# One Way to Balance High-Security Space 🗡 **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 24, 2022, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999 "2022-09-24T16:27:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 49
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 8:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1098 "2022-10-03T08:53:53Z")
> [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > Yes i am blind, this is why my characters all use sunglasses, thank you for rubbing it in. If you want to help out. Be concise. Nah mate, I’ll type however I want. This forum is for public discourse 😃 If you can’t handle, I suggest buying a plot in Stardew Valley 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 8:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1099 "2022-10-03T08:54:10Z")
> [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > Earlier on we were very specific about the actions of Safety and their use of concord allows them to gank with zero risk. Obviously non-exploitive gankers will experience the proper amount of risk for the play style they are choosing. Thank you, Mr Moliko, for your clarification. You may with profit consider modifying and qualifying your assertion that there is ‘Zero risk to the ganker’, in light of the Court’s findings, so that a truthful and consistent view is presented to the Community, of which you remain a valued part. S Ilyich Nemtsov etc. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 8:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1100 "2022-10-03T08:55:48Z")
Because its what I haul expensive cargo in that gankers like to target? Sorry, does it make the question too hard? ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 9:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1101 "2022-10-03T09:19:19Z")
[ > [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > Do you think of everyone as immature to yourself? That’s some ego you have there. He loves a good spanking. He’s good at it. And you seem to be in need of one, long overdue even. > [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > So you saying without the concord exploit Pulling concord before an attack is **not** an exploit, and that is officially stated by CCP. As to the “no risk for gankers” gas you vent: hisec gankers already accepted the LOSS of a ship that comes with the RISK of attacking in hisec. Accepting loss doesn’t mean the risk evaporated, but that the risk becomes reality. > [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > Why pick a ship that hard to kill? Why not pick an Avatar? Because Avatars don’t get ganked in hisec. Odd, isn’t it. They can’t even enter hisec, lmao. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 9:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1102 "2022-10-03T09:32:02Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Not all wars are organised, but all are consensual. You’re a clueless ■■■■ stirrer. Do you honestly think that burning down two entire regions worth of structures except the final constellation, the loss of trillions of ISK on both sides was _ **consensual** _ ? Not to mention the **risk** for the existence of an alliance/coalition ? Clueless is even too polite a word. Or are you going to try to convince people what according to Lucas Kell “consensual” should mean ? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Watch him be entirely ineffective though as he’s still sitting in a group dominated by nullsec shills. I’d have to be part of the CSM to do that, wouldn’t I. But Lucas Kell of course knows how it _really_ works, doesn’t he. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > cherrypicked Yeah, the list is too long to include them all. I took the funniest bits. So sorry. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > wild ad hominems prove me wrong, show how they are “wild” lol > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > ou won’t get a reasonable discussion from Scipio. His primary function seems to be to provide cherrypicked stats for gankers these days. Bit of a shame. Well well. Look at that. You turn on the very people who tried to have a decent dialogue. Scipio in particular has gone out of his way to get numbers, the same numbers you downloaded, but better organized (and better skilled to query the dataset too ?). You were even communicating directly with him. Kelly no like the numbers ? Kelly attacks the person who retrieved the numbers ! Pathetic. You haven’t answered the question: > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Is there any game aspect or player group you do not hate ? ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 9:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1104 "2022-10-03T09:59:09Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > an interpretation as if it’s indisputable, pro-gank fact. Wrong. The data is indisputable. Interpretation can always be disputed where it isn’t just a straight list of the raw data; and in a lot of cases there are sets of assumptions that would take too long to outline in a length of post that would be readable. However, having collected, cleaned, analysed and visualized multiple different sources over a long time, overwhelmingly, the same conclusions emerge. Where they don’t suit, of course people will do whatever they can to dismiss it, because that’s easier than examining their own prejudices. If there is evidence counter to what I present, then present it. But on the one hand claiming you’ll take CCP’s word over someone else in the forum and then in the next, dismissing CCP’s word because the results don’t align with your own opinion is exactly the same thing. So if you want to get past hurf blurf, present some actual data that we can all take an independent look at. That’s something that’s been sorely lacking for the last decade. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 10:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1105 "2022-10-03T10:00:22Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Thank you for your opinion. It’s no longer an opinion. It’s a certainty, a judgement. