# On the Reclamation of Floseswin **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [March 1, 2020, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205 "2020-03-01T21:16:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Anabella\_Rella](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anabella_rella/32/515671_2.png) [@Anabella\_Rella](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anabella_Rella)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 8:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/101 "2020-04-03T20:24:33Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > the only question to be answered on Floseswin IV is who must swallow their pride and offer their hand first. Awesome. You go first since, you know, you invaded Floseswin and started kidnapping the _civilian_ population to enslave them and then used WMDs on those you couldn’t kidnap. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 4:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/102 "2020-04-04T04:07:18Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > Everyone knows this in the end; the only question to be answered on Floseswin IV is who must swallow their pride and offer their hand first. On Floseswin, the Amarr to offer peace would say: “Ok, fine, sorry about attacking you, we’re taking that back and going home. Here are the people we took, you can have them back.” The Minmatar, to offer peace on Floseswin, would say: “We’re sorry for fighting back when you attacked our world, please kill and enslave our kin as you please, we will stop resisting.” The situation is far from symmetrical. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 8:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/103 "2020-04-04T08:46:22Z")
Regretfully, it seems you are still unwilling to accept political reality. So it goes. ---
**Author:** ![Tyrel\_Toov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tyrel_toov/32/387953_2.png) [@Tyrel\_Toov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tyrel_Toov)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 8:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/104 "2020-04-04T08:48:03Z")
Sadly, the Amarr religion is warped enough that the indoctrinated would actually view that as a reasonable response to be expected of us. 😒 ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 9:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/105 "2020-04-04T09:11:41Z")
‘Sorry for invading, attempting to assassinate your Empress and prolonging two rebellions’ Drop the hypocrisy, your criminal Republic does not have clean hands. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 2:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/106 "2020-04-04T14:44:11Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > ‘Sorry for invading, attempting to assassinate your Empress and prolonging two rebellions’ Yes, I’m sure those civilians on Floseswin IV were all personally involved in each of those events. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 2:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/107 "2020-04-04T14:45:26Z")
What were the civilians on Mekhios responsible for? ---
**Author:** ![Pol\_Macsliebh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pol_macsliebh/32/376245_2.png) [@Pol\_Macsliebh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pol_Macsliebh)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 2:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/108 "2020-04-04T14:46:53Z")
Besides the few “True” Amarr fighting for the system. The system is mostly defended by pirates being fronted by some irrelevant Amarr wanna be… laughs, couldn’t make it up… oh wait ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 2:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/109 "2020-04-04T14:49:25Z")
About as guilty as those that inhaled insorum on more than a few Amarr worlds. Such is war, Arrendis. If you want such things to end, you come to terms, abide by them and not say things like “the war never ended”. You convinced me I was wrong to assume it had. This is what it looks like when _both_ sides come to that conclusion. I hope you enjoy the reward of winning that argument. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/110 "2020-04-04T14:52:01Z")
Apparently, they were responsible for the Amarr proclivity for false equivalencies. Last time I checked, none of the actual belligerents in the incidents you’ve described were saying ‘No, really, we initiated this offensive against non-combatants so we could ge peace’ the way Aldrith keeps trying to. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 2:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/111 "2020-04-04T14:55:55Z")
War should always be conducted with an eye towards the resultant peace. Otherwise they threaten to never end. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 3:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/112 "2020-04-04T15:16:29Z")
Frequently though I disagree with you, I’m used to you presenting more robust arguments. Mekhios was attacked ostensibly to liberate slaves, Floseswin to gain leverage in a trade dispute; in both cases force was used in the attempt of achieving a goal the aggressor thought merited it, and those harmed were largely bystanders. However great my respect for Lord Newelle, his opinion has no bearing on that equivalence. As for whether it is in the pursuit of peace, His Grace’s motivations are not mine to know. But I believe this action would have been far less likely had it not been for two decades of republic provocations; provocations up until now which had been left unanswered out of the respect in which his successors held His Majesty Emperor Heideran’s aspirations. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/113 "2020-04-04T16:11:45Z")
