# Open Letter to CCP - Reloaded again **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 19, 2023, 9:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-to-ccp-reloaded-again/428727 "2023-11-19T21:07:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Prospektor\_Schipplock](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/prospektor_schipplock/32/427968_2.png) [@Prospektor\_Schipplock](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Prospektor_Schipplock)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2023, 9:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-to-ccp-reloaded-again/428727/1 "2023-11-19T21:07:46Z")
Hello CCP, Hello Capsuleers, i was just wondering, why a structure, driven by 2 peoples can have so a huge impact on the industry index. Why is it not possible that, depending on amount of Production Facilities in a system, can push back the industry index. That makes no sense to me. For example, its like having a automobil company like tesla, that builds its on stuff in a megafacility in the entire world. We talk about a solar system. When we have multiple Facilities there, it should be have some impact on the Industry Index. Whats with parallel Production ? Is that now wished form CCPs side. I have no problem putting up additional structures, if they have some impact. But i do not understand the short-sight term of CCPs Gamedevelopement here. Can someone explain it to me ? Thx. Prospektor Schipplock P.S. Mabye make some “Personal” Thing here. Like Science Graduates for Research Facilities. Or Make the amount of Robotics - the Station more effective on pushing back the Industry Index. I mean Production is has not itself reinvented. ---
**Author:** ![Malak\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malak_starfire/32/501915_2.png) [@Malak\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malak_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2023, 9:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-to-ccp-reloaded-again/428727/2 "2023-11-19T21:40:32Z")
That mega factory gets taxed by the government, Workers have income tax, land owners get property tax, and all other sorts of taxes. All that is wrapped into the system index cost. ---
**Author:** ![Vuhdo\_Rin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vuhdo_rin/32/378868_2.png) [@Vuhdo\_Rin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vuhdo_Rin)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2023, 9:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-to-ccp-reloaded-again/428727/3 "2023-11-19T21:48:35Z")
> [@Prospektor\_Schipplock](#): > > i was just wondering, why a structure, driven by 2 peoples can have so a huge impact on the industry index. maybe this structure is used for produce stuff and the owner produce an enormus amount of stuff ? maybe the structure is a public structure with low tax for industrie ? > [@Prospektor\_Schipplock](#): > > Why is it not possible that, depending on amount of Production Facilities in a system, can push back the industry index. so … your idea is to spamm as much stations that the industrie index drops ? THIS makes no sense ! > [@Prospektor\_Schipplock](#): > > For example, its like having a automobil company like tesla, that builds its on stuff in a megafacility in the entire world. We talk about a solar system. When we have multiple Facilities there, it should be have some impact on the Industry Index. why ? if you only spread the production then you simply has the same ammount of produktion but you need more stations ! and btw … RL comparisons are never a great idea … > [@Prospektor\_Schipplock](#): > > Whats with parallel Production ? Is that now wished form CCPs side. I have no problem putting up additional structures, if they have some impact. you can have an impact for additional stations ! just take a look what you want to produce and then fit the station with the specific RIG and now you have a production bonus for, lets say Ship hulls ! the next station has a bonus für module production ! and the 3rd station has a production bonus für ammunition… ---
**Author:** ![Belit\_the\_Shemite](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/belit_the_shemite/32/394691_2.png) [@Belit\_the\_Shemite](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Belit_the_Shemite)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2023, 9:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-to-ccp-reloaded-again/428727/4 "2023-11-19T21:56:14Z")
> [@Prospektor\_Schipplock](#): > > When we have multiple Facilities there, it should be have some impact on the Industry Index. Only if the game owners want it to. > [@Prospektor\_Schipplock](#): > > Can someone explain it to me ? It just needs to make real money. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Prospektor\_Schipplock](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/prospektor_schipplock/32/427968_2.png) [@Prospektor\_Schipplock](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Prospektor_Schipplock)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-to-ccp-reloaded-again/428727/5 "2023-11-19T21:57:04Z")
