# On the Reclamation of Floseswin **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [March 1, 2020, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205 "2020-03-01T21:16:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 11:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/41 "2020-03-02T11:36:05Z")
With critique that focused and incisive I wouldn’t expect second year students to have improved much. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 11:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/42 "2020-03-02T11:51:59Z")
You get what you pay for. I’m paid to teach at the university. Nobody pays me to critique the IGS. I just do it for free, because I’m a philanthropist at heart. ---
**Author:** ![Pol\_Macsliebh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pol_macsliebh/32/376245_2.png) [@Pol\_Macsliebh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pol_Macsliebh)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 11:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/43 "2020-03-02T11:53:29Z")
No quarter will be given, you will be stabbed, shot and clawed back to the mud you try to run from. This is no clean war, Sarum wont leave. No-one cares about Floseswin or its people least of all the Amarr, The Republic has shown its weak under belly fattened by concord, and by your nature you(The Amarr) will feed on it. The Matari are born into this conflict, you have given us no choice… there is only blood and death to come. Pol Matari Warrior ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/44 "2020-03-02T15:42:02Z")
Matari have started the conflict, they must and WILL face the consequences. Congratulations to the Empire with good work again, and what about you, terrorist… we’ll see you on a battlefield. Let it be known that terrorists are weak warriors, your stabbing works only on weaklings, but when you will hear the barrages of our guns, you will either run or perish. Your slogan reflects the weak targets of your aggression. “Fear the tribes”, you say. Real fighters fear no death. Nobody of us will fear your “tribes”. Terrorists are just amateurs and in real combat die as such. You shall be grateful the Golden Armada hasn’t steamrolled your puny Republic into ashes yet. Is that what you want to achieve? When they will go, we will gladly provide them support to cease your criminal activities once and forever. And let Amarr be Victor. Glory to the State! ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 3:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/45 "2020-03-02T15:46:25Z")
The Amarr Empire has invaded one of our planets. I would hope that even _you_ would appreciate that, or have you stopped caring about Caldari Prime? ---
**Author:** ![Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/morgana_tsukiyo/32/385507_2.png) [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Morgana_Tsukiyo)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 4:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/46 "2020-03-02T16:21:11Z")
While i understand the current status quo of partnership based on ideals, enemyship and relative power, i look very fondly to the shared themes that Caldari and Minmatar have. The collective power above institutional representation, the struggle against foes that took something from them, and still have it… There are plenty more things similar between people rather than things that are different, when one look at it from a different perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/47 "2020-03-02T17:14:50Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > However targeted the sanctions are claimed to be, unless ineffective they contribute to a slowdown or contraction of the imperial economy. Yep. Completely true. > [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Among the first spending programmes to be cut are often those without clear or imminent profit, healthcare and education for slaves, manumission. It is likely but not demonstrable that more will die as a consequence of these sanctions than half a dozen Kahahs, but for billions of those who will endure there is an end to hope. Something far more cruel. And that is the responsibility **only** of those who choose to make that decision, while they themselves suffer no measurable hardship. Or do you _really_ believe that Arrach Sarum ordered the violent enslavement of an entire planet because he, personally, couldn’t make ends meet anymore? And frankly, hearing someone who defends slavery and slavers talk about how cruel it is that people in bondage should _lose hope_… how _amazingly_ hypocritical of you. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 5:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/48 "2020-03-02T17:19:13Z")
> [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](#): > > There are plenty more things similar between people rather than things that are different, when one look at it from a different perspective. Purely from a ‘balance of power’ standpoint, the State and Republic have far more to gain from alliance with one another than they do from clinging to the expansionist powers. A tripod is the stable structure with the fewest legs. A tri-pole cluster would be far more stable than this bi-polar crap is. And there is absolutely _no_ chance that the Amarr and the Gallente will make common cause against us: they are each the other’s greatest threat on ideological, military, and economic levels. ---
**Author:** ![Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/morgana_tsukiyo/32/385507_2.png) [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Morgana_Tsukiyo)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 5:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/49 "2020-03-02T17:37:28Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > And there is absolutely _no_ chance that the Amarr and the Gallente will make common cause against us While from an objective perspective i agree, i wouldn´t discard the possibility of people beign guided by emotions rather than strategy and taking their time to destroy us (they don´t need an alliance to do it) then turning against each other (either to a new equilibrium or an outcome) If one thinks about it, it was the Jove that served as the third pole laying the ground that helped our idependence (with our own efforts and dedication making it concrete, of course). Who knows the Triglavians may be the new scenario enabling a shift of power? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 5:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/50 "2020-03-02T17:46:29Z")
> [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](#): > > (they don´t need an alliance to do it) Yes, they do. The thing you have to keep in mind is that they _are_ expansionist powers. The Amarr more… stridently… so, most of the time, but the Gallente are just as convinced that _their way_ must eventually come to dominate the cluster completely. And neither one can afford to see the other making gains. Neither one can afford to be _weaker_ than the other. So if either side were to see the other making inroads against a Republic/State alliance… they’d be forced to act, just to protect their end of the ‘balance of power’. But how would they go about it? Would they open a second front? That would be disastrous for the Republic and the State, of course… but there’s no way to guarantee that it would result in parity. There’s no way to even begin to provide reassurances that the second entrant would wind up at least within the ‘deterrence’ window of final strength. The safer option, of course, is to oppose their rival directly. To provide aid and support to the independent bloc, with the intention of seeing their foe weakened, and their influence enlarged among their ‘allies’. And neither side can afford to risk the other choosing that path, so _without_ an alliance between the Federation and the Empire… neither side can afford to give the other the opportunity to capitalize on their mistakes by beginning a war. ---