Oh, please. It’s bad enough Aldrith’s continuing to spout his lies, but now you’re parroting him? Floseswin was not attacked to gain leverage in a trade dispute. Any plans to use it as such only occurred after the fact: > [@](#): > > **House Sarum Orders Mobilization and “Reclaiming” in Reaction to Alleged “Militia Corruption”** > > Sarum Prime, Domain – House Sarum has signalled an escalation of military operations, following [accusations](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136) of “militia corruption” in the Amarr-Minmatar warzone governed by the CONCORD Emergency Militia War Powers Act (CEMWPA) of YC110. In a response to allegations of collusion between Amarr and Minmatar militia groups, the Private Secretary of Royal Heir Arrach Sarum, Lord Qatib Olacar xer Sarum, [relayed orders](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/85/) to “redouble efforts” in Devoid and the Bleak Lands, and specifically designated the Arzad system a “priority objective.” > > More controversially, the House Sarum representative also announced the commissioning of “labour acquisition expeditions” to the “Upper Rebel Provinces” and an order for the “full reclaiming” of Floseswin IV. According to the recent reorganization of territory in the Amarr Empire, the Upper Rebel Provinces refers to the Minmatar Republic’s Metropolis region, though this is believed for practical purposes to be limited to operations in the militia warzone. Minmatar Republic officials have reacted with extreme hostility to the implication that “slave-taking contrary to CONCORD law and treaties between Republic and Empire” will be carried out in the Metropolis warzone systems. Even the public-facing, crafted-the-next-day position of House Sarum was that it was a response to **Militia corruption**. It’s only xer Qosh, caught on the way into an Inner Circle meeting that was plainly a reaction to Sarum’s actions, that starts tying it to the sanctions. So no, it doesn’t matter how many of you decide to lie about it, _this was not about the sanctions_. This was not about ‘peace’. **This was about Arrach Sarum’s face playing host to a very large egg.** ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/114 "2020-04-04T16:28:35Z")
You seem very adamant about this. But Arrendis, are we not all liars? Do we not all hide ulterior motives within couched words and false signals? Would it truly be beyond Lord Arrach Sarum to hide the true intentions of the invasion beneath such a veneer? I mean, surely a man who rose through the ranks of House Sarum from a disgraced position, building with his own merits a highly accomplished military and political career, would be capable of making an informed decision completely regardless of some uppity capsuleers that are irrelevant to the actual workings of the world. Wait. Wait a moment, I seem to have forgotten something. Dear Lord, please forgive me. I am sorry for expecting too much of this pitiful creature. Have mercy upon her, O God, for she knoweth not what she speaks of any longer. Her tongue has tied itself into so many knots she knoweth not which narrative she must call upon to slander your servants with today. I pray she is washed of her formless rage, and that her spitting may make sense once more. Perhaps she might even find you, my Lord. In the end, Amarr shall be vindicated, and I hope to see her kneel in tears before your awesome Truths. One day, one day. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 4:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/115 "2020-04-04T16:50:39Z")
Attempting to distort the facts is easier when you don’t present them to your audience, the response to the allegations was to tell the crusade to do their job, then going on to assign specific objectives. I think it’s far more likely the timing was connected His Grace’s increased prerogative as a Sword-Marshal than a man with a reputation for loyal and diligent service to the Empire suddenly developing a thin skin. More than that though, there is nothing in what happened subsequently that remotely supports your tenuous assertion; it was promptly signalled that alleviation of sanctions would bring the Empire to the table, several weeks were allowed in which the Republic was able to consider that offer, when action was eventually taken it was with political support from the wider Empire, and when it stalled the forces of two Royal Heirs deployed to assist those of Lord Sarum. Could you explain to me which part of this appears to be one man’s fit of pique? ---
