# On the Reclamation of Floseswin **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [March 1, 2020, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205 "2020-03-01T21:16:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Zakir\_Fereyd](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zakir_fereyd/32/201906_2.png) [@Zakir\_Fereyd](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zakir_Fereyd)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 9:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/242 "2020-04-17T21:20:02Z")
The Kingdom bombardment of slave ghettoes was a legitimate response to attacks upon the Faithful by those slaves. The Federal and Republic sanctions are coercive economic policies with the intention of affecting Imperial internal politics. As for such sanctions being an attack? I would consider them not. However, I do consider them hostile due to the coercive intent involved. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 9:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/243 "2020-04-17T21:23:31Z")
The Holders might, if considering their rights alone. Slave liberation raids are with reference to the size of the slave population not nearly so problematic as those conducting them like to think. They are a tool to prompt behaviour from the Empire that seems unreasonable; were that reaction not granted to those who wish for it, and security improved to such a point that those engaging in such action are captured and themselves subject to enslavement it would become a less palatable hobby for the RJD (who one would have hoped had things of greater import to occupy their time). To bawl at the Inner Circle, or to give weight to prejudices against us with futile sanctions would be more damaging and expensive than compensating the Holders affected. Upholding Imperial Law is the responsibility of the Amarr alone. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/244 "2020-04-17T21:25:10Z")
> [@Zakir\_Fereyd](#): > > The Kingdom bombardment of slave ghettoes was a legitimate response to attacks upon the Faithful by those slaves. The Kingdom bombardment of slave ghettoes was an attack upon civilians who had already been attacked by Blood Raiders. The actions of those slaves who became violent under the influence of Deathglow were no more _their_ doing than if they’d taken place under the influence of TCMCs set to ‘be a murderbot’ for twenty-four hours. The Blood Raiders conducted that attack, using the biochemical machinery of the slaves’ bodies. And in response, Khanid attacked the _victims_. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 9:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/245 "2020-04-17T21:26:10Z")
None of which impacts their legality at all, nor makes it any less ridiculous, churlish, and deplorable to try to use _more_ attacks on civilians as a bargaining chip. ---
**Author:** ![Zakir\_Fereyd](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zakir_fereyd/32/201906_2.png) [@Zakir\_Fereyd](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zakir_Fereyd)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/246 "2020-04-17T21:29:18Z")
In the end slaves are the property of their Holders and one does with their property what one sees fit. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 9:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/247 "2020-04-17T21:30:08Z")
So much for claiming to have been ‘angels of mercy’, eh? Whatever justification you need to dip that wick, right boy? ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 9:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/248 "2020-04-17T21:30:27Z")
What else has ever been a bargaining chip between nations? My understanding is that you’re a logistician, you know full well the ripples even a small interruption in supply can cause. Sanctions are an attack on civilians hidden behind a smile and veneer of respectability. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 9:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/249 "2020-04-17T21:32:49Z")
We’ve had this discussion before: There is a massive difference between a small disruption that can—if the massively huge multi-region organization _wants_ to—be mitigated in ways that prevent any loss of life and only discomfit those who are best able to weather such discomfiture, and attacking a single smaller group in a such a complete and comprehensive way as to be _by design_ unable to be mitigated in the slightest. ---
**Author:** ![Zakir\_Fereyd](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zakir_fereyd/32/201906_2.png) [@Zakir\_Fereyd](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zakir_Fereyd)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/250 "2020-04-17T21:33:37Z")
It would be a mercy to end the life of a slave driven to madness like some rabid dog, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 9:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/251 "2020-04-17T21:34:28Z")
Except for that whole ‘the effects were temporary and it was well after the initial 24th period’ thing. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 9:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/252 "2020-04-17T21:38:37Z")
