# Peace in our time **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2019, 7:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244 "2019-09-07T07:23:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 10:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244/21 "2019-09-08T10:48:14Z")
Having lived among and fought beside the Minmatar, I have come to the conclusion that they would benefit greatly from the discipline and structure that would be imposed upon them by a Reclaiming, as the Ni-Kunni have. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 10:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244/22 "2019-09-08T10:50:26Z")
You are not helping. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 11:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244/23 "2019-09-08T11:01:02Z")
I genuinely mean it. Prosperity was brought to the Khanid and Ni-Kunni by allying themselves to the Holy Amarr Empire. The Minmatar rebelled and regained their “freedom”, but for what? You have the highest suicide and crime rates in the cluster, the highest poverty and communicable disease rates, many of your planets are environmental disasters, and your people are emigrating in droves to the Gallente Federation or the fringes of traversible space. Your government is a mess and full of tribal squabbling and in-fighting, you have disgusting levels of police brutality, and you have no respect for authority or civil society - remember when the Minmatar attacked and destroyed a CONCORD outpost, killing thousands? No, the Minmatar would benefit greatly from falling under the dominion of the Amarr. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 11:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244/24 "2019-09-08T11:05:51Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > I genuinely mean it. I know you genuinely meant it. I think you fail to understand though that the one thing that most definitely makes lasting peace in our time impossible is the Minmatar belief that no matter how much _some_ Amarr talk about peace, there will _always_ be those who will simply go for “let’s conquer them and be done with it”. This means that from our - that is, the Minmatar - point of view any peace is temporary, and that means any peace is _strategic_ in nature. And currently, unfortunately, unlike say 20 years ago, the situation is such that if we are to have a hot war anyway, _strategically_ we would be better off escalating as soon as possible. So while your opinion is well-meant, it is also, in effect, a pro-war one. ---
**Author:** ![Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veikitamo_gesakaarin/32/314638_2.png) [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veikitamo_Gesakaarin)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244/25 "2019-09-08T11:07:04Z")
Peace is one of those situations where the sides involved in conflict have to settle for less than what is desired. Of course, who wants to settle for less? That’s what war is for! Then usually after enough blood and life lost it ends up with settling for less. Such follies we can embark on, however, it seems to me not enough death and destruction for peace to reign yet. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 11:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244/26 "2019-09-08T11:08:45Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > So while your opinion is well-meant, it is also, in effect, a pro-war one. Not if the Minmatar surrender willingly. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 11:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244/27 "2019-09-08T11:13:11Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > Not if the Minmatar surrender willingly. But that will not happen. You might think it would be wise, and wish it to happen, but I think it is pretty clear after the past 1000 or so years that it will not happen. Just like if the Amarr said that military Reclaiming is off the table, it would be a question of time only when it was back on it, it would also simply be a question of time until the next Great Rebellion if our government decided to surrender now. And I guess in our case it would be a very, very short time, because I doubt many of us would accept those orders as legal. (I mean, they won’t, so Shakorites need not get indignant, I am not implying anything here. Just hypothetically, _even if they did_, it would not bring peace.) ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 11:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244/28 "2019-09-08T11:17:54Z")
Perhaps peace is just not in the psychophysiological makeup of the Minmatar. When you’re not committing terrorist attacks on innocent Amarrian civilians or blowing up CONCORD stations, you’re murdering and raping each other en masse. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 11:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244/29 "2019-09-08T11:20:20Z")
And here I thought for a moment I was having a reasonable discussion with an educated person. See, @Aldrith_Shutaq - this is why we cannot have nice things. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 11:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244/30 "2019-09-08T11:21:50Z")
Resorting to insults I see. Maybe that’s why the Minmatar can’t have nice things. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244/31 "2019-09-08T11:25:24Z")
Don’t look at me. I’ve already told you those who actually wish to invade are a minority in the leadership castes. Of course, plenty of commoners think we can win, but they do not exactly matter, do they? ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244/32 "2019-09-08T11:25:33Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > Resorting to insults I see. With respect, you started the insults with your “murdering and raping each other”. Violence rates are not any higher in the Republic than they are elsewhere - if you take into account the violence inherent in keeping slaves, they are probably much, much lower than in the Empire, though of course hard to say because you people do not even bother to keep books on that stuff, but consider it _normal_ to beat people if they do not work for you or force them into your beds just because you happened to be born a lordling. According to historians, one of the reasons the Amarr conquered us in the first place was that as a civilization that had managed to in practice end intra-tribal warfare and so was almost completely unprepared to the barbarism of full-out war. If we are uncivilized enough now to wage war, it is because _you taught us to be_. And now you want to solve it by _more of the same_? ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 11:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244/33 "2019-09-08T11:27:42Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > Of course, plenty of commoners think we can win, but they do not exactly matter, do they? They _do_ matter for the problem I described above; this kind of talk proves (or “proves”) the fact that no matter what whoever is in power now says, the pro-conquest mindset will always be there, and will have to be accounted for in any plans we make, because as long as it is there, it might seize power any time. We do not have the luxury an Amarr noble has to dismiss it as “just talk”. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 11:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244/34 "2019-09-08T11:31:31Z")
Strange, you seem to have mistook me for an Amarrian. Last I checked, Caldari Navy testing confirmed my heritage is 100% Achuran. This is a matter of public record. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 11:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244/35 "2019-09-08T11:33:39Z")
Empty rhetoric. Look to the Empire’s actions for the true attitude. Not a single offensive act against the Republic since the Yulai Accords were signed. Yes, I am aware of small-scale illegal slaving, and I do not count them in the same way I do not count small-scale Minmatar raiding in the Empire. It happens, but is under control. Meanwhile, on the Minmatar side we’ve had the Vindication Wars, Defiants, Elder Fleet, a few major acts of terror and concerted aid to rebellions in our territory. The next step towards a lasting peace lies in Minmatar hands, yet these incidents seem to just keep happening. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 11:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244/36 "2019-09-08T11:33:59Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > Strange, you seem to have mistook me for an Amarrian. Last I checked, Caldari Navy testing confirmed my heritage is 100% Achuran. This is a matter of public record. I apologize for the assumption. You speak like one. ---
**Author:** ![Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veikitamo_gesakaarin/32/314638_2.png) [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veikitamo_Gesakaarin)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 11:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244/37 "2019-09-08T11:38:33Z")
Achurans seem to really have a thing for supporting the Empire and outward displays of racism on the IGS. It’s really weird. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 11:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244/38 "2019-09-08T11:42:23Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > Empty rhetoric. Look to the Empire’s actions for the true attitude. Not a single offensive act against the Republic since the Yulai Accords were signed. You provided the answer yourself: > [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > Vindication Wars It’s because the Empire fought the war by proxy. Why expend Imperial lives, when you can pit former brothers and sisters against each other? ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 11:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244/39 "2019-09-08T11:43:04Z")
I support the Caldari State and it’s allies. This is my prerogative as an independent capsuleer. As far as racism, I deny such aspersions. The Minmatar are not a heterogeneous group. They are a “nation” (for lack of a better term) comprised of many squabbling tribal identities. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 11:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244/40 "2019-09-08T11:43:27Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > since the Yulai Accords were signed You do not really seem to understand my point. But I guess it does not matter, in the grand scheme of things. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/peace-in-our-time/188244.md?page=3)