# On the ndokassi discovery - who do you think has jurisdiction? **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [January 25, 2019, 9:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889 "2019-01-25T21:11:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889/61 "2019-01-28T21:22:41Z")
> [@Teinyhr](#): > > And I don’t agree with your assesment. That’s fine, but that’s not what you told me to piss off about. You told me to piss off because you weren’t in possession of the items, and weren’t deciding anything… > [@Teinyhr](#): > > I’m not in possession of them, I’m not deciding anything, so piss off, will you? See? And that’s something _I never claimed you were_. Stars, look at the line you said that in response to: it’s about _you asking the question_, not _you making decisions_. > [@Teinyhr](#): > > When we’re talking about archaeology, yes, that is exactly the case. Usually, that’s because the original owners aren’t around anymore. The Brutor _are_. > [@Teinyhr](#): > > And telling the Galar-Yu to turn over everything is making them outsiders on their own discovery. Which also hasn’t been advocated. From the start, I said that the only _established_ multi-Tribal resolution body should appoint legal representatives from both Tribes, along with mediators. Presumably, those legal representatives would be working in close consultation with the scientists themselves—the lawyers can’t be expected to know the esoterica of the science, and the scientists can’t be expected to know the esoterica of the law. We have structures in place to handle precisely this kind of dispute. Why not let them? ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889/62 "2019-01-28T21:27:50Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Usually, that’s because the original owners aren’t around anymore. The Brutor _are_ . The Kul-Brutor who actually (presumedly) owned them aren’t. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Which also hasn’t been advocated. “_Those artifacts are a legacy for all Brutor, and they belong to us. The Galar-Yu did not even consult us before digging there and they should return these precious relics_.” - Sukandi Bjokur ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889/63 "2019-01-28T21:32:03Z")
> [@Teinyhr](#): > > The Kul-Brutor who actually (presumedly) owned them aren’t. The Kul-Brutor were Brutor. If a Vherokior family dies, do their belongings not revert to more distant kin? Are they just… ‘everyone grab what you can, congratulations’? > [@Teinyhr](#): > > “ _Those artifacts are a legacy for all Brutor, and they belong to us. The Galar-Yu did not even consult us before digging there and they should return these precious relics_ .” - Sukandi Bjokur Clarification, then: Which also hasn’t been advocated _here_, in this thread, where you’ve been discussing it, by any of the people with whom you’re discussing it. If you want to take exception to Sukandi Bjokur’s statement, feel free, but getting mad at people _here_, who _didn’t_ say it is about as effective as getting mad at Jason Gallente for something Alar Chakaid says. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 9:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889/64 "2019-01-28T21:48:20Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > The Kul-Brutor were Brutor. If a Vherokior family dies, do their belongings not revert to more distant kin? Are they just… ‘everyone grab what you can, congratulations’? More aptly, someone finds something near a place where your great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great aunt lost stuff that nobody is really even sure anymore what it was that she lost, do you demand that person to give you whatever they found because it might be something that belonged to your family? Lines of succession blur as eons drudge on. Even so, I already said, that yes, they do have more probable claim to those artifacts than anyone else. Just that they have a claim for them does not mean that they are entitled to order everyone else around. > [@Arrendis](#): > > but getting mad at people I’m only mad at you because you keep twisting my words. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889/65 "2019-01-28T22:05:58Z")
You’re getting pissy at me about things Sukandi Bjokur said, but _I’m_ the one twisting someone’s words? Are you sure you’re not reading into things motives and malice that was never there in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 10:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889/66 "2019-01-28T22:09:48Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Are you sure you’re not reading into things motives and malice that was never there in the first place? Could ask the exact same thing about you. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889/67 "2019-01-28T22:11:20Z")
Well, I’m not ascribing motives or malice, just commenting on the anger you’ve _explicitly stated_ exists. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 10:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889/68 "2019-01-28T22:12:25Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Well, I’m not ascribing motives or malice, just commenting on the anger you’ve _explicitly stated_ exists. Yet in the past 6 months if there has been any way to interpret anything I say in the worst way possible, you’ve done it. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 10:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889/69 "2019-01-28T22:15:15Z")
Well, that certainly hasn’t been a result of any conscious or consistent malice or intention on my part. And, as I firmly believe the onus to convey our intentions is upon the speaker, not the listener, that’s on me. I apologize for giving you that impression, Teinyhr. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 10:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889/70 "2019-01-28T22:29:34Z")