I know what the rig does. But as i said we are 2 Players pushing the index above 5.0. And its not that much ships, its t2 Production etc… So i have to build a lot of submaterial, to build max 10 T2 Ships. And keeping up running with 100 Slots. Yeah pushing the index a lot. I would understand pushing an system index here, by producing capitals. I totally do. But producing 20-40 Navy Cormorants - for example. Or 2-3 Golems a day. Pushing that index so hard. I totally not get it why this has so a huge impact on it. And compared to 0.0 Systems, where you pump out one super after an other, its on 10%. So please explain to me, where we (compared to the RL), as Employer has to move to a different location, built up another station, to reduce the tax on both systems. Is that solar system so small, or has it to less residents ? Or whats ongoing here ? ---
**Author:** ![Vuhdo\_Rin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vuhdo_rin/32/378868_2.png) [@Vuhdo\_Rin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vuhdo_Rin)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2023, 10:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-to-ccp-reloaded-again/428727/6 "2023-11-19T22:06:04Z")
> [@Prospektor\_Schipplock](#): > > And keeping up running with 100 Slots. Yeah pushing the index a lot. > [@Prospektor\_Schipplock](#): > > 20-40 Navy Cormorants - for example. Or 2-3 Golems a day. 100 slots are not 20-40 navy corms or 2-3 golems a day > [@Prospektor\_Schipplock](#): > > So please explain to me, where we (compared to the RL), as Employer has to move to a different location, built up another station, to reduce the tax on both systems. more stations in deffernt systems and you can switch between your production systems ! > [@Prospektor\_Schipplock](#): > > Is that solar system so small, or has it to less residents ? Or whats ongoing here ? wtf is this ■■■■ ? are you able to understand that CCP dont want that everybody produces their stuff in only 1 system ? has nothing to do with the size of a system ! and this is a reason why RL comparisons are stupid ! CCP has createt a space and they need some rules to balance a G A M E ! its not a real life industry you are running ! ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2023, 10:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-to-ccp-reloaded-again/428727/7 "2023-11-19T22:22:18Z")
What are you talking about? Just rotate systems, New Eden is big. I‘m one char and had to do that when I was producing citadels back then when they were hot. CCP removed the obscure index factor which gave some systems a lower index curve, if you knew the mechanic. Now all systems are equal, and only FW systems can enjoy a bonus if somebody pays for it, like in Tama. Tama crossed index 12 recently which makes it 6% after FW bonus. ---
**Author:** ![Prospektor\_Schipplock](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/prospektor_schipplock/32/427968_2.png) [@Prospektor\_Schipplock](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Prospektor_Schipplock)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2023, 7:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-to-ccp-reloaded-again/428727/8 "2023-11-20T07:53:38Z")
Ok, got it. I from my part, dont see the idea behind it. But ok, i swallow this now. But thx for sharing your thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/516281_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2023, 8:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-to-ccp-reloaded-again/428727/9 "2023-11-20T08:16:33Z")
> [@Prospektor\_Schipplock](#): > > I from my part, dont see the idea behind it. The idea is to punish exactly that what you do: Producing _everything on your own in a single location_ with a whole rack of altchars. It’s like a stacking-penalty for using too many production lines in a single system. Like resource hotspots vanishing on planets if you try to make PI with 20 chars in a single system. CCP wants trade and cooperation of _different_ players, sharing the profits instead of moving all the ISK into one players wallet because he does everything on his own multiple chars, running hundreds of jobs, claiming all the profits from the whole production chain, from raw-resource processing to the final product. So they make it expensive for guys like you, maybe to the point that you better buy some of your mats from other players or at least are forced to run multiple stations in multiple systems (well, you pay less fees but more fuel then ^^). Working as intended. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2023, 9:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-to-ccp-reloaded-again/428727/10 "2023-11-20T09:13:29Z")
