# Orca and Rorq: Bring Balance CCP! **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [January 5, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069 "2020-01-05T16:39:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069/61 "2020-01-15T14:33:56Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/c/b/cbc1f7b1d45a2472e43c0be753156f9688109175.jpeg) Salt\_Foambreaker: > > > yours is just the kind of posts we ignore. > > BS again. Why would we want to read your posts, they all deny a problem exists. We read posts for solutions, not “do nothing”. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 3:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069/62 "2020-01-15T15:01:05Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > - T3 Cruisers - classically have always filled multiple roles > - Covert Ops - at least 2 traditional roles - exploration and scouting (including cloaky camping) > - Bombers - bombing and traditionally a cyno platform for capital escalation > - Catalyst - has for a long time been used as a salvage platform in addition to a combat ship > - Interceptors - scouting, tackle and combat, plus nullified travel > - Many combat ships also made good mining ships prior to barges > - Rorquals - clone bay, compression, boosting even before the links changes > - Titans - combat, bridging, clone bays, etc. Talk about reaching for straws. Made up “lesser roles” don’t count. Show me ships with 3 CORE ROLES. Rorq is in the title to be nerfed, and Titan? OK Lets make Orca Banned in Empire Space? ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 8:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069/63 "2020-01-15T20:57:52Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > Show me ships with 3 CORE ROLES. From “3 roles” (you’re earlier request), to “3 CORE ROLES”. Don’t like the answer, change the question I guess. What is the single core role of a T3C? Whine all you like, CCP designed it that way because the community bitched and moaned so much about having to put the ships at risk. That was the trade off. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 9:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069/64 "2020-01-15T21:56:59Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > Why would we want to read your posts, they all deny a problem exists. We read posts for solutions, not “do nothing”. Your post is not to describe a problem. It is to ■■■■■ that you don’t like how people “adapted”. You have not explained any problem, only claimed that the current game is a problem for you. Your problem, is that water is wet. Does not mean that CCP should change this. “BUT THERE IS A PROBLEM”. You are delusional. The problem, is you. > [@Bronson\_Hughes](#): > > So, at the end of the day, when you exclude ships that _don’t_, how many ships actually have **three** roles beyond the Orca and Rorqual? Fixed for you, in italic. “If I consider people who don’t speak german, nobody speaks german, that means german should not be spoken”. The stupidity… ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2020, 1:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069/65 "2020-01-16T01:22:18Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/c/8/c84aec0a1392962cf4972bde520efcbc05d193e3.jpeg) Bronson\_Hughes: > > > So, at the end of the day, when you exclude ships that _don’t_ , how many ships actually have **three** roles beyond the Orca and Rorqual? > > Fixed for you, in italic. “If I consider people who don’t speak german, nobody speaks german, that means german should not be spoken”. The stupidity… Silly @Bronson_Hughes trying to use facts… You cannot confused her with facts, she is way to smart for that 🤪 ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2020, 7:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069/66 "2020-01-16T07:47:17Z")
Just like you ranting that water is wet. “you can’t confuse me with facts, this is a problem !!” ---
**Author:** ![Frank\_Truck](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/frank_truck/32/287666_2.png) [@Frank\_Truck](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Frank_Truck)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069/67 "2020-01-16T20:38:52Z")
Obviously the mining role needs to be removed. ---
**Author:** ![zazzmatazz\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zazzmatazz_xu/32/451037_2.png) [@zazzmatazz\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zazzmatazz_Xu)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 1:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069/68 "2020-01-24T13:39:59Z")
I honestly believe that those that are just pooping here about orcas and Rorqual don’t even use them and here’s why; - The bigger the rock the longer it takes for drones to travel back, thus the yields per hour go down, significantly. - The smaller the rock the faster the drones get back to dump their ore, but the trade off is that rock won’t last and then you need to move, thus NO TIME TO AFK. - their counter balance to the orca or Rorqual’s tank is their vulnerability to denial of ability to mine, gank the drones, it has happened, it does happen, and it will happen, without the drones a solo orca or Rorqual is useless (as far as a role in mining is concerned). And yet there isn’t a real discussion about the poor, poor, Porpoise, why, for some reason it does the same as both the others yet received no real attention in this post. The reason is simply that others are again obcessed about someone else’s game play and how they do it and must face the facts that always turning to the forum to “nerf” it is not a solution, yet solutions that are presented are just shot down every time often by the same people who rail against any change to the game overall, why is that? Come on dog, tell the truth, it really is about ruining the game for others, as a long time mining player once I got it in my head that it was considerably better to just buy the minerals off the market then to mine them myself in terms of how much more game time I have to pursue much more profitable ventures (and more entertainment)), then mining in an awful set up that will take the entire day to fill an orca, hours upon hours eyes bleeding looking at drones flying round and round, really are you seriously concerned about it, if so then maybe CCP can implement mining to be more like PI where now CCP controls how much we mine vs the players deciding how much they want to do, but then that breaks your little sandbox doesn’t it, yet it’s fair if daddy CCP will fix it for ya. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069/69 "2020-01-24T15:11:07Z")
> [@zazzmatazz\_Xu](#): > > I honestly believe that those that are just pooping here about orcas and Rorqual don’t even use them and here’s why; > > - The bigger the rock the longer it takes for drones to travel back, thus the yields per hour go down, significantly. Posterity. 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 7:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069/70 "2020-01-24T19:16:30Z")
> [@zazzmatazz\_Xu](#): > > I honestly believe that those that are just pooping here about orcas and Rorqual don’t even use them and here’s why; The AFK Orca is a valid concern. And the only valid concern raised. But that is easily solved by making mining drones 25m and then adjusting their stats to match. Orcas can then only run 2, which means they can’t split drones to afk as long, and have to actually be around to mine. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 10:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069/71 "2020-01-24T22:03:51Z")