Apology accepted. Now, can we move on to the fact that I’ve been advocating for co-operation from the start, because essentially we’ve been in agreement about everything, except one thing: Right now the artifacts are in the possesession of Galar-Yu and in their research facility. I don’t see the need to start bouncing them (or hordes of mediators, councilmembers and lawyers) around the galaxy just to satisfy what I assume is Sukandi Bjokur’s ego. Because that’s what I believe is essentially the root of the problem here, from my perspective the Ihumanoana Circle is the insanely jealous party here. Both are archaeological Circles, whose passion is to uncover the past. Except if it’s specifically their past, then nobody but them is allowed to study it. And that, my friends, is just pants-on-head-stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889/71 "2019-01-28T22:35:39Z")
I wouldn’t advocate moving them _at all_ until the dispute’s resolved. My position is just that until there’s a resolution, and _in seeking that resolution_, it has to be kept in mind that this is a very different situation than digging up the remains of vanished civilizations. If it’s established that the original owners of the artifacts were Kul-Brutor, that doesn’t necessarily mean the contents were Clan-specific items. With that in mind, care needs to be taken to ensure sensitivity to the needs and concerns of the Brutor Tribe, well ahead of any consideration of pure scientific curiosity. Because no archaeological inquiry is worth conflict and bloodshed between the Tribes, and let’s face it, while I agree that > [@Teinyhr](#): > > And that, my friends, is just pants-on-head-stupid. I still hold that > [@Arrendis](#): > > ‘That’s ■■■■■■■ stupid’ really doesn’t seem to stop _any_ capsuleers. I can’t see why it’d stop baseliners. Even if everyone involved _should_ grow up and handle it like adults, they’re human… so they probably won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 10:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889/72 "2019-01-28T22:39:42Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Because no archaeological inquiry is worth conflict and bloodshed between the Tribes I _sincerely_ doubt that’d be the case. Plenty of “we won’t trade with and talk to you, like ever” -stuff, probably. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 10:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889/73 "2019-01-28T22:40:18Z")
I bet the Gallente felt that way, too. Better to be safe than sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Constantin\_Baracca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/constantin_baracca/32/170074_2.png) [@Constantin\_Baracca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Constantin_Baracca)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 12:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889/74 "2019-01-29T00:40:38Z")
> [@Teinyhr](#): > > > [@Arrendis](#): > > > > Because no archaeological inquiry is worth conflict and bloodshed between the Tribes > > I _sincerely_ doubt that’d be the case. Plenty of “we won’t trade with and talk to you, like ever” -stuff, probably. I do think Arrendis has a point, there. Certainly, the ndokassi have likely preserved their contents for centuries, and should at least continue to do so for a few more weeks. It does to make sure there are no hurt feelings, especially on discoveries that should be of interest and pride to all Matari tribes. It can certainly take time, and it’s not as if everyone makes it easy, but it would surely be time well spent to avoid any ill feelings over the subject. Even if it doesn’t come to bloodshed (and I tend to agree with you that it ‘probably’ won’t), it’s worth untangling the political threads first. No sense in tramping on toes on something that isn’t an immediate emergency. ---
**Author:** ![Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/melisma_ramijozana/32/168474_2.png) [@Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Melisma_Ramijozana)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 3:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889/75 "2019-01-29T03:26:18Z")
Grief above and below, this perfectly good debate has turned into a catfight. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 5:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889/76 "2019-01-29T05:58:22Z")
No, just a misunderstanding, hopefully cleared up now. ---
**Author:** ![Rana\_Ash](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rana_ash/32/374123_2.png) [@Rana\_Ash](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rana_Ash)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 7:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889/77 "2019-01-29T07:18:22Z")
I still would like to see a third party to be mediating this, be it the tribal council or one of the other tribes that has no stake in this. Before some hot blooded moron goes and does something stupid, like steal the containers or bonk someone over the head with a clipboard… ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 8:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889/78 "2019-01-29T08:45:11Z")
> [@Melisma\_Ramijozana](#): > > Grief above and below, this perfectly good debate has turned into a catfight. You clearly haven’t seen me and her actually fight. More like a friendly tussle, that. Anyway, off topic. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 8:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889/79 "2019-01-29T08:49:14Z")
> [@Rana\_Ash](#): > > I still would like to see a third party to be mediating this, be it the tribal council or one of the other tribes that has no stake in this. Before some hot blooded moron goes and does something stupid, like steal the containers or bonk someone over the head with a clipboard… I’m still perplexed by this notion. We can be our own worst enemy for sure, but I still find it just weird that this is something people think could turn into violent incident, even if it is just a couple of nerds throwing pencils. ---
**Author:** ![Chan\_aar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chan_aar/32/377560_2.png) [@Chan\_aar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chan_aar)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 9:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889/80 "2019-01-29T09:11:40Z")
> [@Teinyhr](#): > > just a couple of nerds throwing pencils. Sebbie pencil’s tend to be the armour piercing, fin stablised, discarding sabot type. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-ndokassi-discovery-who-do-you-think-has-jurisdiction/135889.md?page=5)