# One Way to Balance High-Security Space šŸ—” **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 24, 2022, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999 "2022-09-24T16:27:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![Qia\_Kare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qia_kare/32/279281_2.png) [@Qia\_Kare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qia_Kare)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 10:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/944 "2022-10-02T22:51:34Z")
You can say cynical. I only take offense to someone saying something with the intention of being mean. If youā€™re just calling a spade a spade because thatā€™s the way you see it, then I donā€™t take exception to that. I do mean ā€˜novelā€™ as in ā€˜unique in the MMO gaming spaceā€™. ---
**Author:** ![Omnis\_Decline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnis_decline/32/335677_2.png) [@Omnis\_Decline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnis_Decline)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 10:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/945 "2022-10-02T22:53:50Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > > [@Arya\_Yeshe](#): > > > > Thereā€™s games that if you are farming resources a recaptcha will pop up, if you fail then you canā€™t use that skill for many hours. > > That would really suck tbh. The game has plenty of activities (mining first among them) that are not end-game content, but necessary chores along the way. All of them are boring. > > CCP doesnā€™t have an issue with AFK play of the game and people should be able to make that choice without having to worry about verifying to the client that they are ATK. > > They just need to also accept that there can be consequences for not being at the keyboard and if they lose a ship, donā€™t whine about it. You (both) seem to be missing that this game already has its anti-AFK mechanic. Gankers are how the game encourages players to be at their keyboard. The ā€œrecaptchaā€ is knowing how and when to run. And the penalty for failing is the cost of a new ship, and the loss of whatever time youā€™d spent mining since you last docked up. I think thatā€™s a better system than the normal one, personally. But Iā€™m a hisec miner who doesnā€™t pay his permits, what would I know? On which topicā€¦ Current death count: 1. Tutorial scripted death. 2. Died to NPC pirates in lowsec becasee I was doing a magical mystery tour in a corvette. 3. Died to players because my magical mystery tour found its way into nullsec and a couple of players thought I was a diversion in preparation for another corp attacking their territory. Iā€™ve had a few times Iā€™ve had to interrupt my short lowsec mining trips to go home before my hold was full, but that was worth it to get half a load of ore back to safety and make the sale. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 10:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/946 "2022-10-02T22:57:34Z")
> [@Count\_Vlad\_Tepes1](#): > > > [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](#): > > > > Any interaction with another player is pvp. > > Wrong! > > verĀ·sus > > /Ėˆvərsəs,Ėˆvərsəz/ > > _preposition_ > > 1. against (especially in sports and legal use). > > ā€œPenn versus Princetonā€ > > - as opposed to; in contrast to. Are you a real Count? Am I speaking to minor Royalty here?! I have addressed this issue of defining PvP, in this very thread, Count. Perhaps it slipped your Royal mind. For the record then: PvP stands for ā€˜Player versus Playerā€™, where ā€˜versusā€™ is ā€˜From Middle English versus, borrowed from Latin versus (ā€œfacingā€), past participle of vertere (ā€œto turn, change, overthrow, destroyā€).ā€™ usually translated as ā€˜againstā€™. Thus, ā€˜PvPā€™ defines the relationship between contending players. It says nothing about the nature of the activity in which they are engaged. You are welcome to disagree, Count, but I would appreciate a coherent, lucid rebuttal far more than a tired reiteration of your position, accompanied by a stuck-out-tongue; that would hardly be in keeping with your elevated status. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 11:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/947 "2022-10-02T23:03:28Z")
> [@Omnis\_Decline](#): > > You (both) seem to be missing that this game already has its anti-AFK mechanic. Really? My alt is AFK right now. Canā€™t wait for this anti-AFK mechanic to take care of that. But to quote: > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > They just need to also accept that there can be consequences for not being at the keyboard and if they lose a ship, donā€™t whine about it. ---
