# Open Letter on the State of Civility on This Forum **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 12, 2024, 11:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062 "2024-12-12T23:34:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2024, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062/81 "2024-12-13T20:07:33Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > Let’s see how long _that_ lasts… Everyone: `Challenge accepted`. 😈 ---
**Author:** ![Smarter\_ThanU](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/smarter_thanu/32/436079_2.png) [@Smarter\_ThanU](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Smarter_ThanU)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2024, 8:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062/82 "2024-12-13T20:15:16Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > let us scrutinise your comment and determine its veracity Well know facts don’t need to be verified. “Ocean water is salty.” Scrutinize that, if you will. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2024, 8:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062/83 "2024-12-13T20:15:30Z")
> [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > All I hear is slurp, slurp, slurp. That was very civil of you, Mr Epeen; it was also quite funny. Humour can help to ease people into complicated discussions, such as this one about Forum conduct, or lighten the mood when things have become dark and dreary. Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![Smarter\_ThanU](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/smarter_thanu/32/436079_2.png) [@Smarter\_ThanU](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Smarter_ThanU)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2024, 8:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062/84 "2024-12-13T20:17:29Z")
Example: You suck. > [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2024, 8:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062/85 "2024-12-13T20:17:50Z")
> [@Smarter\_ThanU](#): > > Well know facts don’t need to be verified. Perhaps not, but they can _disputed_, hence the value of verification. Thank you for your contribution! ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2024, 8:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062/86 "2024-12-13T20:19:50Z")
I think you should make a poll on it. Number of posts. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2024, 8:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062/87 "2024-12-13T20:20:22Z")
> [@Smarter\_ThanU](#): > > You suck. Is not a complete sentence, since it has a subject and a verb, but no object. Thank you for the time you took to write this observation. Do you have any thoughts about the subject of the thread? I should be pleased to review them. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2024, 8:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062/88 "2024-12-13T20:22:43Z")
> [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > I think you should make a poll on it. Too late. Never mind. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2024, 8:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062/89 "2024-12-13T20:27:48Z")
> [@Smarter\_ThanU](#): > > I will make a genuine attempt to be more constructive. Quoted for emphasis. > [@Smarter\_ThanU](#): > > You suck. Oops… ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2024, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062/90 "2024-12-13T20:30:33Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > I will stick doggedly to the topic I don’t think you know what that means. You failed in a staggering small amount of posts. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2024, 8:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062/91 "2024-12-13T20:32:53Z")
> [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > You failed in a staggering small amount of posts. Did you mean ‘succeeded’? I do get weary as the evening marches on (UK). Apologies if I misread what you wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2024, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062/92 "2024-12-13T20:36:26Z")
Just curious as to why you changed Altara’s status to ‘neutral’ and had to notify me of it. Was there some subliminal message I missed ? ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2024, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062/93 "2024-12-13T20:41:37Z")
> [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > Just curious Maybe he doesn’t just write cryptic `wordsalad`s but also performs them as well? 🤔 🤭 ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2024, 8:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062/94 "2024-12-13T20:48:25Z")
Btw the way the way this thread is heading makes me feel like and reminds me of this scene: [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/d/1/6/d16bbed0b769209390a42dafa6b6c96100e8b7d6.jpeg "Welcoming The Rapture | 2012 | CineClips") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLqf_IdrMKw) 🍿 😊 🍿 ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2024, 8:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062/95 "2024-12-13T20:58:07Z")
> [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](#): > > the way this thread is heading makes me feel I am trying, Uriel, _honestly_. But it’s a long slog to the Summit of Utter Civility, Kindness and Solicitude. The English language is so very beautiful. A shame, though, to find it mauled about and desecrated during a discussion about - of all things - courtesy and respect. ---
