# Orcas should never have been turned into mining vessels **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 8, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526 "2019-10-08T19:08:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 8:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526/339 "2019-10-12T20:45:16Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > > You have not, as far as I can see, anywhere in this entire thread, established that a guy paying 20 accounts to mine in 20 Orcas is _bad for the game_ . > > Luckily you already did so, right here: > > ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/c/4/c4bbf5fb8eb94af3dcc0490ae2396d000c09d779.jpeg) Kezrai\_Charzai: > > > _it is low effort, low engagement, boring gameplay. Yes it does not interact with other people. Yes it basically adds nothing to the game_ Well as usual you missed the point. His 20-Orca multi-box setup adds nothing to the game. _What would removing that option_ **add** to the game? Nothing. It won’t bring in more active players. It won’t turn him into an active player. As said, all it accomplishes is even fewer players and less income for CCP. > [@Xuixien](#): > > An AFK target sitting in space is much easier to kill than a target that is actively engaged with the client. WTF, dude? I believe the point has been made numerous times in the thread that high sec Orcas do not really become a PvP target even if you leave them AFK. Another specious argument. > [@Xuixien](#): > > No one has said mining or Orcas should be eliminated. Calm yourself before you slip into hysterics. Thanks, but that wasn’t a suggestion. It was a “removing this is pointless” comment, but of course you missed that point too. Also, please reference the comments below where you specifically refer to removing this playstyle. > [@Xuixien](#): > > ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/c/4/c4bbf5fb8eb94af3dcc0490ae2396d000c09d779.jpeg) Kezrai\_Charzai: > > > If you eliminated his playstyle tomorrow, all you would accomplish is reducing CCP’s income and player base even further than they already are. > > I’m fine with that, and CCP CEO Hilmar has openly stated that he is also fine with that. > [@Xuixien](#): > > EVE needs more _high quality_ gameplay. I agree. That would come about from _adding_ high quality interaction options and incentives _to_ the game, not by _removing_ boring/low interaction options. > [@Xuixien](#): > > ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/c/4/c4bbf5fb8eb94af3dcc0490ae2396d000c09d779.jpeg) Kezrai\_Charzai: > > > However you have not established how a player paying 20 subs to CCP so he can mine with 20 accounts that he trained into 20 Orcas with (all paid activity) is bad for the game. > > I don’t have to, because I never made that claim. > [@Xuixien](#): > > The problem is AFK mining is low-engagement, low-effort, low-attention gameplay. CCP, and the community, want to start moving away from this type of gameplay. > > So you have two choices: Get on board or get left behind. Sure sounds like removing a playstyle is the idea. Are you all for removing it because it’s _good_ for the game? At what point did you get promoted to speaking for the community? If you have some sort of authorization or approval from ‘the community’ for this, do let us know. I’m pretty sure you never checked with me, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526/340 "2019-10-12T20:53:44Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > At what point did you get promoted to speaking for the community? It was offered in his birthday box with his degree in basic bullsh¡t. > [@Von\_Roshi](#): > > And finally the fact that his mining rate is only slightly slower than a Mackinkaw is no problem at all. It’s not. Again, check your facts. You are lying again. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526/341 "2019-10-12T20:55:49Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > Nah man Procurers all the way. Dying wastes time and time is money. We, Pedro and me, exclusively mine in Covetors and Hulks, because everything else is a waste of time when you’re not playing afk anyway. Also it pisses off those who use lower yield ships when you start mining their roids faster than they can. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526/342 "2019-10-12T20:56:27Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Nothing. It won’t bring in more active players. It won’t turn him into an active player. As said, all it accomplishes is even fewer players and less income for CCP. Yes yes, we’ve all heard this “CCP is our economic hostage”/appeal to financial consequences argument before. Luckily CCP is not going for it. So good on them. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > I believe the point has been made numerous times in the thread that high sec Orcas do not really become a PvP target even if you leave them AFK. Another specious argument. The specious argument is your’s, then. Clearly this line of argumentation from you was just a bait and switch, as I do not recall even a single time advocating for any change that would make Orcas easier to PvP. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > That would come about from _adding_ high quality interaction options and incentives _to_ the game, not by _removing_ boring/low interaction options. It could, and it could _also_ come from making small, easy changes to low-attention, low-effort, low-engagement gameplay that you admit adds nothing to the game. It’s easier to change something small than it is to add something completely new to the game. Your reasoning would further create “development debt” that would just add more balance problems with the game. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > > ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/c/4/c4bbf5fb8eb94af3dcc0490ae2396d000c09d779.jpeg) Kezrai\_Charzai: > > > > > However you have not established how a player paying 20 subs to CCP so he can mine with 20 accounts that he trained into 20 Orcas with (all paid activity) is bad for the game. > > > > I don’t have to, because I never made that claim. > > ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/3/2/32423e6746232af7d965dc90892ccbddffb47de5.jpeg) Xuixien: > > > The problem is AFK mining is low-engagement, low-effort, low-attention gameplay. CCP, and the community, want to start moving away from this type of gameplay. > > > > So you have two choices: Get on board or get left behind. > > Sure sounds like removing a playstyle is the idea. Are you all for removing it because it’s _good_ for the game? Learn to read. The statement you’re attributing to me (“a player paying 20 subs is bad for the game”) does not match what I actually said (“AFK mining is low engagement, low-effort, low-attention gameplay”). Thx for playing. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526/343 "2019-10-12T20:58:09Z")
I sincerely hope your mining permits are in order! I’d hate to gank one of your Hulks and then find out it was you, and feel bad enough that I’d end up reimbursing it. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526/346 "2019-10-12T21:03:41Z")