**Author:** ![Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/morgana_tsukiyo/32/385507_2.png) [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Morgana_Tsukiyo)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 5:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/51 "2020-03-02T17:52:32Z")
Again, from a rational perspective, i agree. But people do stupid ■■■■ all the time, all it takes is enough shitty steps for things to go out of control… ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 5:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/52 "2020-03-02T17:55:24Z")
Uriam Kador as an _individual_, yes. The Empire, however, rapidly yanked his leash, even as the Federation responded. If a war were to break out, anyone with the political acumen to either rise to the level of Heir, or get themselves elected to the Senate, would quite easily see the advantages of providing military and economic assistance to the ‘alliance’. This lets them sap their rival’s strength in a proxy war while husbanding their own. It’s kind of a no-brainer. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 6:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/53 "2020-03-02T18:01:15Z")
I suspect it’s quite feasible even for ideologically opposed nations to agree a line on a map. Especially if the nations on both sides of that line have recently extricated themselves from alliances with the intention of collectively constituting a rival. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/54 "2020-03-02T18:04:43Z")
I suspect you’ve never had to negotiate with someone you consider a truly existential threat. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 6:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/55 "2020-03-02T18:09:31Z")
Who else is worth negotiating with? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 7:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/56 "2020-03-02T19:10:03Z")
Anyone from whom you want something that you don’t feel like spending lives to get. Oh, and just to address this bit: > [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > the intention of collectively constituting a rival. This is a gross mischaracterization of the desires of the eastern half of the cluster. The State, and the Republic, both want to decide their own paths without outside interference. The Caldari have so far been more successful in establishing its hold on that which the imperialists took from them than the Minmatar have, but both nations have similar goals, and both would be perfectly content to ignore their western neighbor if that western neighbor would relinquish their claims on the territory and people they have stolen, and leave us the hell alone. That is not ‘a rival’. The Empire and Federation are more than welcome to try converting one another. Just leave us out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Nomistrav](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nomistrav/32/278296_2.png) [@Nomistrav](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nomistrav)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 10:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/57 "2020-03-02T22:30:57Z")
The insanity it takes to argue that economic sanctions in response to wanton massacres and genocides are the greater evil is truly baffling. Yet, more baffling than that is that the use of weapons of mass destruction, mass enslavement, and war is a justifiable response to economic pressures. Allow me to summarize your standpoint so the rest don’t [again] get caught up in the ridiculous strawman you’re attempting: Death is fine as long as it is on behalf of the Empire, moreso when the Empire performs it on its own people. Because that is exactly what you’re arguing at its face. This hackneyed attempt at “lesser evils” centralizing around god damned _self-inflicted poverty_ - as if you truly gave a ■■■■ - is nothing more than a thin veneer of blame casting; blame casting in any direction besides an introspective reflection at where your loyalties lie: With murderers. Nothing more, nothing less. And with that, I’m done here. Nothing more need be said to an advocate of death. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 10:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/58 "2020-03-02T22:57:38Z")
I didn’t offer an opinion on what is the greater evil, only what will have the greater count of bodies. And the basis upon which I view sanctions as warfare by other means. Real insanity would have been to expect positive results when I fictitiously reframe other people’s arguments, use emotive language and canned outrage to bolster my point and just for fun use hyperbolic soundbites to disparage anyone who disagrees with me. ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/59 "2020-03-02T23:15:55Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > I suspect you’ve never had to negotiate with someone you consider a truly existential threat. The Empire and the Federation have had quite a lot of success negotiating with each other, as a matter of fact. There are major cultural differences, yes, but we’ve generally been adult enough to work things out in spite of those. Or at least, equally powerful enough that diplomacy becomes the only viable means of dealing with each other. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 12:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/60 "2020-03-03T00:23:28Z")
I meant Saronu, specifically. CONCORD’s very existence demonstrates that the Federation and Empire recognize the advantages of detente and proxy skirmishing (the militia wars) over actual military conflict between the two or allowing the other any unanswered advantage. > [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > I didn’t offer an opinion on what is the greater evil, only what will have the greater count of bodies. You mean what the _Amarr Empire_ will decide to kill more of what it claims are its own people over, when it doesn’t need to kill _any_ of them. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205.md?page=4)