# One Way to Balance High-Security Space šŸ—” **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 24, 2022, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999 "2022-09-24T16:27:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 7:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1034 "2022-10-03T07:27:17Z")
> [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > ganking risk free every day. How is ganking Risk Free? Are you able to answer this or not? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 7:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1035 "2022-10-03T07:27:54Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Actually thats a fair point, its not a risk at all > > It a guarunteed loss. The solution to risk-free ganking seems pretty simple to me, then. Just take away the _guarantee_ of ship loss for gankers. That way, every time gankers gank, they will be risking their ships to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Most\_Moliko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/most_moliko/32/378698_2.png) [@Most\_Moliko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Most_Moliko)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 7:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1036 "2022-10-03T07:28:08Z")
To anyone who agrees with me, the messaging must be the same and clear in every single post we make. Ganking is risk free in EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 7:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1037 "2022-10-03T07:28:54Z")
> [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > Ganking is risk free in EVE. How so? Please answer my question or start flagging your posts as spam. ---
**Author:** ![Most\_Moliko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/most_moliko/32/378698_2.png) [@Most\_Moliko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Most_Moliko)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 7:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1038 "2022-10-03T07:33:44Z")
CCP bott just does not like posts that expose players. ---
**Author:** ![Most\_Moliko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/most_moliko/32/378698_2.png) [@Most\_Moliko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Most_Moliko)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 7:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1040 "2022-10-03T07:37:12Z")
how many characters do you post with? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 7:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1041 "2022-10-03T07:38:15Z")
And you have yet to identify why thats a problem Mining or hauling without ganking is also Risk Free So why is that ok? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 7:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1042 "2022-10-03T07:38:25Z")
Iā€™ve lost count, but itā€™s gotta be more than 30 at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 7:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1043 "2022-10-03T07:38:52Z")
As many as it takes for you to answer a simple question ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 7:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1044 "2022-10-03T07:38:57Z")
> [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > The insincerity of gankers arguing that there is risk when there is clearly no risk, is an absolute farce. Just because a bunch of cheap catalysts blow up in the battle. The cost to the ganker is minimal while the cost to the ganked person is overwhelmingly higher. > > Arguing this absurdity of comparisons really makes me sick, but the zkillboard keeps track of bā€™s killed vs the bā€™s lost so stop with the games. There is risk. I clearly outlined what you can do to counter it. Explain to me then, how I survived a gank in a t1 hauler? I fit for shield and hull tank šŸ˜ƒ They didnā€™t even clear my shields before CONCORD came. There is plenty risk of them failing, as long as you take standard precautions LOL. > [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > Where is the forum moderator, this poster is saying the same thing OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. My guy, you are also saying the same thing over and over šŸ˜ƒ I just happen to be right. And you know it bro šŸ˜ƒ Thatā€™s why it hurts so much šŸ˜ƒ > [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > Your using a false argument, you know the truth your just spouting ganker propaganda. > > Again we are not talking about ending the ā€œGankā€ we want to end the NO RISK GANKING. Is it the gankerā€™s fault you donā€™t know how to PvP in high sec? > [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > Lets try a more direct comparison. Gun control. > > Your argument is guns come with risks, so this is why its ok for everyone to have a gun. > > Your problem is you are offering limitations as an example. The reality is, gankers just want to see the world burn. They will gank and they are determined to have no consequences as this is their game. They keep refining the trade until THERE IS NO RISK. > > Gankers have zero risk. Oof bro. We playing a vidya game, not real life. Weā€™re immortal space zombies flying around in capsules šŸ˜ƒ > [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > gankers just want to see the world burn. As is their right in terms of EVE. You could always fit up, fleet up, and fly out to stop them. But you wonā€™t šŸ˜ƒ > [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > So precise, you may assume they use bots. I see the same Safety player running 7 catalysts ganking risk free every day. LOL now come the unclaimed botting accusations. You realize it isnā€™t hard to kill people who arenā€™t evading right? > [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > To anyone who agrees with me, the messaging must be the same and clear in every single post we make. > > Ganking is risk free in EVE. Except that it isnā€™t šŸ˜ƒ Your opinion bucko, not fact. Sorry šŸ˜ƒ > [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > A way to scam money out of players who donā€™t want to be attacked. They consented to being attacked as soon as they undocked. > [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > A way to gain pleasure (Machiavellian pleasures) in the forms for verbal manipulation of the rules and CCP itself. I mean we play vidya games for enjoyment? They are playing an open world PvP game bruv. > [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > Possible loot payday, pretty much always pays more then the catalyst loss. Well duh. Hence why people gank. Hence why people pirate LOL. > [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > Sociopathic pleasures as well, knowing you cultivate salt and disappointment among players and then the pleasure of gas lighting them to think CCP endorses you. Mmm. Now friend, what qualifies you to make this medical diagnosis sight unseen? ---