Yes I know. It’s a certain someone who doesn’t exist. Do you have agility rigs on your barges? ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526/347 "2019-10-12T21:08:29Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > Do you have agility rigs on your barges? No, that’d not be helpful! 🙂 That’ll give you something to think about! \*_snickers\*_ _(it’s really not rocket science, but I’d rather want you to have something to tinker about instead of just outright telling you how it works 🙂)_ If everyone could see who flagged whom, Anderson would stop this pretty quickly, I’d say. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526/348 "2019-10-12T21:09:55Z")
> [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > No, that’d not be helpful! 🙂 > > That’ll give you something to think about! \* _snickers_\* > > _(it’s really not rocket science, but I’d rather want you to have something to tinker about instead of just outright telling you how it works 🙂)_ Well unless you’re pre-aligned and/or webbing eachother with an active duel. Oh hey! I just thought of something. > [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > If everyone could see who flagged whom, > Anderson would stop this pretty quickly, I’d say. 🙂 Who? ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 9:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526/350 "2019-10-12T21:14:56Z")
Oh awesome. I look forward to it. I do so miss my days in Rens and Hek, watching your -10 flashy Thrasher warping from ping to ping and then seeing some poor soul carrying his entire BPO library in a shuttle explode. Right before you Thrasher blew up. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526/351 "2019-10-12T21:16:19Z")
You were there? Yay! 😊 I don’t remember a “library of BPOs”. 🙂 I miss Hek too. It’s so ■■■■■■■ dead. Btw, I’ll be deleting my posts afterwards, because they’re horribly off topic. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526/352 "2019-10-12T21:25:55Z")
So’s Dodixie. Jita is too crowded for me. Amarr is where it’s at. ---
**Author:** ![Pix\_Severus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pix_severus/32/394032_2.png) [@Pix\_Severus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pix_Severus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526/353 "2019-10-12T21:31:47Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > There are several COSMOS sites in Kador region (the pentagram of 0.5 systems). They are permafarmed by same guy over a 2 years by now. I mean, he was there every day from DT to DT farming with drones and several MTUs 2 years ago, when I returned to eve he was still there (though not sure if the same character/player as I did write down the person, but someone is definitely permafarming it. Wanted to go there and shoot his MTUs but it is locked on some key so I gave up. The Labyrinth? I remember passing through Aphi a couple of years back while on an MTU hunt, and seeing an ungodly amount of MTUs behind a locked gate. I almost bought the key for the site off contracts, but there were a plethora of ungated MTUs in the region, and I’m lazy, so I just went for those instead. I might pay that system another visit when/if I come back to EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Becham](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/becham/32/327010_2.png) [@Becham](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Becham)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526/354 "2019-10-12T21:32:08Z")
CCPlease make everyone play in a way that suits me. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526/355 "2019-10-12T21:34:47Z")
give me your wish and I will double it 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526/356 "2019-10-12T21:40:15Z")
Hey, I never see you in your channel! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![zazzmatazz\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zazzmatazz_xu/32/451037_2.png) [@zazzmatazz\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zazzmatazz_Xu)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 9:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526/357 "2019-10-12T21:43:19Z")
> [@Compo](#): > > except literal people like yourself, you sir can’t different between reality and a game So on one hand you say I’m being literal Literal: “taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor” And the word you are trying to convey is “differentiate” rather then different. “Between reality and a game” you recognize that if I was being literal then by default I am following the posts and following the reality of what someone put forth, so no. What am I missing here, the op has stated his case for nerfing a part of the gameplay and instead of giving a rage post I stated my opinion, how is this delusional, then you add a picture of how you imagine me to be, I’d say you went off track more then I ever could have ever done. ---
**Author:** ![Pix\_Severus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pix_severus/32/394032_2.png) [@Pix\_Severus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pix_Severus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 9:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526/358 "2019-10-12T21:45:05Z")
Because I’m not there. 🙂 I’m currently playing some other games, I might get back into EVE later this year. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 9:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526/359 "2019-10-12T21:46:53Z")
> [@Pix\_Severus](#): > > Because I’m not there. It’d be awesome to have you around again! 😃 And apparently I’m back! 😃 Pedro and I have a whole list of content and experiments ahead of us and I might have gotten Hengle on board, too! 😃 If you ever plan on checking on that site, feel free to give me a call in advance! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Pix\_Severus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pix_severus/32/394032_2.png) [@Pix\_Severus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pix_Severus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 9:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526/360 "2019-10-12T21:50:20Z")
When I get back into EVE, you’ll be the first one I call. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526/361 "2019-10-12T21:51:24Z")
Thanks! 🙂 You take care, I’ll head to bed. 🙂 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526.md?page=16) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/orcas-should-never-have-been-turned-into-mining-vessels/194526.md?page=18)