I like this idea and the overall capacity could be kept the same, using bonuses, so that honest players really experience no change except I suppose the need to train the larger drones. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 10:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069/72 "2020-01-24T22:10:42Z")
I’d assume they would still use the mining drone skill so no need to even train anything. ---
**Author:** ![Frank\_Truck](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/frank_truck/32/287666_2.png) [@Frank\_Truck](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Frank_Truck)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 5:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069/73 "2020-02-04T17:03:19Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Learn to read. I say that people who pretend there is a problem, are talking out of their arse. That’s the same thing as denying there is a problem. The only difference is you reverse it to be a negative statement about other people. A sure sign you are also wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 6:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069/74 "2020-02-04T18:23:07Z")
> [@Frank\_Truck](#): > > That’s the same thing as denying there is a problem. No, that is a very different thing. If you tell me that the earth is flat because pictures of earth are flat, and I say that your argument is bad, it does not mean that I say the earth is not flat. You can use that for earth is a sphere too. ---
**Author:** ![TYRANNATOR\_I1I](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tyrannator_i1i/32/381994_2.png) [@TYRANNATOR\_I1I](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TYRANNATOR_I1I)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 7:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069/75 "2020-02-04T19:48:46Z")
If you want to change anything to the Orca then please allow it to fit one laser. Otherwise I just love the multi purpose variety and playstyle this ship and the Rorqual offer. Everything is fine here! ---
**Author:** ![Bronson\_Hughes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bronson_hughes/32/189075_2.png) [@Bronson\_Hughes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bronson_Hughes)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 7:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069/76 "2020-02-05T19:19:40Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > > [@Bronson\_Hughes](#): > > > > So, at the end of the day, when you exclude ships that _don’t_, how many ships actually have **three** roles beyond the Orca and Rorqual? > > Fixed for you, in italic. “If I consider people who don’t speak german, nobody speaks german, that means german should not be spoken”. The stupidity… An interesting, but incorrect, interpretation. I excluded ships that are generally accepted to be broken or overpowered (Titans, T3s) because if you’re using them as your benchmark then whatever you’re measuring against it may also be broken or overpowered. I excluded ships with unintended roles because we’re talking about specific ship bounses here, not unintended roles. (i.e. we’re not here debating whether the Orca happens to be good at mining because it has other bonuses, we’re here debating whether the Orca is good at mining specifically because it has mining bonuses.) And when you remove those two groups from consideration, you’re left with Orcas and Rorquals. This in and of itself isn’t enough to justify a change in my mind. This fact coupled with the fact that they are often used in place of other mining ships (and by often, I mean…_ **often** _), that changes the calculus considerably. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 8:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069/77 "2020-02-05T20:18:38Z")
> [@Bronson\_Hughes](#): > > I excluded ships that are generally accepted to be broken or overpowered (Titans, T3s) because if you’re using them as your benchmark then whatever you’re measuring against it may also be broken or overpowered. No . You exclude them because otherwise your point wouldn’t hold. > [@Bronson\_Hughes](#): > > I excluded ships with unintended roles because we’re talking about specific ship bounses here, not unintended roles. Same. This is just arbitrary filtering of data. > [@Bronson\_Hughes](#): > > And when you remove those two groups from consideration, you’re left with Orcas and Rorquals. And all the scanner ships, all the cloaky ships, the recon that can fit a cyno, the T2 BS that can apply ewar and DPS, and DPS and MJD for the marauder or covert cyno for the blops. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069/78 "2020-02-05T20:36:32Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > The AFK Orca is a valid concern. And the only valid concern raised. > But that is easily solved by making mining drones 25m and then adjusting their stats to match. Orcas can then only run 2, which means they can’t split drones to afk as long, and have to actually be around to mine. I want to point out this potential solution. I don’t really see any downsides. ---
**Author:** ![Bronson\_Hughes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bronson_hughes/32/189075_2.png) [@Bronson\_Hughes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bronson_Hughes)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 8:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069/79 "2020-02-05T20:51:38Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > > [@Bronson\_Hughes](#): > > > > And when you remove those two groups from consideration, you’re left with Orcas and Rorquals. > > And all the scanner ships, all the cloaky ships, the recon that can fit a cyno, the T2 BS that can apply ewar and DPS, and DPS and MJD for the marauder or covert cyno for the blops. If you’re going to be so pedantic as to count “covert cloak and covert cyno” as different roles for covert ships, “DPS” and “Ewar” as different roles for certain BlOps, or “DPS and MJD” for Marauders, let me refer you to this point that I clearly elaborated on in my original comment: > [@Bronson\_Hughes](#): > > Also, keep in mind that saying each ship _**(meaning the Orca and Rorqual)**_ currently only has three roles is being exceedingly generous. You can only get to that number by lumping “command bursts”, “massively buffed combat drones”, "insane tractor beam capabilities, “powerful mineral scanners”, and “remote shield reps” into “ **mining fleet support** ” for both platforms, and lumping “massive ore capacity” and “ore compression” into “ **ore hauling** ” for the Rorqual. Saying that Orcas and Rorquals _only_ have three roles already assumes that you’re lumping a ton of different bonuses together. If you do away with that, the picture of how many roles they have compared to other non-broken ships does not improve at all. Are you _really_ sure you want to go that route? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069/80 "2020-02-05T21:01:45Z")
> [@Bronson\_Hughes](#): > > Are you _really_ sure you want to go that route? Unrelated. Your argument requires arbitrary filtering to show something that makes no sense. No, the orca and rorquals are not the only ships with several roles. Complaining about that is just stupid. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orca-and-rorq-bring-balance-ccp/210069.md?page=5)