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > > > I’d have to be part of the CSM to do that, wouldn’t I. > > No? You can watch the outcomes More cluelessness. What the CSM wants and how CCP responds are two entirely separate things. Do you honestly believe the CSM pushed for more PI stuff in t2 blueprints, or the loss mechanic in mining, or the removal of entire belts in under half of nullsec ? Emotions aren’t great advisers, and filling up holes with hate is the easiest, cheapest solution that only adds to a bigger problem. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’m not turning on anyone LMAO. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I actually only object to one group of players, because gankers and nullsec blob members are for the most part the same group of people. Perhaps Aiko can tell us where she lives. I don’t think her group lives in nullsec … 🤣 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Even CODE was a goon initiative, run by a goon, funded by goons. Grrrrrguuuuuns. We get that, but it’s old and mouldy now. Don’t you find it “funny” how the people who actually have a signature in this game mostly belong to one of the “despised” groups ? I wonder why … (I don’t, but I’m egging you on to produce more fun replies). In other words ![ridikulus](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/1/5/3/1539638cef0c80351fdb10f3eb64ab33b823c934.gif) Riddikulukas ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 10:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1107 "2022-10-03T10:16:29Z")
I thought that IB4TL was a system in New Eden ---
**Author:** ![Oosel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oosel/32/389219_2.png) [@Oosel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oosel)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 10:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1108 "2022-10-03T10:24:21Z")
cant help but think this is a long winded attempt to get people out in null but for those who dont have time or enjoy being ganked nothing is ever ever ever going to get them there. people will simply just go and play something else that rewards their time played…highsec is the only playable area of the game where i know i can log in and be able to do anything i like if im not afk ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 10:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1109 "2022-10-03T10:26:56Z")
Well Pilot Progression will become a huge part of time played in the Faction Wars ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Vlad\_Tepes1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/count_vlad_tepes1/32/336485_2.png) [@Count\_Vlad\_Tepes1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Count_Vlad_Tepes1)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 10:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1110 "2022-10-03T10:30:06Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > there’s no risk for me hauling goods either Bollocks! > [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > CCP is not listening Correct. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Personal attacks are the go to of… Pretty much the entire ganking community. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > why aren’t you doing it already? Morals and character still exist. > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Sounds like a good gig! Which is exactly why you’re defending it at all costs. > [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > this poster is saying the same thing OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. He always does. > [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > Risk of a non-ganker? SEE: Straw Man Argument > [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > Gankers have zero risk. They know this. CCP knows this. It will be addressed. > [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > Are you able to answer this or not? You’re just acting dumb. It’s been explained a thousand times. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > _guarantee_ of ship loss for gankers Nice redirect. I always thought that the term, “100% _CHANCE_ of rain” was funny though. > [@Most\_Moliko](#): > > Ganking is risk free in EVE. They know this. They love this. Catalysts are more like ammunition. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Mining or hauling without ganking is also Risk Free Please look up “High Security” and get back to me. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 10:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1111 "2022-10-03T10:30:09Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Weird that CCP seems to think ganking is having an impact on player churn then. Why is it weird? I have no issue with them saying that. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Indeed. You seek a specific conclusion and it always emerges. ■■■■■■■■. One the plus side though, at least I actully seek some truth rather than just taking a faith based approach that I’m somehow right. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Where have I done this? Should we go back through posts on previous studies and statements by CCP? How flawed they are, etc.? You can’t honestly going to say you haven’t done that. You always do it when they present something that doesn’t align with your existing view. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You can’t possibly be claiming that your interpretation of a limited subset of CCPs data is their word No. Only an idiot would think I have done that ever. So to this: > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > So if you want to get past hurf blurf, present some actual data that we can all take an independent look at. That’s something that’s been sorely lacking for the last decade. Just for once it would be great to see someone who comes claiming things, to actually have some evidence for what they claim. You’ve never had it; and still conveniently skip past doing so. Of course. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 10:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1112 "2022-10-03T10:31:41Z")