**Author:** ![Most\_Moliko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/most_moliko/32/378698_2.png) [@Most\_Moliko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Most_Moliko)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 7:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1045 "2022-10-03T07:40:11Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > As many as it takes for you to answer a simple question Your not asking a question. You have no questions. You have statements that present as questions but your not really looking for an answer. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 7:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1046 "2022-10-03T07:40:30Z")
> [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > Your not asking a question. You have no questions. You have statements that present as questions but your not really looking for an answer. Heh. You dodged that question pretty hard bro. You train with Patches? ---
**Author:** ![Most\_Moliko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/most_moliko/32/378698_2.png) [@Most\_Moliko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Most_Moliko)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 7:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1047 "2022-10-03T07:42:23Z")
I am not going to quote a wall of text and respond to all that. I believe your the same player who likes to argue with people in forums and you post on youtube. If i am correct. I have looked at your logical arguments itā€™s full of cognitive fallacies and i donā€™t have the time or inclination to unpack everything that is derailed in your heuristics. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 7:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1048 "2022-10-03T07:44:46Z")
Uh. Post on YT? Never made a YT video in my life bruv šŸ˜ƒ Yes, I do post on these forums quite a bit šŸ˜ƒ Ah. So in other words you canā€™t counter my points, so you hopped into your ROFLcopter and promptly faceplanted it into the ground. Itā€™s ok bro. You can admit you canā€™t EVE well šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Most\_Moliko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/most_moliko/32/378698_2.png) [@Most\_Moliko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Most_Moliko)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 7:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1049 "2022-10-03T07:45:37Z")
Again until people actually rationally address the zero risk involved with the way Safety ganks with a bunch of calalysts, i have no desire to address whatever your false logic is serving up as a part of your availability bias. ---
**Author:** ![Most\_Moliko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/most_moliko/32/378698_2.png) [@Most\_Moliko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Most_Moliko)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 7:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1050 "2022-10-03T07:46:35Z")
Again your saying nothing, you are not making a rational response to the zero risk. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 7:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1051 "2022-10-03T07:47:57Z")
Sigh. I get why youā€™re slinging jargon. Youā€™re appealing to seem smart and credible. Sadly, youā€™re wrong šŸ˜ƒ There is risk. However, as you demonstrate most people will not do the bare minimum to defend themselves. Hence, they die easy. > [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > Again your saying nothing, you are not making a rational response to the zero risk. Oh, itā€™s quite rational šŸ˜ƒ Itā€™s why youā€™re shucking and jivving so hard šŸ˜ƒ Want to avoid the gank? Follow the many counters and ways that have been listed. Want me to list more for you? ---
**Author:** ![Most\_Moliko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/most_moliko/32/378698_2.png) [@Most\_Moliko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Most_Moliko)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 7:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1052 "2022-10-03T07:49:10Z")
Canā€¦ you ā€¦ respondā€¦ toā€¦ gankingā€¦ havingā€¦ zeroā€¦ riskā€¦ inā€¦ lessā€¦ thenā€¦ 10ā€¦ wordsā€¦? ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 7:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1053 "2022-10-03T07:49:47Z")
Back kind of on the subject. The ESI provides an endpoint to monitor how much destruction is occurring in kspace. It updates each hour and you can pull the number of ships killed (by players and NPCs), pods kills (by players) and NPCs killed (in PVE). Based on monitoring that for the last 24 hours, for Highsec: | Criteria | Total Systems | | --- | --- | | No ships lost | 700 | | More than 10 ships lost | 137 | | Ships lost every hour | 11 | 59% of highsec systems havenā€™t experienced any ship loss in the last 24 hours. Anyone playing in those systems has had 0 practical risk of being ganked. Itā€™s the same day after day after day. Highsec doesnā€™t need to be rebalanced: - New players just need to be educated on how to spot a gank hotspot and to stay away from them - More experienced players should limit the consequence to themselves if they need to move through ganking hotspots (and in doing so, make it non-profitable to be ganked) Ganking would die out even more if we could help the community do those 2 things. ---
**Author:** ![Most\_Moliko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/most_moliko/32/378698_2.png) [@Most\_Moliko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Most_Moliko)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 7:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1054 "2022-10-03T07:52:43Z")
Statistical delusion. Are you a demographer? There is no way you could get away with submitting this as means of determining anything. You are taking a large sample to intentionally dilute the actual issue. Eve space is about travel and choke points. So you can only sample the stats at the choke points. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999.md?page=45) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999.md?page=47)