# One Way to Balance High-Security Space šŸ—” **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 24, 2022, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999 "2022-09-24T16:27:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 7:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/349 "2022-09-26T19:29:06Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > šŸ¤£ šŸ¤£ Was it like ganking where you did it once then immediately quit? Mm a couple of times. Beets n Gravy attempted to live out in npc null back in the day so we did that for a bit. Also Iā€™m still a ganker? Again, unsure why you push this false narrative that you must lock yourself into a single playstyle. No wonder youā€™re bored with EVE šŸ˜ƒ > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So you think itā€™s good game design to have a mechanic where success is achieved by making multiple people bored? Yep šŸ˜ƒ Because a boring supply run means you made it safe and sound, cargo delivered, money all around. Like I said, if you want exciting, leak the route šŸ˜ƒ You realize youā€™re taking the appropriate measures to ensure it is boring, so that your stuff gets there safely right? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Doubtful. Thereā€™s no counterplay to ganks so fleets canā€™t do a whole lot but watch. ROFL. Just cause you donā€™t know how to PvP doesnā€™t mean there isnā€™t counters ROFL. Its ok Rroff. I know youā€™re familiar with being rroffed šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 7:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/351 "2022-09-26T19:38:02Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So not enough to get a realistic view of the mechanic overall. LOL, escorting peeps isnā€™t hard bruv. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Youā€™re not though. You did it a few times in some weird attempt to prove a point then quit. Mmm. Its ok bruv. Yennoe, when you try this tack it really does display your ignorance. It isnā€™t a good look šŸ˜ƒ > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > But boring is not good gameplay, you understand that, right? This isnā€™t your career, itā€™s a game, played for entertainment. My guy, you do everything you can to make it ā€œboringā€ because that means it went well and safe šŸ˜ƒ We were never bored during escort runs. Shooting the crap as you warp until you hit the gate and send the scout thru and wait for the word. If not clear, safe up and wait bit while the scouts lure the peeps away, then jump and continue on, leaving one guy behind a bit to see if they gonna pursue or not. Bro. I get it. You donā€™t got friends. You just multi-box all by your lonesome. And that sucks for you šŸ˜ƒ If you donā€™t want boredom, just leak the time and route youā€™re taking bruv šŸ˜ƒ Youā€™ll be plenty not bored šŸ˜ƒ Also HS fleet escorts for freighters are even easier because HS gank defense allows you to fly glass cannon fits for the escorts, which make it even easier to prevent the gank. ---
**Author:** ![Malak\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malak_starfire/32/501915_2.png) [@Malak\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malak_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 7:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/352 "2022-09-26T19:44:38Z")
The freighter run needs to be made (unless you are also suggesting that goods should just magically appear where it needs to go). You can either be alone, and bored, OR you can invite some friends to make the run safer, less boring, and faster. ---
**Author:** ![Omnis\_Decline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnis_decline/32/335677_2.png) [@Omnis\_Decline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnis_Decline)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 7:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/353 "2022-09-26T19:46:13Z")
> [@Malak\_Starfire](#): > > make the run safer, less boring, and faster. As a new player, I have to askā€¦ ā€œfasterā€ because you can take routes youā€™d avoiid if you were soloing the delivery? Or is there something else that makes this go faster? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 7:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/354 "2022-09-26T19:48:25Z")
The reason escorting haulers is boring is because it doesnā€™t pay anything. And the reason why it doesnā€™t pay anything is because weā€™re all immortal. Because weā€™re immortal, we have collectively decided that the only viable way to optimize making money in the game is by doing everything alone, so that we have 100% of the income/profits. In real life, we donā€™t have the benefit of immortality. If we get attacked and shot, we die. So thatā€™s why haulers have historically been escorted by armed guards and compensated well for it (this is true for areas where piracy still exists, such as off the Somali coast). The two choices are to either protect your hauling with armed escorts, or to try to maximize profit by skipping protection but _shutting up when things go wrong_ because it was a conscious choice to do it this way. But since humans (and especially carebears) are stupid and greedy, the whole concept of sleeping in the bed they made flies out the window, so when they choose to skip protection in order to maximize profit, and things inevitably _do_ go wrong, they start whining about it like someoneā€™s splitting open their sides with a kitchen knife. And here we are, facing the reality of players trying to do everything themselves, and throwing tantrums and begging for the game to be changed when they canā€™t. ---