Do you believe your Sanmatar if presented with the choice would choose hardship for himself to mitigate a contracting economy? Do you believe your Chief would? A smaller impact is even more insidious, it prompts less concern. To mitigate it, one needs to be aware of the needs of those who will be impacted. Would they know much less care if a few million of the manumitted faithful died for the sake of their lifestyle? It’s not how the corridors of power work. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 9:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/253 "2020-04-17T21:44:24Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Do you believe your Sanmatar if presented with the choice would choose hardship for himself to mitigate a contracting economy? Do you believe your Chief would? Frankly, I don’t believe the Sanmatar would do a damned thing that isn’t nakedly in his own self-interest, all the while loudly proclaiming that anyone who could even _conceive_ of him benefiting in any way is clearly a traitor and seditionist. I think the Midular Clan has a history of putting the needs of the Tribe ahead of their own, and the actions of both the current Chief Midular and her predecessor show that to be the case. Moreover, I think _my_ Chief, Tarn Stjörnauga, has long-since shown himself willing to shoulder personal cost and personal discomfort to ensure that our Clan looks after all of its members. > [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Would they know much less care if a few million of the manumitted faithful died for the sake of their lifestyle? It’s not how the corridors of power work. That sounds to me more like the corridors of power in the Empire need _fumigating_. They’re full of rats. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 9:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/254 "2020-04-17T21:46:27Z")
Though many of us strive for better, the corridors of power have more than their share of the ambitious no matter where they reside. ---
**Author:** ![Zakir\_Fereyd](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zakir_fereyd/32/201906_2.png) [@Zakir\_Fereyd](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zakir_Fereyd)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 9:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/255 "2020-04-17T21:47:20Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Except for that whole ‘the effects were temporary and it was well after the initial 24th period’ thing. Sometimes a prompt response is required. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 9:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/256 "2020-04-17T21:48:45Z")
Which is precisely why the intentions of those who occupy them can never be trusted, and why an organization that lies in the name of truth is a danger to those who serve it, more than those who do not. > [@Zakir\_Fereyd](#): > > Sometimes a prompt response is required. A prompt response was required **well after the initial 24h period** , when the formerly-afflicted slaves had already been corraled into their residential ghettoes? **Really**. ---
**Author:** ![Arsia\_Elkin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arsia_elkin/32/388703_2.png) [@Arsia\_Elkin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arsia_Elkin)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 9:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/257 "2020-04-17T21:49:07Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > In addition, Empire loyalists in space self-destructed freightrs filled with roughly 2 million other slaves who were not in any way involved in the situation on the ground. Other loyalists _did_ attempt rescue of those victims, as did non-loyalist forces, but no official condemnation of Fweddit’s actions has ever come. While I am in agreement with the rest of this post, I’m not sure that classifying Fweddit, a group generally recognized as blooders by most Amarr loyalists, as loyalists is a fair representation. The Kingdom, and by extension, the Empire for allowing it, committed horrible atrocities during the Kahah crisis. But I think trying to connect the actions from a nearly universally hated blooder group looking _mostly_ to get a rise out of people to the other _terrible_ actions by the Kingdom detracts from the crimes that the Empire is actually responsible for. ---
**Author:** ![Zakir\_Fereyd](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zakir_fereyd/32/201906_2.png) [@Zakir\_Fereyd](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zakir_Fereyd)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 9:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/258 "2020-04-17T21:52:30Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > A prompt response was required **well after the initial 24h period** , when the formerly-afflicted slaves had already been corraled into their residential ghettoes? **Really**. Who knew the real effects of Deathglow at the time. The Kingdom response was prompt given the information at hand. Slave revolts happen all the time in the Empire, and it is common practice that the longer they are allowed to exist when they begin, the longer they will fester in the long-term. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 9:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/259 "2020-04-17T21:54:26Z")
Perhaps, but considering how omnipresent the RKN, CONCORD, and other ‘authorities’ were in the system at the time… they could have at _least_ included a ‘and that thing Fweddit did was bad, too’ in their statements. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 9:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/260 "2020-04-17T21:55:21Z")
> [@Zakir\_Fereyd](#): > > Who knew the real effects of Deathglow at the time. All the more reason to _not_ conduct an excessive strike that minimized the ability to study the effects of the Blood Raiders’ chemical agent. ---
**Author:** ![Zakir\_Fereyd](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zakir_fereyd/32/201906_2.png) [@Zakir\_Fereyd](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zakir_Fereyd)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 9:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/261 "2020-04-17T21:57:09Z")
Perhaps, but in the end the Faithful were defended and that is as it should be even if it comes at the cost of millions of slaves. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205.md?page=12) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205.md?page=14)