# One Way to Balance High-Security Space šŸ—” **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 24, 2022, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999 "2022-09-24T16:27:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Arya\_Yeshe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arya_yeshe/32/397211_2.png) [@Arya\_Yeshe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arya_Yeshe)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 8:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/374 "2022-09-26T20:50:41Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > DC often has good stuff. although Iā€™m sure Grampy Kells Rroff thinks Iā€™m her alt but to be frank, we have very different styles LOL. Kel is justā€¦ special. DC is another person, everybody knows who, but Kel thinks that then? Weirdā€¦ why? ---
**Author:** ![Omnis\_Decline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnis_decline/32/335677_2.png) [@Omnis\_Decline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnis_Decline)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 8:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/375 "2022-09-26T20:52:02Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yep, but this is a game and it seems that mechanics designed specifically to take up time while providing no entertainment are bad designs. I recommend typing the following into a search engine of your choice: ā€œEuro Truck Simulatorā€ ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 8:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/377 "2022-09-26T20:57:14Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > You can be pretty much hidden in highsec from gankers while doing what you want. But if you choose to mine a couple of jumps from Jita, then expect to have to manage the potential consequences of that. Yep. And there are ship fits that allow you to cloak without cloaking šŸ˜ƒ When I came back, I chose a system with care and mined for days without even seeing another player LOL. And I was super close to Jita. > [@Omnis\_Decline](#): > > Iā€™ve been mostly focusing on industry skills, with a side of ā€œmake everything betterā€ skills (Magic 14) and I got some frigate skills lined up with a plan to work my way to at least destroyer (and probably larger but no rush) and stick to PvE missions and mining for the near future. Iā€™ll work out a more solid long-term plan when Iā€™m more than a week old. Mm indy can be tough to break into unless youā€™re just doing it for yourself like making t1 ammo and such. Mining can be easy as long as you pick the right system. As for missions, Iā€™d pick a singular race of ships for now to skill into. TBH, easy mode for missions is a Cal or Gal ship. Training Cal/Gal isnā€™t hard cause lots of overlap. Cal is probably the easiest for fire and forget honestly. Gal can be too, but gotta manage drone aggro a lot more. If you go cal, just go for missiles first. Can run 1s in a kessie, 2s in a corax/caracal, 3s in a drake and 4s in a raven to start. For mining, venture is good for starting out. Try to find a system with a citadel you can compress at too. Ventures actually make good little ore haulers too. Make one separate for that tho. > [@Arya\_Yeshe](#): > > Kel is justā€¦ special. > DC is another person, everybody knows who, but Kel thinks that then? Weirdā€¦ why? Iā€™m sure he thinks weā€™re all multiple alts of one person. However, its clear we all have very different styles and thought processes LOL. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Alternatively, just yield tank. Always sucessful plus it has the added benefit of triggering people who donā€™t get math. Every scout is a wasted account that could be mining. Amazing that you complain that the game should be about entertainment, but then want everyone to be AFK šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 8:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/378 "2022-09-26T20:58:42Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Alternatively, just yield tank. Yep I agree. Maximise yield is the best way to do something so boring as mining. Max yield and a quiet system is the best combination. Then you are pretty much guaranteed to cover costs. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/379 "2022-09-26T21:01:42Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Diamond rats too šŸ˜ƒ Diamond rats were a good start, but they only appear in certain places, and arenā€™t proactive enough to present a true threat to players. If NPCs presented genuine combat threats to players _everywhere_ and not just places where players selectively choose to run PvE content, a lot of the gameā€™s historical ideological problems wouldnā€™t have existed. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > The difference with mining is that plenty of people do enjoy it. There is no _proven_ difference. Just because you donā€™t personally enjoy hauling, doesnā€™t mean that there arenā€™t many other players who _do._ ---
**Author:** ![Arya\_Yeshe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arya_yeshe/32/397211_2.png) [@Arya\_Yeshe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arya_Yeshe)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 9:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/380 "2022-09-26T21:07:40Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Iā€™m sure he thinks weā€™re all multiple alts of one person. However, its clear we all have very different styles and thought processes LOL. Many people through the years implied Iā€™m one of Aikoā€™s alts, including in the wormhole corp I play in with the other alts, many times when I logged on people said in corp ā€œPraise Aiko!ā€ as a joke. They say I talk just like her when ingame, I disagere with them in that, I just have a few strong opinions about some things. Almost all those people/friends are not forum users, I think the carebear paranoia about everybody being an Aikoā€™s alt is mass hysteria. