# Pi market is dead **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 23, 2020, 9:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430 "2020-11-23T21:11:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kebast\_Silvermoon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kebast_silvermoon/32/244544_2.png) [@Kebast\_Silvermoon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kebast_Silvermoon)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 12:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430/63 "2020-12-01T00:33:29Z")
I’ve noticed quite a drop in price over the last few months. Oh well, it’s still free money right? ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 12:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430/64 "2020-12-01T00:46:07Z")
You are being facetious yes? ---
**Author:** ![Lloyd\_Roses](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lloyd_roses/32/244283_2.png) [@Lloyd\_Roses](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lloyd_Roses)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 12:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430/65 "2020-12-01T00:51:56Z")
I’d be cool if extraction amounts and factory speeds were nerfed drastically. Depending on the setup, this is still completely broken monies per click. (Running weekly cycles or so) Also, PI in highsec? ---
**Author:** ![Sateen\_von\_Jager](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sateen_von_jager/32/237146_2.png) [@Sateen\_von\_Jager](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sateen_von_Jager)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 4:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430/66 "2020-12-01T16:54:55Z")
LMAO!!! ---
**Author:** ![Brewlar\_Kuvakei](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brewlar_kuvakei/32/422694_2.png) [@Brewlar\_Kuvakei](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brewlar_Kuvakei)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 5:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430/67 "2020-12-01T17:52:03Z")
About 350, yeah you are not wrong but the gaping whole left is/was Dust. Remember Dust? It was that Golden Eye clone 15 years too late & without the charm, ok lets be fair Halo 1 xbox clone. The best bit about Dust was Mint Chip, there was nothing she would not do to put a smile on eve players, NOTHING. We are but motes of dust. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 7:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430/68 "2020-12-01T19:24:41Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Poor structure balancing starting to show, please carry on. Or too many materials coming from almost risk free and passive income. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 5:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430/69 "2020-12-02T05:28:19Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Or too many materials coming from almost risk free and passive income. Wait, you mean suddenly it has become a problem…even though it has been roughly the same for how long? ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430/70 "2020-12-02T11:25:19Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Wait, you mean suddenly it has become a problem…even though it has been roughly the same for how long? You could say the same for bounties. Maybe it was always a problem. It was always very easy and always passive. And the demand for materials is less than before. Not only from citadels, but I’m guessing there are fewer of the old POS’s than in 2010 too. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 5:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430/71 "2020-12-02T17:56:38Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > You could say the same for bounties. > > Maybe it was always a problem. It was always very easy and always passive. > > And the demand for materials is less than before. Not only from citadels, but I’m guessing there are fewer of the old POS’s than in 2010 too. This is kind of a non-sequitur… So suddenly POS and citadels became less of a thing in August of this year? Okay, why? That is when the price started dropping. The complaint in the OP isn’t that PI is low relative to 10 years ago, but is dropping relative to this past August and is continuing to drop. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 6:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430/72 "2020-12-02T18:56:49Z")
@Dracvlad suggests the price fall is a problem with demand. But it’s a problem with supply too. Now since CCP wanted there to be fewer structures, the drop in demand is intended. So if PI prices are an indication of anything, it’s that supply is higher than we now need. It’s a low risk and passive income anyways. Whos gonna complain that much if it gets nerfed? The same people that complained about minerals? Nullbears? Boo hoo. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 7:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430/73 "2020-12-02T19:18:07Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Now since CCP wanted there to be fewer structures, the drop in demand is intended. Again…kind of a non-squitur. _Is_ there a drop in number of structures? > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > So if PI prices are an indication of anything, it’s that supply is higher than we now need. What is your basis for this? You seem to just be reasoning from a price change with both supply and demand moving around. That is why is the supply curve shifting (vs. moving along the supply curve as demand changes if it indeed has). ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 7:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430/74 "2020-12-02T19:26:49Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > _Is_ there a drop in number of structures? I believe so yes. Where i travel there is objectively fewer structures. There’s no reason to think the rest of space would be different. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > What is your basis for this? You seem to just be reasoning from a price change with both supply and demand moving around. The same basis @Dracvlad had for his comment. He is, afterall, who i originally replied to. I’m simply offering an alternate explanation. Edit- Actually, it’s the same explanation. Only from an alternate perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 7:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430/75 "2020-12-02T19:53:16Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > I believe so yes. Starting sharply in August and continuing? That is what we see in the price, starting in August of this year the price started dropping. I am skeptical this unless it is say the war down in the southwest. Fountain had its structures burnt to the ground. Lots of structures died in Querious and Period Basis too. But at the same time, supply from those regions would also be negatively impacted. No stations out of which to base makes doing PI in those regions rather problematic. And during an active war. It seems like a rather large effect for just the war. Maybe it is the whole citadel core thing. Maybe that cost has lead many players to just throw in the towel and take down their structures. Have structure prices dropped? Structures and PI materials are largely compliments, a drop in demand for one should have a similar effect in the other (I am going to check myself soon™). ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430/76 "2020-12-02T19:59:24Z")
Could be the core concept. Below is a graph of the price of a fortizar in Jita. The price starts dropping in September. Given lags and such this could be it, I suppose. The irony of this. So CCP is worried about income inequality and the “rich getting richer” and so they want to nerf things to address this. Is this nerf going to help poor/new players or hurt them? This is what you get when using simple(ton) logic in a complex system. Now PI is getting hit. Do poor/new(ish) players use PI to build up wealth in game? If so, they just got a big \*\*\*\* you from CCP. Edit: And it looks like it is the medium structures that are seeing price declines whereas the smaller structures are not as much which suggests there is a substitution effect going on. People switch to the smaller structures. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/c/a/ca842acfd866ecac3b503c922f4bb8712a859736.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430/77 "2020-12-02T20:29:34Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Starting sharply in August and continuing? The demand for them yes. Quantum core dev blog was Sept 1st. I expect that had a lasting effect on demand. But it’s as much a supply thing as it is demand. And since PI is passive and low risk, it may be appropriate to nerf it anyways. That’s assuming low prices of PI products is a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430/78 "2020-12-02T20:36:03Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > That’s assuming low prices of PI products is a problem. It depends. If it is something that newer players get into to build wealth, then from CCP’s goal of addressing income/wealth inequality this is indeed a problem. If not, then not so much. Otherwise, meh…okay prices are dropping. Happens all the time. Personally I’d laugh if it actually goes against CCP’s stated goals. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 9:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430/79 "2020-12-02T21:20:03Z")
One problem i see is that there is no reason NOT to do PI. Even with prices in the toilet, it’s passive, it’s low risk and running costs are next to nothing. So prices will continue to go down and down. Perhaps it needs a big change. To not be passive. Or moved to a structure based extraction. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 9:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430/80 "2020-12-02T21:53:48Z")
I aint as smart as you fellers, but buildin’ stuff is sexier than minin’ stuff out of the dirt. So cheaper PI is better fer wagon wheelwrights, in so far as I see it, yalls. ---
**Author:** ![Andresoni\_Janau](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andresoni_janau/32/240452_2.png) [@Andresoni\_Janau](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andresoni_Janau)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 9:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430/81 "2020-12-02T21:56:33Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > There’s not even an apparent volume change in the consumption of Robotics, the price just literally dropped. > > How hard is it to coordinate with big producers and say _THIS_ is the price floor? OPEC does it for oil… There is no price floor for bots and afk networks. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 2:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430/82 "2020-12-03T02:15:48Z")
It is a PITA. And the lower the price goes the less attractive it becomes. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pi-market-is-dead/281430.md?page=5)