**Author:** ![Malak\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malak_starfire/32/501915_2.png) [@Malak\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malak_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 7:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/355 "2022-09-26T19:48:41Z")
Friendly players (corp mates only in high sec) can web freighters, causing them to align and warp almost instantly. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 7:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/356 "2022-09-26T19:50:46Z")
> [@Malak\_Starfire](#): > > The freighter run needs to be made (unless you are also suggesting that goods should just magically appear where it needs to go). You can either be alone, and bored, OR you can invite some friends to make the run safer, less boring, and faster. He donā€™t got friends bruv. Thatā€™s why heā€™s confused šŸ˜ƒ > [@Omnis\_Decline](#): > > As a new player, I have to askā€¦ ā€œfasterā€ because you can take routes youā€™d avoiid if you were soloing the delivery? Or is there something else that makes this go faster? It goes ā€œfasterā€ cause youā€™re actually hanging out with peeps. Talking crap. Also more eyes on the look out as well. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > And here we are, facing the reality of players trying to do everything themselves, and throwing tantrums and begging for the game to be changed when they canā€™t. Chip truth. ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 7:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/357 "2022-09-26T19:58:33Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Chip truth Someone plays (or played) a bit of Shadowrun back in the dayā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Omnis\_Decline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnis_decline/32/335677_2.png) [@Omnis\_Decline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnis_Decline)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 8:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/359 "2022-09-26T20:00:36Z")
> [@Malak\_Starfire](#): > > (corp mates only in high sec) And for thisā€¦ friendly fire rules? Orā€¦? Also thanks for the answer to my previous question! ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/360 "2022-09-26T20:07:46Z")
> [@QuakeGod](#): > > Someone plays (or played) a bit of Shadowrun back in the dayā€¦ Thank MFing quafe someone finally got the reference. Iā€™ve been dropping chip truth omae all over these forums šŸ˜ƒ Yennoe, if they made a Shadowrun MMO I would def have to quit EVE LOL. Its too bad they are still kinda mixed up with the whole FASA fall out thing and all of that. I also kinda donā€™t like the newish rules and settings and that they separated it from Earthdawn. The newer novels are also kinda meh too. But the classics are awesome šŸ˜ƒ > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Never said it was, I said it was boring. Only when you got no friends šŸ˜ƒ > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > What tack? Stating facts? Show me all your gank victims since you quit then. Hm. Its almost like weā€™re in a sand box game šŸ˜ƒ > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Sure. You did like two runs and are now claiming they were amazing and you think CCP should make it a requirement for a fleet of ships to follow haulers. See DCā€™s post. You donā€™t gotta do anything šŸ˜ƒ Its all choice bruv. And choices got consequences šŸ˜ƒ > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Right, so we can revise that figure to you doing zero escort runs because none of this is how escort runs worked. Dunno bruv, worked pretty well for us šŸ˜ƒ I get it tho. Its hard when you donā€™t got friends right? Also you realize there is no set way to do an escort run right? Like there ainā€™t no set in stone, written down rules. In reality, players have agency and choice. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > šŸ¤£ šŸ¤£ šŸ¤£ šŸ¤£ Imagine trying to justify deliberately boring game mechanics. > > The fact that youā€™ve ramped up all your ā€œbruvsā€ and ā€œyennoesā€ clearly shows youā€™re triggered. Maybe you should calm down a bit. Oh Iā€™m fine broheim šŸ˜ƒ Youā€™ve been rroffed after all šŸ˜ƒ I mean you canā€™t even figure out how to keep a freighter alive in HS with an escort fleet šŸ˜ƒ > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Thatā€™s not how it works though. Itā€™s not suddenly less boring just because multiple people are flying the same route. You can be on comms without hauling. Oof. You really have never had friends have you? I pity you bro ā˜¹ > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > The main reason is that itā€™s a poorly designed time sink. Itā€™s supposed to just take up time and thatā€™s it. Nullsec complained and it got fixed for them so now it takes far less time. I genuinely donā€™t know why people would actively support a mechanic that requires you to do basically nothing for long period of time. Thatā€™s why you get friends bruv šŸ˜ƒ > [@Omnis\_Decline](#): > > And for thisā€¦ friendly fire rules? Orā€¦? > > Also thanks for the answer to my previous question! You can do it anywhere really. ---