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 9:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/382 "2022-09-26T21:15:19Z")
> [@Arya\_Yeshe](#): > > Almost all those people/friends are not forum users, I think the carebear paranoia about everybody being an Aikoā€™s alt is mass hysteria. Very much true. Also considering I only got 1 account, it just me šŸ˜ƒ > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yield tanking doesnā€™t really work AFK. Oh? So you donā€™t even yield tank then? Or maybe you donā€™t understand what yield tanking is? Cause remember, you said you mine AFK šŸ˜ƒ > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You only have to look at the relative sizes of the groups, hauling is pretty small and tight knit in comparison to mining, and even then at lot of it tends to be JF haulers jumping to destinations. So not only are out to kill the ganking playstyle, the AG playstyle but also the hauling playstyle as well? Wild šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 9:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/384 "2022-09-26T21:21:11Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You only have to look at the relative sizes of the groups, hauling is pretty small and tight knit in comparison to mining, and even then at lot of it tends to be JF haulers jumping to destinations. What exists fills the demand that is available. That has absolutely nothing to do with enjoyment. If there was additional capacity for hauling to be a viable profession, there could very well be additional players who would choose it over other activities. But players have bills to pay, which for many takes precedence over actually enjoying the game. If you donā€™t believe me, go interview some miners (as I have) and find out how many of them mine primarily because of enjoyment and not because they want an easy way to make ISK. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/385 "2022-09-26T21:29:09Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I do both, depends on what else is going on. It doesnā€™t sound like you got much going on šŸ˜ƒ > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Iā€™m up for overhauling any old, stale mechanics that offer little in the way of challenges and arenā€™t entertaining. Mining included. I think the big heavy hitters are ganking, PI and hauling though. Of the three I think hauling is the trickiest to tackle as the core reason for hauling to exist is needed, it just doesnā€™t play well. Itā€™s a time sink that feels like a time sink which is generally bad design. Its your _opinion_ that its stale and old šŸ˜ƒ > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > If you donā€™t believe me, go interview some miners (as I have) and find out how many of them mine primarily because of enjoyment and not because they want an easy way to make ISK. That would involve him playing the game or actually talking to folks. Something I donā€™t think he does much šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 9:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/387 "2022-09-26T21:45:17Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yep, thatā€™s generally how people holding views works. Mmm cept youā€™re trying to present it as fact bruv šŸ˜ƒ > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Irony levels at maximum. For you? Of course Grampy Kells Rroff šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Omnis\_Decline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnis_decline/32/335677_2.png) [@Omnis\_Decline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnis_Decline)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 10:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/388 "2022-09-26T22:15:47Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Mm indy can be tough to break into unless youā€™re just doing it for yourself like making t1 ammo and such. Yeah, especially as an alpha. Iā€™m undecided on whether Iā€™ll run omega, and if I do, undecided if itā€™ll become a long-term thing or not. Weā€™ll see when we get there, I guessā€¦ > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > As for missions, Iā€™d pick a singular race of ships for now to skill into. TBH, easy mode for missions is a Cal or Gal ship. Training Cal/Gal isnā€™t hard cause lots of overlap. My plan on this point is Caldari, mostly because I like the ship designs. That saidā€¦ > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > If you go cal, just go for missiles first. Can run 1s in a kessie, 2s in a corax/caracal, 3s in a drake and 4s in a raven to start. Iā€™m currently looking at experimenting with a Merlin fitted with blasters (I got lucky with a new friend giving me one thatā€™s already fitted with equipment Iā€™m able to use). They seem more fun to me. Iā€™m aware itā€™s probably not ideal for PvP, at least for a beginner, and I wonā€™t be surprised if it gets me killed running missions too. I want to experiment at least a little with other weapon types occasionally, and I have trained the baseline missile skills already. Also the magic schoolbus gave me a Kestrel fitted with rockets, so Iā€™m considering picking the first level of those skills up at some stage to give them a shot too. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 10:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/389 "2022-09-26T22:16:45Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So you think itā€™s good game design to have a mechanic where success is achieved by making multiple people bored? Sure, in RL when doing a LogPak, and teh trip out and the trip back was uneventful and you and the guys got back to base, got some hot chow, went the gym, then settled down to a movie, or xbox, or a good bookā€¦Boring is beautiful. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 10:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/390 "2022-09-26T22:41:42Z")