**Author:** ![Omnis\_Decline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnis_decline/32/335677_2.png) [@Omnis\_Decline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnis_Decline)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 11:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/948 "2022-10-02T23:05:30Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > But to quote: > > > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > > > They just need to also accept that there can be consequences for not being at the keyboard and if they lose a ship, donā€™t whine about it. Yes, but youā€™re implying that this isnā€™t an anti-AFKing mechanic. Which it is. Which was the point I was making in saying that itā€™s the gameā€™s anti-AFKing mechanic. Iā€™m a little surprised you missed that. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 11:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/950 "2022-10-02T23:08:43Z")
> [@Count\_Vlad\_Tepes1](#): > > Why? Are you afraid AG might gain some traction? Where did you get that from? ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 11:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/951 "2022-10-02T23:10:14Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > organised wars as nullsec groups often do ā€¦ wha ? ā€œoh letā€™s have a warā€ ? You really are clueless how nullsec works and especially doesnā€™t work. Hereā€™s a ā€œfunnyā€ thing to think about: The last major war, WWB2, was anything but consensual. In fact it was an effort to kick one of the largest groups of players out of the game. Yes, OUT of the game. That was literally the call that was made by the instigator. If the EULA were appliedā€¦ what would the conclusion be ? Would it fall under griefing ? Or does that only apply to individuals ? Or only the ones you happen to like ? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > like how people in highsec doing things can be blapped by any random veteran bored of botting in nullsec. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > The CSM has been increasingly ineffective year-on-year and has always pretty much been dominated by nullsec voices. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Heā€™ll just be replaced by another one. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > because every single change seems to be based around how to feed nullsec Lay off the hatred, man. Is there any game aspect or player group you do not hate ? Also, what about wormholers ? It isnā€™t often they manage to get a w-space player elected. This year they did, because they overcame their internal differences. Why does hisec not do the same ? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I just personally donā€™t think that consensual PvP makes space inherently unsafe This doesnā€™t say what you actually are trying to say ā€¦ just saying ā€¦ And New Eden is meant to be unsafe. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > > > Ganking has been nerfed into the ground. > > Not even a little bit true. Itā€™s still ludicrously easy for one person to rack up thousands of kills. Hmmm, more tokens of being clueless or manipulative. Letā€™s see: - input broadcasting - no longer insurance payouts for gankers in hisec - low slots for freighters (doubling/tripling their ehp) - extra mid slots for exhumers, doubling their ehp - bumping nerf If anything, this is proof that catering to the weak, lazy and manipulative never reaches an endpoint. As far as I can tell, youā€™re just making populist remarks, without grounds, without so much as a genuine thought. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 11:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/953 "2022-10-02T23:17:11Z")
> [@Omnis\_Decline](#): > > Yes, but youā€™re implying that this isnā€™t an anti-AFKing mechanic. Itā€™s not a mechanic at all. Itā€™s a playstyle that uses various mechanics. So show me the specific anti-AFK mechanic that stops my alt from being AFK right now? There isnā€™t one and thatā€™s the way it should stay. Let players sort it out and not put captchas (or any other mechanic) that forces a player to be at the keyboard. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 11:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/955 "2022-10-02T23:24:57Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > I would like to know where some players get the impression that HS is safe? All the adds that I see say how dangerous the game is. They create the perception when they need to. Iā€™ve mentioned before that I play lots of PvP survival games. I have countless times experienced killing a player, only for them to start bitching in chat about how I ā€œgriefedā€ them and that they were ā€œbeing peacefulā€ etc. etc. Then they go on the forums and ask for PvP toggles. Once again, _ **PvP survival games.** _ People download games without reading anything about them, even just the basic two-sentence description in the upper-right of the Steam window. Then they throw hissy-fits and tantrums when the games end up being something completely unexpected. Iā€™m just chalking it up to human nature at this point. That, and understanding what being ā€œof average intelligenceā€ entails, and remembering that roughly half of all people are _below_ that level. Observe some gank victims in their natural environment (there are many avenues for doing so, like the WWIG channel, TiS Discord, etc). The grand majority of those people arenā€™t people that I would say are of average intelligence or higher. You can tell by the way they type, what they say, and their general demeanor. I would bet the entire pot that being an angry gank victim and being stupid are very much positively correlated. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I just personally donā€™t think that consensual PvP makes space inherently unsafe But when I said that exact same thing, you disagreed? šŸ¤” ---
