# On the Reality of Mining Permits **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [August 30, 2024, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reality-of-mining-permits/460089 "2024-08-30T17:57:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reality-of-mining-permits/460089/1 "2024-08-30T17:57:14Z")
Recently, I sold twelve mining permits at the discounted wholesale rate, earning a nice 1.2 billion isk for a few minutes of minimal effort. This raises an interesting philosophical question, which seems to be recurring. So then, the question of the day: **are mining permits real?** What are your thoughts? What defines reality? What constitutes ‘real’ in the sense of a fictitious videogame? Are mining permits part of the EvE Online canon? I certainly think so, as I run an alliance with a 12 year history of successfully funding itself through the sale and enforcement of mining permits. However, some people claim mining permits are not real! How can this be? Are those people trying to troll us, or scam new players into getting themselves ganked? I don’t understand, I bought one mining permit for 10 million isk in 2018, and because of that I won hundreds of billions of isk and my own personal vanity alliance. I’d say permits are both real and powerful! Is it not true that mining permits are widely sold across nullsec, lowsec, and the crabberholes? Is it not true that every capsuleer has a choice: either to pay for a permit, or die? If rent in nullsec is real, why wouldn’t it be equally real in Halaima or Osmon? I certainly believe this game has a healthy economic ecosystem, driven by the very real market in mining permits, and the prompt destruction of those who pretend mining permits are not real. The very existence of mining permits, widely published within the biographies of thousands of capsuleers, is itself indicative of a very real phenomenon. Of course, someone might not LIKE the idea of mining permits - but they don’t cease to exist, merely because you pretend they don’t exist. I now turn the discussion over to YOU, dear capsuleer. ===== This thread is a Frostpacker Free zone - no Frostposting allowed. ===== EDITOR’S NOTE: It is well established that mining permits are real in real-life. We are investigating here whether a real phenemenon in real life can also be real in a fictitious context. The reality of real mining permits should really be considered self-evident, and their real existence really suggests that the real burden of proof is on conspiracy theorists to ‘prove’ that mining permits do not really exist. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/6/f/1/6f1e737ad1d03f1cd45774e252bf4fee3c3b1fde.png) **===Bonus Thoughts===** ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/2/2/a/22a7d1cd6b07a2bdbbb093bdc6ad6fadca7d7022.png) I find it fascinating that real mining permits are often layered in such a way that a miner will generally need to obtain MULTIPLE mining permits. I am currently exploring various ways to mirror this reality in EvE Online, via a comprehensive universal code which will mandate a variety of mining permits and mining related paperwork. ---
**Author:** ![Salartarium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salartarium/32/468818_2.png) [@Salartarium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salartarium)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 6:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reality-of-mining-permits/460089/2 "2024-08-30T18:15:01Z")
There needs to be a Credly badge so people know it’s legit. Only legitimate and reputable organizations can issue Credly badges. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 6:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reality-of-mining-permits/460089/3 "2024-08-30T18:19:25Z")
It would be cool if EvE added badges for: Buy a Mining Permit! and Sell a Mining Permit! This kind of flair could help players track their progress. ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 6:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reality-of-mining-permits/460089/4 "2024-08-30T18:20:30Z")
Give each permit a serial number and keep them in a spreadsheet for your records. I’d say that makes them pretty real. ---
**Author:** ![Salartarium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salartarium/32/468818_2.png) [@Salartarium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salartarium)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 6:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reality-of-mining-permits/460089/5 "2024-08-30T18:25:28Z")
Project Awakening seems like it solves this problem. Permits could be added to the blockchain and the immutable ledger would establish trust. You could even automate the issuance of permits so agents could spend more of their time on enforcement! ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 6:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reality-of-mining-permits/460089/6 "2024-08-30T18:26:10Z")
And, much the same as with a physical permit, alteration of said permit would carry with it…consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 6:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reality-of-mining-permits/460089/7 "2024-08-30T18:26:59Z")
> [@QuakeGod](#): > > Give each permit a serial number We actually use a blockchain stable NFT coinbase. ---
**Author:** ![Sere\_O\_Asis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sere_o_asis/32/374997_2.png) [@Sere\_O\_Asis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sere_O_Asis)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 6:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reality-of-mining-permits/460089/8 "2024-08-30T18:29:04Z")
When I started playing back in 2013, I mined pretty much like every new player. I also belt ratted, so the “regulars” in the belts in their barges, and whatever, were used to seeing me fly around. On the day I graduated to flying a catalyst, a rite of passage for every Gallente pilot, I did my usual rounds of belt ratting in Pulin, an 0.5 system. Miners cleared out. After several days of flying my shiny catalyst and seeing rapidly emptying belts, I finally managed to start a conversation with a miner, who I knew had seen me numerous times, in my atron or incursus, and I just bluntly asked: “Why’s everybody leaving when I show up in a belt now?” “They’re afraid you’ll gank them.” I had to have this “ganking” concept explained to me. In, to my newbie mind, a hushed whisper, ganking, mining permits, CODE, and catalysts were explained. By golly those miners were afraid _of me!_ I flew around the rest of the day, pleased as punch, 🙂 So, I never doubted in this massive multiplayer _roleplaying_ game whether or not mining permits were real. Cause obviously, they were. This is a true story, one of Sere’s origin stories. ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 6:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reality-of-mining-permits/460089/9 "2024-08-30T18:31:11Z")
