is the inconvenience of running a separate game client. > [@Cypherous](#): > > > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > > > With the ability to spectate and bet on matches > > Yeah not sure CCP wants to really do straight up gambling in this day and age, hypernets are borderline as it is There’s no way to withdraw the money legally, so it should be fine. As you said, hypernets already exist. ---
**Author:** ![Brun\_Warbear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brun_warbear/32/380353_2.png) [@Brun\_Warbear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brun_Warbear)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 12:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/163 "2023-10-13T12:12:33Z")
This thing doesn’t match my completely baseless expectations therefore the thing is dead! Dead I say! ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 12:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378/164 "2023-10-13T12:20:22Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Not sure what your point is. My “point” is that because its an entirely different engine, and more specifically an entirely separately installed application, that it can’;t be used by the EVE client at all, its like wondering if you could get WoW to render inside of calculator > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > There’s no way to withdraw the money legally, so it should be fine. As you said, hypernets already exist. Right, but hypernets are borderline because its technically a raffle and not actual gambling, betting on something is 100% gambling and it doesn’t matter if there is no way to withdraw money, its the same reason lootboxes got railed on by every court Even single player games have to declare that they feature gambling themes even though there is no way to make anything from those [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ok-now-i-think-eve-is-dying/421378.md?page=9)