**Author:** ![Omnis\_Decline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnis_decline/32/335677_2.png) [@Omnis\_Decline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnis_Decline)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 8:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/361 "2022-09-26T20:10:45Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I genuinely donā€™t know why people would actively support a mechanic that requires you to do basically nothing for long period of time. So youā€™re saying hisec miners shouldnā€™t ask for hisec to be made more safe than it already is? Sounds fair to me. Iā€™ll try to avoid that better than I have done so far. ---
**Author:** ![Omnis\_Decline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnis_decline/32/335677_2.png) [@Omnis\_Decline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnis_Decline)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 8:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/363 "2022-09-26T20:16:20Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Nice strawman you got there. Thanks, I made it with a lot of help from a man with a suspiciously similar name to your own! (sorry, but you set that one up too well for me not to say it) ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 8:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/364 "2022-09-26T20:18:03Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > The reason escorting haulers is boring is because it doesnā€™t pay anything. I donā€™t know if thatā€™s the reason itā€™s boring, but itā€™s one of the reasons that I donā€™t ask other players to help keep my freighters and jump freighters safe; and instead do it myself. Actually, thereā€™s a few reasons I donā€™t turn the safety of hauling contracts into a group activity and instead make it an alt activity: 1. There is little reward for other players, and upping the price to haul to provide them with reward cuts out a lot of contracts (I tried it in the past) 2. 95% of the prep to get from A to B safely is done even before undocking. That doesnā€™t need anyone elseā€™s assistance 3. My assets and collateral on the line = my responsibility and my accountability if I screw up. It wouldnā€™t be fair of me to put my safety in the hands of someone else and if they screw up, then what? 4. Hauling is already inherently safe in highsec and the risk of an issue is low to begin with. Everything else to manage the risk is only about reducing the small risk to almost non-existent 5. In low, null and wormhole space, unless I had the same person/people assisting all the time, they wouldnā€™t have the same level of experience, so itā€™s safer to do it myself with alts 6. Gameplay sessions donā€™t perfectly line up. If Iā€™m logged in, then Iā€™m not held to waiting for someone else and/or they arenā€™t held to wait for me to login. Alts can be logged in at exactly the right times At the end of the day, itā€™s no problem for me that gankers need to work together, or in large fleets of multi-boxed characters. Ganking shouldnā€™t necessarily be a solo activity. There is no inherent right to be able to do everything in the game solo. That same view holds for hauling also. Thereā€™s no inherent right to be able to do that solo. Itā€™s already extremely safe and if I start from a position of high HP so that gankers need group/multiple alt play to gank me, then itā€™s perfectly fine that it takes group/multiple alt play to manage the risk. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 8:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/365 "2022-09-26T20:22:08Z")
> [@Omnis\_Decline](#): > > So youā€™re saying hisec miners shouldnā€™t ask for hisec to be made more safe than it already is? Sounds fair to me. Iā€™ll try to avoid that better than I have done so far. HS is plenty safe if you learn some stuff. As you are a nub, unlike Grampy Kells Rroff, I shall giveth you some counters to le gank and other stuff 1. Learn how to use local to your advantage. It tells you whose in system. Learn who the ganker corps are, set them to bad standing so youā€™ll know immediately if they come in system 2. Learn how to make safe spots in space, even in HS. If you have to go AFK, for full safety you should dock but maybe sometimes canā€™t. Get to a safe before AFKing 3. Anyone who is flashy yellow in HS, is most likely flashy for a reason. If you attack them, be prepared for combat. If they are hovering near the station, itā€™s cause they gonna switch ships and try to wtfpwn you, they most likely got a counter to any ship youā€™re flying in that station 4. When mining, always keep aligned to a safe or station. Do not mine right at the drop in point. Keep a weather eye on local and on d-scan. If you see combat probes on d-scan, bug out immediately. If gankers jump in system, bug out immediately. Also finding a quiet mining system isnā€™t hard 5. Learn how to use F10. If you see that 76 ships died in the past hour in a 0.6 system, you can be darn sure thar be gankers. If you gonna go thru a low pipe and you see like 7 ships blapped in the past hour, might just be FW or might be a gate camp. 6. Learn how to manually fly your ship. It takes time and youā€™re never gonna be perfect, but it is a skill worth practicing. You can reduce DPS by learning how to angle your ship vs the other, which if caught out may give you enough time for CONCORD to come save you. 7. Learn how to fit your ship and do it. HS is a diff ball game vs the others. Once the gankers let the antimatter fly, they are on a fixed clock. Any reduction in DPS gives you an immense advantage in terms of beating that clock. 8. Learn time zones and such and why it is important. Weekends tend to be more active when it comes to ganking. Move your stuff in silence like lasagna on off times. 