The original idea by CCP was to force people to spread out for production after they removed the slot limit. I’ve arranged with it, by moving bigger production items to a highsec system with minimal index. Because this is often on par or better than lower sec options, as their clustering and index ruins the ME effect of the citadel rigs (in terms of total cost). The only drawback then is the much longer production time in highsec NPC stations. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2023, 9:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-to-ccp-reloaded-again/428727/11 "2023-11-20T09:47:17Z")
> [@Prospektor\_Schipplock](#): > > For example, its like having a automobil company like tesla, that builds its on stuff in a megafacility in the entire world. That company installs a factory in Germany. Electricity prices rise a bit because of reasons. That company then decide to go somewhere else. If that company had decided to install two factories, then electricity prices would have even risen more. We live in a global world, but logistics, infrastructures have a cost. And this cost usually does not scale well. > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > moving bigger production items to a highsec system with minimal index. Now you can mostly ignore the index. CCP made it mostly irrelevant with their last change. The addition of 1.75 _base_ and 2 _effective_ means than even if you go from 6.25 to 4.25 you only save 2/8 = 25% of the job installation cost. While before you could go from 2.5 to 0.5 and save 2/2.5 = 80% . ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2023, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-to-ccp-reloaded-again/428727/12 "2023-11-20T11:18:43Z")
There is now a floor and all more leveled, but going from 6-\>0.5 is still significant. Also 6 is already quite low for hub systems. You have to do the calc case by case, as the estimated output price varies among products, and can be out of touch sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2023, 11:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-to-ccp-reloaded-again/428727/13 "2023-11-20T11:31:42Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > m 6-\>0.5 is still significant. Let me check … lowest ME HS labo is 1.66 (WTF ? it was \>2.5 yesterday when I moved my research BPO … come on I need to make 150 jumps again) lowest TE HS labo is 2.17 lowest manufacturing with invention is 0.2, but then 0.53 There is not even a point in placing a structure in a low index. With a handful job you reach 2% base, so unless you keep seeding new raitarus you are wasting your time. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2023, 11:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-to-ccp-reloaded-again/428727/14 "2023-11-20T11:42:17Z")
I was talking about manufacturing big stuff not ME/TE research. I haven’t done any long running after the indu patch, just the usual T2 components, and T2/T3 invention, where the costs are negligible. So I can’t talk about their calculation atm. ---
**Author:** ![Vizkomaru\_Togashi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vizkomaru_togashi/32/464153_2.png) [@Vizkomaru\_Togashi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vizkomaru_Togashi)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 1:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-to-ccp-reloaded-again/428727/15 "2023-11-22T01:04:19Z")
Ok, I’m not smart enough to understand this discussion. But hey! cheers! ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 9:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-to-ccp-reloaded-again/428727/17 "2023-11-30T21:35:34Z")
Frostpacker also tries to do their best also. If Orincess considers unblocking there is a stack of T2 cats waiting instructions. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 1:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-to-ccp-reloaded-again/428727/18 "2023-12-01T01:31:06Z")
Very well, send me my t2 cats and be quick about it. ---
**Author:** ![Simon\_Thrawn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/simon_thrawn/32/397198_2.png) [@Simon\_Thrawn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Simon_Thrawn)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 2:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-to-ccp-reloaded-again/428727/19 "2023-12-01T02:05:06Z")
The rules make perfect sense to me given my prior work and life in Europe. There is nothing that cannot be made perfect without just a few more rules and adjustments to the rules. Just be happy we don’t need to pay for a special stamp from a specific department on every document and action too. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 2:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-to-ccp-reloaded-again/428727/20 "2023-12-01T02:12:12Z")
Those are fair points. I will think about adding some new rules, and maybe a mining stamp or visa. ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 5:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-to-ccp-reloaded-again/428727/21 "2023-12-01T05:44:00Z")
May _we_ humbly request respect from now on even though _we_ still don’t fully understand yet if the next module will be difficult to pass! [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/open-letter-to-ccp-reloaded-again/428727.md?page=2)