Wierd last time I checked Scott was claiming he was from Null. So hes _not_ a blobkrab friend of Brisc now? Huh ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 10:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1114 "2022-10-03T10:42:19Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > If you say so fella. I’ll even repeat it. It’s a judgement. You’re a ■■■■ poster who does not have a balanced view and who is only here for your kind of fun, trolling. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > but the CSM represents player feedback which is why so many pro-null changes get pushed through. such as ? apparently they couldn’t prevent the ESS mechanic, which is universally hated. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > nullsec alts. conspiracy theory ? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > > > Don’t you find it “funny” how the people who actually have a signature in this game mostly belong to one of the “despised” groups ? > > No, I don’t find it “funny” how one of the largest and most powerful coalitions has had broad impacts across the game You mean ganking in hisec ? I remember Hulkageddon. I remember Burn Jita. That was more than a decade ago. Notoriety comes from fear. The monster under the bed is still able to do its thing long after it’s gone, it seems. It’s a pity that a thing like Hulkageddon is no longer possible, let alone the Orcageddon it would require in these days of Orca/Hulk locust swarms. It would have been good for the game’s economy, and the killboards, and the spirit. It might even trigger some in-game response. But no, crying to daddy CCP is so much easier, isn’t it. You can’t handle it that there are top players, who are able to run huge groups, organize a viable structure, and play the way they want in the sandbox and make their presence felt in a eat-or-be-eaten virtual world setting. Be it via combat, or via attempts to influence trade, that is the reality in this game. Well boohoohoo. Better yet, wizen up. Ganking in hisec has zero impact unless psychologically on the microscopically small group that throws tantrums and fail to look at what they themselves are doing, or rather _not_ doing. Special brand of salt, that one. As expected you couldn’t answer that question, which was about _individuals_, and not blocs. Your biggest mistake is that you take a position of wanting to play an open sandbox MMO as a solo player. I don’t care how many accounts you run, you’re still a solo player. Organized players will _always_ have the upper hand on you, and you owe that to your choices. Live with it. ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Walk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/long_walk/32/247889_2.png) [@Long\_Walk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Long_Walk)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 10:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1115 "2022-10-03T10:47:24Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You seek confirmation of your bias. You are correct. It appears that the community volunteers are also biased. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 10:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1116 "2022-10-03T10:51:06Z")
Sorry, I don’t know who “Scott” is ? Is that our frequent ■■■■ poster here ? As to your opinion of Brisc, it’s fierce and I don’t know where that comes from. But I’m staying out of it. 😃 You know I vote for him, and will again if he ever runs after his mandatory break, regardless of me being in high, null or w-space at that moment. And the same goes for Mike Azariah. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 10:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1117 "2022-10-03T10:52:19Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Its weird that it goes against your conclusions that peopel are perfectly safe in highsec. Where have I written that people are perfectly safe in highsec? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > One study, done by one CCP developer which was widely disputed based on him presenting a flawed methodology. So you admit you have done it? That would be something at least (and CCP have presented far more than one study that others have taken way out of conext). > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > But you know as well as I do that this data is not available. The only difference is that you then present some cobbled together data alongside statements about what it proves. You claimed multiple times that its fact. When asked to present the data you went off and presented some screenshots of pulling data, but so far of course, no signs of any of it. Just the typical, all talk and no actual action. So no, not the only thing different. Every bit of data I present, people can go an independently obtain, analyse and confirm the details of. Most of what you write is backed by vapourware. Nothing anyone can check to see if it actually has merit. Overwhelmingly, when I analyse data to keep my own hauling operations safe, the hysteria and claims about the risk of being ganked don’t stack up to what the data shows for the ships groups I am interested in, nor do their generalized statements about the dangers of highsec. People just don’t validate what they claim, they just think it must be true because it seems logical to them. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 10:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1118 "2022-10-03T10:52:42Z")
Yeah Drac’s alt there. Rest redacted on advice from my space lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 10:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1119 "2022-10-03T10:56:31Z")
Sorry, still clueless, who’s Drac ? I don’t keep track of individuals posting. I only remember the ones I either have affinity with, or the ones I have long standing discussions with (positive or negative). ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 10:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/one-way-to-balance-high-security-space/377999/1120 "2022-10-03T10:56:53Z")
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