9. The most concentration of gankers is in Cal space. If you move to Amarr/Min not as much. Gal has a bit more depending. 10. Never stop learning. Learn all the mechanics and game play you can. All knowledge is worth having. You never know when it might save you. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Nice strawman you got there. Look at you, griefing the nubs šŸ˜ƒ > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > That same view holds for hauling also. Thereā€™s no inherent right to be able to do that solo. Itā€™s already extremely safe and if I start from a position of high HP so that gankers need group/multiple alt play to gank me, then itā€™s perfectly fine that it takes group/multiple alt play to manage the risk. Well according to our friend Grampy Kells Rroff, no fleet can ever protect a freighter cause ganking is so OP that heā€™s easily able to avoid it. šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Omnis\_Decline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnis_decline/32/335677_2.png) [@Omnis\_Decline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnis_Decline)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/367 "2022-09-26T20:29:37Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > HS is plenty safe if you learn some stuff. Thanks for all the tips here! A lot of this is advice Iā€™ve managed to pick up from rookie help chat, my NPC corp chat, and the occasional (very rare) face talking in local chat. Thereā€™s a few details I wasnā€™t expecting here too. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Learn how to fit your ship and do it. My current fit for expeditions outside of the starter systems is literally ā€œfree Ibisā€ because that way, if I get lucky, I live (which has been the case so far), and if I donā€™t, I lose nothing and respawn where I was heading anywayā€¦ Iā€™m still learning about how to do fitting properly, but that feels like a skill Iā€™ll need hands-on experience at dying from failures with before itā€™s really settled in. Looking forward to it. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > The most concentration of gankers is in Cal space. If you move to Amarr/Min not as much. Gal has a bit more depending. And this bit was new to me, but doesnā€™t seem surprising. Very much appreciate the advice all-round! ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/368 "2022-09-26T20:33:39Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > The main reason is that itā€™s a poorly designed time sink. Itā€™s supposed to just take up time and thatā€™s it. Nullsec complained and it got fixed for them so now it takes far less time. I genuinely donā€™t know why people would actively support a mechanic that requires you to do basically nothing for long period of time. Thatā€™s what hauling is. Itā€™s the exchange of time to move an object from one place to another. Thereā€™s absolutely no value added to the product itself during this process, with the rare exception of transporting something like wine or rare antiques, which will appreciate in value ever so slightly during the time it takes for them to be transported. This is _normal._ Itā€™s also hardly different from sitting in a high-sec belt and mining Veldspar all day, which is an activity youā€™ve defended on numerous occasions. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > I donā€™t know if thatā€™s the reason itā€™s boring, but itā€™s one of the reasons that I donā€™t ask other players to help keep my freighters and jump freighters safe; and instead do it myself. > ā€¦ > That same view holds for hauling also. Thereā€™s no inherent right to be able to do that solo. Itā€™s already extremely safe and if I start from a position of high HP so that gankers need group/multiple alt play to gank me, then itā€™s perfectly fine that it takes group/multiple alt play to manage the risk. The simple fix (or rather how the game shouldā€™ve functioned from the beginning) would be to have NPCs that _constantly_ seek out player haulers to attack. Had that been the norm, then armed escorts would also be the norm. Instead, we only have the sporadic danger from player ganking, which happens so rarely that players feel entitled to not escort their haulers because the _minimum_ premium theyā€™d have to pay for risk mitigation doesnā€™t line up with the level of risk itself. ---
**Author:** ![Arya\_Yeshe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arya_yeshe/32/397211_2.png) [@Arya\_Yeshe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arya_Yeshe)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 8:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/369 "2022-09-26T20:38:21Z")
This is one of the best posts in the entire forum ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 8:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/370 "2022-09-26T20:43:57Z")
