# Outrage in the Veterans Community **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [December 13, 2021, 6:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/outrage-in-the-veterans-community/341616 "2021-12-13T18:49:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/outrage-in-the-veterans-community/341616/21 "2021-12-14T18:54:14Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > These are the questions we each must answer, and the questions our governments also are answering. > > I believe the opinion of _my_ government can so far be summarized by this meme: I am not saying I don’t shoot Trigs either! They are enemies of the State and I consider them as targets of opportunity. It’s just I don’t start active campaigns against them until the Federation is destroyed. Of course if the State will order me to invade Pochven to liberate illegally occupied by these invaders State systems (even before we eliminate gallenteans) I will do that, after all - even if I am a commander with prerogative to choose deployments as I see fit to be more profitable to the State, I am still a soldier who is subordinate to Caldari State authorities. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/outrage-in-the-veterans-community/341616/22 "2021-12-14T18:54:56Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > It’s just I don’t start active campaigns against them until the Federation is destroyed. Of course if the State will order me to invade Pochven to liberate illegally occupied by these invaders State systems (even before we eliminate gallenteans) I will do that, after all - even if I am a commander with prerogative to choose deployments as I see fit to be more profitable to the State, I am still a soldier who is subordinate to Caldari State authorities. And that is an entirely valid choice based on your loyalties. ---
**Author:** ![Sahara\_Jackal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sahara_jackal/32/296697_2.png) [@Sahara\_Jackal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sahara_Jackal)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 10:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/outrage-in-the-veterans-community/341616/23 "2021-12-14T22:22:13Z")
Diana, you’re wasting your time debating with Elsebeth (and the rest of her Lux Invicta cabal). Her political beliefs are _situational_. **The Minmatar Republic is under dire threat from the Amarr Empire! The war has been going on for 700 years and cost countless billions of lives! . . .** Except a 1-year invasion that cost the Minmatar two star systems is SUPER DUPER HUGE and a tragedy totally equal to the 700+ year war whenever the Triglavians come up in conversation. Forget the billions of slaves in the Amarr Empire, _won’t anyone think of the baseliners in Pochven?!?_ **Amarrian loyalists are scum!! . . .** Unless there’s an opportunity for Electus Matari and LUMEN to have a great big hugfest together under a flimsy EDENCOM banner! Snuggle up around the Smokey bonfire, Mary Friends! **Triglavians are the biggest threat to the cluster, EVER!** Bury your head deep in the sand and don’t think about the Anoikis holes punched in the fabric of reality, or the malignant Drifter hordes only barely held at bay by a triangular bulwark. Don’t deviate from the talking points, sisters! It just won’t do if people start thinking about how the Triglavian Collective acts out of _necessity_ while the Empires act out of _greed._ You’ll never make headway against that much hypocrisy and blindness. ---
**Author:** ![Arsia\_Elkin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arsia_elkin/32/388703_2.png) [@Arsia\_Elkin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arsia_Elkin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 10:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/outrage-in-the-veterans-community/341616/24 "2021-12-14T22:34:27Z")
> [@Sahara\_Jackal](#): > > Except a 1-year invasion that cost the Minmatar two star systems is SUPER DUPER HUGE and a tragedy totally equal to the 700+ year war whenever the Triglavians come up in conversation. Forget the billions of slaves in the Amarr Empire, _won’t anyone think of the baseliners in Pochven?!?_ Nobody’s ever said that. Overall relations between the empires has not improved. They’re just, once again coordinating against an external threat. You act as though CONCORD does not exist. > [@Sahara\_Jackal](#): > > Unless there’s an opportunity for Electus Matari and LUMEN to have a great big hugfest together under a flimsy EDENCOM banner! Snuggle up around the Smokey bonfire, Mary Friends! Once again a misrepresentation. The alliances are still red to one another. Us, and our empires have a mutual interest in defeating the external invaders and are working together through the CONCORD subfaction, EDENCOM. Once again, some cooperation through CONCORD, like has happened since its inception does not change our opinions on one another’s empires. > [@Sahara\_Jackal](#): > > Bury your head deep in the sand and don’t think about the Anoikis holes punched in the fabric of reality, or the malignant Drifter hordes only barely held at bay by a triangular bulwark. Don’t deviate from the talking points, sisters! It just won’t do if people start thinking about how the Triglavian Collective acts out of _necessity_ while the Empires act out of _greed._ Many of the people on the EDENCOM side have and continue to _also_ fight sleepers, Drifters, Sansha, and other threats to the safety and security of us all. People have individual opinions on who is or isn’t the most dangerous, but few object to fighting Drifters. Even as somebody who views the Triglavians as more dangerous, I’ve been regularly engaging sleepers and Drifters for some time. I suspect my breath is wasted in this response, but here it is. ---
**Author:** ![Mikal\_Vektor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mikal_vektor/32/267041_2.png) [@Mikal\_Vektor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mikal_Vektor)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 7:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/outrage-in-the-veterans-community/341616/25 "2021-12-15T07:19:37Z")
> [@Arsia\_Elkin](#): > > > [@Sahara\_Jackal](#): > > > > Unless there’s an opportunity for Electus Matari and LUMEN to have a great big hugfest together under a flimsy EDENCOM banner! Snuggle up around the Smokey bonfire, Mary Friends! > > Once again a misrepresentation. The alliances are still red to one another. I have heard this explanation before. It makes as much sense to me now, as it did then: none. The friend-or-foe standings system is a mechanism to help capsuleers identify known friends and enemies, not some antidote to the charges of heretical collusion and corruption of LUMEN by EM. Despite claims to the contrary, LUMEN pilots have, are, and will likely continue to fly alongside and under the command (or polite request apparently?) of EM. Assurances of mutually red standings, anxiously jittered from LUMEN pilots, _flying in an EM fleet_ is a bit like a warrior radioing that they’ve got the enemy pinned down with one hand, while playfully cuffing their giggling, half-dressed would-be foe to the bed in tender foreplay with the other. Pinned down indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 9:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/outrage-in-the-veterans-community/341616/26 "2021-12-15T09:33:33Z")
> [@Mikal\_Vektor](#): > > It makes as much sense to me now, as it did then: none. Yes, but considering you thought that claims of perpetrating a planetary biological catastrophe from a single, barely-armed orbital platform made sense, maybe you should re-evaluate whether or not your judgment on such things should really be trusted. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/outrage-in-the-veterans-community/341616/27 "2021-12-15T19:57:33Z")
Insensitive flippancy towards Imperial veterans of wars against both rebels and invaders seems to be the norm amongst Amarr capsuleers today. What a sad state of affairs. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2022, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/outrage-in-the-veterans-community/341616/28 "2022-03-15T19:57:50Z")
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