You can achieve the same effect by warping into a mining op in nullsec in, well, anything… ---
**Author:** ![Zedminer\_Severasse](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zedminer_severasse/32/377928_2.png) [@Zedminer\_Severasse](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zedminer_Severasse)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 6:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reality-of-mining-permits/460089/10 "2024-08-30T18:38:39Z")
Got my permit to mine. It was free. ![1000000624](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/a/1/6/a163810c0210f815a4e8c3543f3f6cda508c250a.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 8:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reality-of-mining-permits/460089/11 "2024-08-30T20:12:51Z")
There is no doubt that the Mining Permit issued by properly authorised persons, is real. Even if the sceptical ones among us believe that EVE is all ‘pixels’, they cannot explain why it is that mere ‘pixels’ can produce within the average belt-miner that surge of raw emotion (usually _negative_) which follows a successful gank. The Mining Permit is real in all places and at all times, because the consequences attendant upon its presence or absence in the pursuit of those activities to which it applies, are quite readily discerned. Here follow two examples; one from ‘Real Life’, the other from the Game. ![permit](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/5/a/5a84ca62139bb65fbd675a12a51923d2055a9251.jpeg) ![2024-08-30_21-01-36](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/2/7/9/2799907e6f33a7b96be9dbe3725da1ab021d9cf8.png) ---
**Author:** ![zazzmatazz\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zazzmatazz_xu/32/451037_2.png) [@zazzmatazz\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zazzmatazz_Xu)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 9:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reality-of-mining-permits/460089/12 "2024-08-30T21:34:54Z")
Must be getting boring in the gank world as now gankers are resorting to trolling about anti-gank. ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Drew](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_drew/32/395254_2.png) [@ISD\_Drew](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Drew)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 9:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reality-of-mining-permits/460089/13 "2024-08-30T21:49:38Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > It would be cool if EvE added badges for: > > Buy a Mining Permit! > > and > > Sell a Mining Permit! > > This kind of flair could help players track their progress. You could use medal/decorations for at least part of this? [Managing corporation members - EVE University Wiki](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Managing_corporation_members#Decorations) ---
**Author:** ![Akkar\_Kardashev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/akkar_kardashev/32/514189_2.png) [@Akkar\_Kardashev](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Akkar_Kardashev)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 9:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reality-of-mining-permits/460089/14 "2024-08-30T21:54:04Z")
I honestly don’t know if they’re real or some sort of role play meta to be honest, though I have seen them talked about for years, so if RP then incredibly committed RP. I have never bought one or been approached to buy one, even back when I would have been mining in a Vexor, and they were a thing then too. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 10:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reality-of-mining-permits/460089/15 "2024-08-30T22:01:09Z")
Thank you for the idea. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/7/c/9/7c970ee316df2369a7c3632e5d0f78ceb531e7eb.png) ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/2/9/4/294c410ca00de6bcbb82431123e1f339beb8ce1d.png) ---
**Author:** ![Felix\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/felix_frostpacker/32/420339_2.png) [@Felix\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Felix_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 10:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reality-of-mining-permits/460089/16 "2024-08-30T22:01:40Z")
> [@ISD\_Drew](#): > > You could use medal/decorations for at least part of this? [Managing corporation members - EVE University Wiki](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Managing_corporation_members#Decorations) Calm down miner ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 11:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reality-of-mining-permits/460089/17 "2024-08-30T23:01:25Z")
[![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/f/9/b/f9b8b9be37589dabcdd56b987ee35654919d6e22.jpeg "We're all people") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGBTKy4l4l8) ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reality-of-mining-permits/460089/18 "2024-08-30T23:27:35Z")
All Highsec miners are characters in a niche point-and-click space and trading sim. The people sitting at the keyboard, wielding hand and mouse - they are the focus of my attention. They may or may not be dumb; it is a simple matter to expose the foolish. Dumb people exist. No amount of hand-wringing will alter that fact. Is it dumb to decline to buy a Mining Permit? Yes. If we can say ‘We’re all people’ and judge such a claim to be meaningful, then any member of the Daucus Carota genus could surely say (if it could speak) ‘We’re all carrots’. Exactly what can be derived from such nonsensical drivel? Mind, I do not say that all belt-miners are dumb, but you have to ask why, when all the means to avoid the gank are at their disposal, they persist in ignoring them. Buy a Permit; Choose Safety! ---
**Author:** ![Felix\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/felix_frostpacker/32/420339_2.png) [@Felix\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Felix_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 12:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reality-of-mining-permits/460089/19 "2024-08-31T00:39:28Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > Buy a Permit; Choose Safety! > **Permits are a Scam** > > [https://youtu.be/SrP3vb9xEYA?t=22](https://youtu.be/SrP3vb9xEYA?t=22) ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 12:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reality-of-mining-permits/460089/20 "2024-08-31T00:46:02Z")
@Uriel_the_Flame This is that bad behaviour I was describing. Please inform your client that disrupting a No Frostpackers thread is unacceptable, and can only be forgiven following yet another 1 billion isk fine. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reality-of-mining-permits/460089.md?page=2)