> [@Omnis\_Decline](#): > > Thanks for all the tips here! A lot of this is advice Iā€™ve managed to pick up from rookie help chat, my NPC corp chat, and the occasional (very rare) face talking in local chat. Thereā€™s a few details I wasnā€™t expecting here too. I always talk in local šŸ˜ƒ > [@Omnis\_Decline](#): > > My current fit for expeditions outside of the starter systems is literally ā€œfree Ibisā€ because that way, if I get lucky, I live (which has been the case so far), and if I donā€™t, I lose nothing and respawn where I was heading anywayā€¦ > > Iā€™m still learning about how to do fitting properly, but that feels like a skill Iā€™ll need hands-on experience at dying from failures with before itā€™s really settled in. Looking forward to it. Download pyfa and give it your char. It mimics your skills so you can see what you can fit with your current skills. A lot of fittings out there are meant for when you got most of the fitting skills to 4 or 5, so as a nub it can be hard. EVEfit also helps with ideas. Eventually youā€™ll get the hang of it and understand how the theory works. In reality, you can always experiment. For example in the beginning, Iā€™d go for cap stable fits for missions till you get more experience and feel more comfortable. > [@Omnis\_Decline](#): > > And this bit was new to me, but doesnā€™t seem surprising. Very much appreciate the advice all-round! Most times you get stuff from Amarr, Diodixie and Hek too. Just sometimes the harder stuff to find is at Jita. Iā€™ll add you in game, if you need help just give me a shout if you see me on. What ships are you trying to skill into? Its best to form a coherent skill plan to save time. but you also donā€™t need to jump straight into BSes right away either. Make sure you got the proper support skills. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > The simple fix (or rather how the game shouldā€™ve functioned from the beginning) would be to have NPCs that _constantly_ seek out player haulers to attack. Had that been the norm, then armed escorts would also be the norm. Instead, we only have the sporadic danger from player ganking, which happens so rarely that players feel entitled to not escort their haulers because the _minimum_ premium theyā€™d have to pay for risk mitigation doesnā€™t line up with the level of risk itself. Diamond rats too šŸ˜ƒ > [@Arya\_Yeshe](#): > > This is one of the best posts in the entire forum DC often has good stuff. although Iā€™m sure Grampy Kells Rroff thinks Iā€™m her alt but to be frank, we have very different styles LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 8:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/372 "2022-09-26T20:48:25Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > The most concentration of gankers is in Cal space. If you move to Amarr/Min not as much. Gal has a bit more depending. I liked a statement you made in another thread: - learn to be cloaked without needing a cloak Choice of system to mine in can make that so much easier. It doesnā€™t take much effort to find systems that provide opportunities to have intel on gankers moving towards you well before they ever arrive in local, so you can move, dock, change fitting, etc. well in advance of guns ever being fired. Dotlan is a good tool for that. A couple of examples: **Dead end systems:** ![dead_end_1](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/f/6/9f61076efeb9fbbeee5225b7c3d61d3aa40800c1.png) Mine in Quier an put eyes in Gicodel on the Frarolle gate. Youā€™ll see gankers well before they hit the Quier gate in Frarolle and can respond accordingly. **Protected pipes** (in this case highsec only on one side): ![protected_pipe1](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/5/e/d/5ed1ac27c123f517e5ad6a6b0f680b5e020ee45c.png) Put eyes in Scolluzer on the Sortet gate and you can mine pretty much anywhere up the pipe from there with almost 0 risk of being ganked. You can be pretty much hidden in highsec from gankers while doing what you want. But if you choose to mine a couple of jumps from Jita, then expect to have to manage the potential consequences of that. Most of highsec has 0 loss in any hour of play; and many systems have no loss for hours and even days on end (eg. [looking at a system like Chesiette](https://zkillboard.com/system/30005327/) for example, the last player involved kill we can see was back in July, so even if there is a kill or 2 missing from that, it still isnā€™t a large risk to mine/rat there). Back in November (and apology for [linking to one of my own posts](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-miner-ganking/338672/34). I donā€™t have updated data right now), loss from any source (pvp or pve) was pretty low. It hasnā€™t changed. Thereā€™s 1192 highsec systems and only a handful of them have any real risk of regular ganking. Highsec doesnā€™t need to be balance, people just need to make balanced choices. Just pick a safe system and you can mine away pretty much unimpeded forever. ---
**Author:** ![Omnis\_Decline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnis_decline/32/335677_2.png) [@Omnis\_Decline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnis_Decline)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 8:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/373 "2022-09-26T20:50:28Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > What ships are you trying to skill into? Its best to form a coherent skill plan to save time. but you also donā€™t need to jump straight into BSes right away either. Make sure you got the proper support skills. Iā€™ve been mostly focusing on industry skills, with a side of ā€œmake everything betterā€ skills (Magic 14) and I got some frigate skills lined up with a plan to work my way to at least destroyer (and probably larger but no rush) and stick to PvE missions and mining for the near future. Iā€™ll work out a more solid long-term plan when Iā€™m more than a week old. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999.md?page=16) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999.md?page=18)