**Author:** ![Smarter\_ThanU](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/smarter_thanu/32/436079_2.png) [@Smarter\_ThanU](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Smarter_ThanU)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2024, 9:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062/96 "2024-12-13T21:23:30Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > Is not a complete sentence It is. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2024, 9:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062/97 "2024-12-13T21:40:19Z")
> [@Smarter\_ThanU](#): > > It is. English grammar disagrees. ‘You suck oranges.’ is a sentence. ‘You suck your thumb.’ is a sentence. ‘You suck.’ is not a sentence for it is unclear what is being sucked. Civilly yours, ---
**Author:** ![James\_Fuchs](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/james_fuchs/32/504955_2.png) [@James\_Fuchs](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/James_Fuchs)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2024, 10:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062/98 "2024-12-13T22:20:31Z")
> [@Smarter\_ThanU](#): > > Derail a thread that’s an obvious troll? > > The OP is one of the most insulting people I’ve seen here. > > No one believes that he’s being sincere. _Where_ do you get the idea that I am an insulting person? Let alone one of the most insulting ones, apparently? From my very first post, I have held myself to a certain standard regarding my forum conduct. We have hardly even interacted, how could you possibly “know” me? This all reeks of drama-stirring, but feel free to prove me wrong. In my opening post, I simply pointed out what I have observed, and the posters proclaiming these observations as “nonsense” or “trolling” have worked very hard to prove every single one of my points right in this very thread. This thread might even be on the cusp of being locked down due to the severity of the vitriol being spread here. So how can my conduct possibly be the problem if simply drawing attention to this state of affairs elicits such a hefty and one-sided response? I cannot think of a reason other than ulterior motives, ones that have nothing to do with my behavior but rather with the simple fact that I am a ganker. Posters like these love to point fingers at gankers as the source of all evil. But what can a ganker really take from you? A ship, when you’re not paying attention, when you’re in the wrong place at the wrong time. Now consider what null blocs and other large alliances do: they wipe out entire systems of player inventory. They will drop hundreds of super-capitals on you until your entire corporation is bled dry. Ever heard of Blackflag? They smash your structures in high-security space, preying on solo and small corps, swarming you with marauders in a fight you can’t hope to win. Think you’re safe in an uncharted wormhole? Wormhole evictions will send you packing, destroying possibly years of progress of your corp and alliance. Do you hurl your barbarity their way? How do the losses caused by these gigantic groups, which players can’t possibly fight back against, stack up against what a ganker could ever do to you? Yet these posters surely regard massive groups stomping out upstart corps and alliances as the cool 🕶 “EVE way,” the _right_ way, while gankers are cast as repulsive villains who “grief” new players and ruin the game. No matter how you look at it, the vitriol and inflammatory responses from these posters seem wholly unjustified, unreasonable, even. Therefore, I invite all third parties in this discussion to form their own judgment on the conduct presented in this thread. I believe the contrast between how these posters claim we conduct ourselves and how we actually do is self-evident. With civilized regards, -James Fuchs ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2024, 10:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062/99 "2024-12-13T22:40:32Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > English grammar disagrees. > > ‘You suck oranges.’ is a sentence. > ‘You suck your thumb.’ is a sentence. > ‘You suck.’ is not a sentence for it is unclear what is being sucked. I looked everywhere in the OP and never found it to be a treatise on grammar usage. I say again: I don’t think you know what this means. > [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > I will stick doggedly to the topic and not be lured off on a tangent Your desperate cry for attention seems to be working, but not in a good way. Try a different shtick. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Aciiiid](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aciiiid/32/425651_2.png) [@Aciiiid](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aciiiid)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2024, 10:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062/100 "2024-12-13T22:43:13Z")
> [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](#): > > I honestly believe things could be improved and that the forums could become an actual place for useful discussion. > > Maybe it’s naive of me and just wishful thinking. > > But personally at least try to give it a try. Now read last 40 or 50 posts in this thread. Quick reminder: this was supposed to be a discussion about the quality of forum posts. Do you still think this place can be saved? Unless your post was just one more troll post and it’s me being naive now… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-on-the-state-of-civility-on-this-forum/471062.md?page=6)