**Author:** ![Omnis\_Decline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnis_decline/32/335677_2.png) [@Omnis\_Decline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnis_Decline)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 11:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/956 "2022-10-02T23:26:17Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > > [@Omnis\_Decline](#): > > > > Yes, but youā€™re implying that this isnā€™t an anti-AFKing mechanic. > > Itā€™s not a mechanic at all. Itā€™s a playstyle that uses various mechanics. > > So show me the specific anti-AFK mechanic that stops my alt from being AFK right now? > > There isnā€™t one and thatā€™s the way it should stay. Let players sort it out and not put captchas (or any other mechanic) that forces a player to be at the keyboard. This was me using ā€œmechanicā€ in a more broad sense than you, sorry for the misunderstanding. o7 > [@Qia\_Kare](#): > > I think Scipio was mainly making a case for keeping capchas out of Eve, and as an aside, remarked that if the current ā€˜anti AFKā€™ system causes ship loss, then thems the breaks and the pilot should quietly take their lumps. And thank you for this explanation of the point being made as well. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 11:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/957 "2022-10-02T23:40:04Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > No such thing. The CSM has been increasingly ineffective year-on-year and has always pretty much been dominated by nullsec voices. If ccp doesnt wanna listen to the csm its not the csms fault. Their ineffectiveness stems from ccp listening but not implementing and doing things their way ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 11:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/961 "2022-10-02T23:57:10Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Indeed, like how people in highsec doing things can be blapped by any random veteran bored of botting in nullsec. Thatā€™s literally against what heā€™s saying šŸ˜ƒ And those peeps being blapped are veterans too šŸ˜ƒ > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Not even a little bit true. Itā€™s still ludicrously easy for one person to rack up thousands of kills. Only because other people are bad at the game šŸ˜ƒ > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > No such thing. The CSM has been increasingly ineffective year-on-year and has always pretty much been dominated by nullsec voices. Oh? Then you run šŸ˜ƒ > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Heā€™ll just be replaced by another one. The voting system doesnā€™t really work when you have organised groups instructing the votes for tens of thousands of accounts, many of which only exist to vote then go back to alpha. A one vote per actual person system would go a long way to fixing some of the issues. LOL > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Sure, because every single change seems to be based around how to feed nullsec. Between allowing people to sell skillpoints and allowing nullsec groups to harvest broker fees from people buying and selling plex and SP, theyā€™ve effectively switched on a money printer for null. 100% of fees for Pilotā€™s Services items should be a sink, and null sec groups should not be skimming of the top. Someone seems salty šŸ˜ƒ > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > At the expense of thousands of other players playstyles. Just like wardeccers were ā€œplaying the game the way they want to play the gameā€ while people trying to get corps up and running were punished for doing so. Thatā€™s the game they signed on to play šŸ˜ƒ > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I just personally donā€™t think that consensual PvP makes space inherently unsafe All PvP is consensual šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 12:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/964 "2022-10-03T00:05:23Z")
> [@Count\_Vlad\_Tepes1](#): > > People on the same team donā€™t _oppose_ each other. People on the same team arenā€™t usually contending among themselves (there are exceptions), thus the term ā€˜PvPā€™ would normally be inappropriately applied to such relationships. The explanation I gave, above, arose because of repeated assertions that ā€˜ganking isnā€™t PvPā€™. It clearly is so - as is any contentious activity in a video game. I will admit that I am in the wrong if you show me that I have erred in my application of the definition. For example, I was not writing about people being ā€˜on the same teamā€™. If you were doing so, then I unreservedly apologise for my mistake. But as I have indicated, above, it is quite possible for members of a team to oppose one another in, for example, achieving a top score or some other coveted thing. It occasionally leads to fisticuffs, Iā€™ve heard. That would be PvP. Now, I must shut up shop for the night! ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 1:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/977 "2022-10-03T01:17:35Z")
> [@Count\_Vlad\_Tepes1](#): > > I donā€™t see Sirppala listed [HERE](https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203209712-Rookie-Griefing). Nah. Its the stuff thatā€™s been pushed by you lot on the back of Fanfest: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/d/9/3d941533cb28f924eecd1fed28bd0c25a783c193.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 1:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/978 "2022-10-03T01:17:53Z")