> [@Omnis\_Decline](#): > > Iā€™m currently looking at experimenting with a Merlin fitted with blasters (I got lucky with a new friend giving me one thatā€™s already fitted with equipment Iā€™m able to use). They seem more fun to me. Iā€™m aware itā€™s probably not ideal for PvP, at least for a beginner, and I wonā€™t be surprised if it gets me killed running missions too. I want to experiment at least a little with other weapon types occasionally, and I have trained the baseline missile skills already. Also the magic schoolbus gave me a Kestrel fitted with rockets, so Iā€™m considering picking the first level of those skills up at some stage to give them a shot too. Ahh nice. Oh no a merlin is good too. Yea cal can use both blaster/rails or missiles depending on the hull. Thatā€™s why its also easy to cross train into Gal, just need to pick up drone skills too. > [@Omnis\_Decline](#): > > My plan on this point is Caldari, mostly because I like the ship designs. That saidā€¦ Cal used to be the ugliest ships but theyā€™ve gotten a bit better haha. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 10:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/391 "2022-09-26T22:43:34Z")
> [@Arya\_Yeshe](#): > > So if the player spent 30 milions in an insurance, then the bounty would be 10 milions split between the attackers. This is an idea ripe for exploitation. Get a bounty on yourself, insure the ship and then get popped by an alt, payment of bounty and insurance incoming. m ---
**Author:** ![Omnis\_Decline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnis_decline/32/335677_2.png) [@Omnis\_Decline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnis_Decline)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 10:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/392 "2022-09-26T22:57:25Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Cal used to be the ugliest ships but theyā€™ve gotten a bit better haha. Iā€™ve always liked _some_ of the Caldari designs more than most others in the game, even when most looked pretty bad. Iā€™ve had friends playing the game a lot over the years, so I know how the ships used to look tooā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 10:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/393 "2022-09-26T22:58:28Z")
Any form of player bounty system would be abused and exploited, no matter what they come up withā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Arya\_Yeshe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arya_yeshe/32/397211_2.png) [@Arya\_Yeshe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arya_Yeshe)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 11:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/394 "2022-09-26T23:03:42Z")
Mathematically is a no, even if it happened for a few days due to very low market prices. Spend 110 mil on a Basiliskā€¦ spend 12 in insurance, spent 122 until now. Get 40 in insurance and 13 in bounty, total of 53ā€¦ Thatā€™s a loss of 69 milionsā€¦ plus all the ships that will have to be destroyed for consuming those 13 milions in bounties. The loss will easily be over 100 mil if you want to scam the insurance system, this value canā€™t go up. How can this be profitable? It is literally a division of a division of a division, the value could be divided a fourth time if multiple pilots attack the bounty target. The only ā€œdangerā€ is fixing the market, this would consume all excess of Kestrels, Merlins, etc, in the end of the day it would be good for the economy and any possiblity of scam would disapear. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 11:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/395 "2022-09-26T23:08:14Z")
> [@Omnis\_Decline](#): > > Iā€™ve always liked _some_ of the Caldari designs more than most others in the game, even when most looked pretty bad. Iā€™ve had friends playing the game a lot over the years, so I know how the ships used to look tooā€¦ A blaster moa is actually a pretty sexy ship. ---
**Author:** ![Codename\_Razorback](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/codename_razorback/32/486427_2.png) [@Codename\_Razorback](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Codename_Razorback)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 12:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/396 "2022-09-27T00:12:12Z")
> [@Arya\_Yeshe](#): > > you think that being a player is the simple act of owning somethingā€¦ Wow, you know so much about me. I bought my ships with ISK that I earned in-game. That was way before you could buy PLEX with cash and sell it on the market. Also, back in '03 we had to figure out how to do things. There was no rookie guide to help us and everything was manual. Fitting multiple ships at once wasnā€™t even dreamed about. You literally could only warp to gates at 15km (without BMā€™s). My point is, Iā€™ve learned a lot about the game. What I buy I own within the game. I just donā€™t feel the need to take what other people have earned and call it ā€œelite PvPā€ in HS. Gankers are a joke, a sad joke. ---
**Author:** ![Codename\_Razorback](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/codename_razorback/32/486427_2.png) [@Codename\_Razorback](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Codename_Razorback)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 12:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/397 "2022-09-27T00:17:14Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > we had mandatory escort ops My first corpā€™s ā€œbig thingā€ was mandatory Ice Mining Fleets once a week. If people were online and ratting theyā€™d change the corp tax to 100% during the OP. Good times. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999.md?page=17) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999.md?page=19)