**Author:** ![Anabella\_Rella](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anabella_rella/32/515671_2.png) [@Anabella\_Rella](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anabella_Rella)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 5:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/116 "2020-04-04T17:56:41Z")
Spare us your mock pity, slaver. You know of and want only two things; blood and conquest. Whether it’s my people’s or your leadership sending you and yours to their deaths, this is the essence of what one capsuleer rightly called the “slavery death cult” that is your religion. I once believed that there were elements in your people (yourself included) who truly wished for peaceful coexistence. However, your current stance has convinced me otherwise. Of course we fight you in Floseswin, just as we would fight you anywhere in Republic space. While you fight for your god and glory, we fight for the very _survival of our people_. Maybe it is we Matari who should pity you, slaver Newelle. You once had morals and integrity. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 6:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/117 "2020-04-04T18:11:31Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Attempting to distort the facts is easier when you don’t present them to your audience So exactly how many times do I have to link back to the **exact** message before I’m considered to be presenting it to my audience? > [@Militia corruption: Breaking the Deafening Silence on Dirty Deals](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/85): > > > [@Militia corruption: Breaking the Deafening Silence on Dirty Deals](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/54): > > > > > [@Militia corruption: Breaking the Deafening Silence on Dirty Deals](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/44): > > > > > > I warn all Amarr militia pilots that if you try to regain that system or any of the other systems with 24th Imperial Crusade stations we will destroy you. > > > > This deal was problematic enough when it was just looking the other way and allowing stations to be captured by the enemy. > > > > Actively aiding the enemy and aggressively attacking loyal Amarr militia doing their jobs is significantly worse. > > In point of fact, the former would be sedition and treason against the order of Holy Amarr, and the latter rebellion and mutiny in the face of the lawful rule and commands of His Grace the Lord Sarum, Sword Marshal of the Imperial Military Circuit of House Sarum. > > House Sarum will be investigating this matter further and shall consider all options with a view to measuring and implementing an appropriate response. > > In the meanwhile, His Grace has ordered that efforts to take and hold all systems in the Imperial Provinces of Devoid and the Bleak Lands are to be redoubled in the name of the Throne of Holy Amarr. Fully secured control of the Imperial Protectorate of Arzad II is designated a priority objective. > > Additionally, His Grace has seen fit to commission labour acquisition expeditions to each and every system in the Upper Rebel Provinces currently held by the forces of the 24th Imperial Crusade. All labour acquisition specialist groups will be accompanied by troops drawn from the Shining Flame company, the Red and Silver Hand company, and the Order of St. Tetrimon. A priority order has been drawn up for the full reclaiming of the population of Floseswin IV. > > House Sarum looks forward to resolving the matters to be investigated, to the coming reconquest and fortification of Imperial systems, and not least to welcoming new labour servants to the embrace of Holy Amarr. > > Lord Qatib Olacar xer Sarum > > Private Secretary to His Grace the Lord Sarum, > Holder Kathedra of the Table Paramount of House Sarum > [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > I think it’s far more likely the timing was connected His Grace’s increased prerogative as a Sword-Marshal than a man with a reputation for loyal and diligent service to the Empire suddenly developing a thin skin. Who said anything about _suddenly_ developing a thin skin? He got put in charge of the area. Almost right away, it came to light that people in _his_ theater were conspiring with the enemy. And he responds **to that** with the orders for planetary Reclaiming. That’s one man’s pique. Other Heirs waiting long enough for Sarum to bog down and look weak before they step in to _solidify_ that impression of weakness by sending armed assets into _Sarum’s_ Imperial Military Circuit doesn’t exactly _help_ him. However… I have to get ready to be sociable and have fun. So I won’t be responding until I sober up… I dunno, Tuesday, if I’m lucky? ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 6:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/118 "2020-04-04T18:14:39Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > However… I have to get ready to be sociable and have fun. So I won’t be responding until I sober up… I dunno, Tuesday, if I’m lucky? Thank the Lord, our prayers are answered. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 6:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/119 "2020-04-04T18:33:13Z")
**I’M NOT DRUNK YET, YA GIBBON! LEMME GET DRUNK BEFORE YOU GO GETTING SNIPPY WITH IMPUNITY!** Edit: m’drnk nao, get nippy. ---
**Author:** ![Ferra\_Orta](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferra_orta/32/318655_2.png) [@Ferra\_Orta](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferra_Orta)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2020, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205/120 "2020-04-05T13:50:22Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > The Tribes are an existential threat to the Empire > [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > The Matari have been making bolder and bolder provocations for the past twenty years. You have always been good at making the Amarr seem to be the victim, even while your Lords and soldiers invade our planets to take our people and put them in chains, a morally-dismissible pastime of your nation in years gone by. You’re not fooling anyone. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/on-the-reclamation-of-floseswin/223205.md?page=7)