> [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > players will continue to post about it, over and over and over again You mean that tiny, but very vocal minority who still donā€™t have a clue about the nature of the game, become poisonous when they get resistance and throw more tantrums when theyā€™re offered advice while all they want is to reshape the game to their own little perception ? The same little crowd that uses any means, any forum and talkshows ? The ā€œover and over againā€, that is a real poison on these forums. > [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > So just because high sec has no representation in CSM you all just act completely disrespectfully to comments Do you see the ā€œnerf gankingā€ crowd being respectful towards e.g. the nullsec players ? Or, bob forbid, gankers ? It looks like having a CSM rep has nothing to do with ā€œrespectā€. And it sure doesnā€™t look like you want a dialogue either. If, on the other hand, the ā€œnerf ganking crowdā€ would be open to help from people who know how to play the game and avoid most of the pitfalls, they would gain a lot more respect. So far they have lost all, without improvement in sight. You donā€™t want respect, you want your way. Sorry, the game was taken for what it is two decades ago, and it has never been ā€œnew player friendlyā€ nor ā€œsafeā€. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 2:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/983 "2022-10-03T02:59:01Z")
> [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > Sure, nuke the thread and someone will post another thread just like it. Until this mess is addressed, players will continue to post about it, over and over and over again. So just because high sec has no representation in CSM you all just act completely disrespectfully to comments. You might want to make sure high sec has representation. My guy, ganking isnā€™t hard to avoid. Just learn to EVE šŸ˜ƒ > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Is every other highsec focused player impotent in terms of their abilility to do anything? Pretty much šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Most\_Moliko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/most_moliko/32/378698_2.png) [@Most\_Moliko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Most_Moliko)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 4:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/987 "2022-10-03T04:10:46Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > > [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > > > You know very well high sec canā€™t do that > > Mike Azariah was able to gain enough votes for years on the back of being a highsec carebear (noting that Mike was one of the most effective community reps on the CSM in his time and still CCP didnā€™t deliver the carebear paradise some of you are looking for). > > Is every other highsec focused player impotent in terms of their abilility to do anything? You are engaging in a very manipulative process. Just because we want the exploiting to stop in high sec does not mean we want to stop ganking in high sec. It should be dangerous but it should not be stupidly easy for the ganker, which it is right now. The claims of gankers in this forum are flat out lies. It is not nerfed it is easy to gank it is easy to draw concord away from the battle. you people get 100% guaranteed kills. there are few ways to avoid it and you are engaging in a propaganda battle in these forums to cloak the fact you have exploited the game to the point that there is NO RISK FOR THE ATTACKER NOW! Stop with the lies. ---
**Author:** ![Most\_Moliko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/most_moliko/32/378698_2.png) [@Most\_Moliko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Most_Moliko)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 4:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/991 "2022-10-03T04:14:31Z")
> [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](#): > > > [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > > > it is easy to draw concord away from the battle > > Why not use that to your advantage? If gankers can pull CONCORD, miners can too. I am not here to talk about these kinds of solutions. i am here to expose the gankers as liars and that they talk about risk for everyone in the game. BUT THERE IS NO RISK FOR GANKERS. A bunch of catalysts blowing up after destroying a freighter is hardly risk. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 4:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1010 "2022-10-03T04:44:53Z")
I donā€™t know why, but Iā€™m starting to think there may be no risk for the gankers. On the flip side, thereā€™s no risk for me hauling goods either, so seems pretty balanced. ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Buldath](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_buldath/32/381437_2.png) [@ISD\_Buldath](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Buldath)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 4:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1011 "2022-10-03T04:45:10Z")
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