# PIE: Complaint Against Maria Daphiti **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [December 4, 2017, 12:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349 "2017-12-04T12:44:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mitara\_Newelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitara_newelle/32/384431_2.png) [@Mitara\_Newelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitara_Newelle)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349/61 "2017-12-05T16:24:54Z")
> [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > They are my people As I highly doubt you consider yourself Amarr, no they are not. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349/62 "2017-12-05T16:26:31Z")
> [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > Nuh uh. Yuh huh! ---
**Author:** ![Mitara\_Newelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitara_newelle/32/384431_2.png) [@Mitara\_Newelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitara_Newelle)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 4:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349/63 "2017-12-05T16:32:49Z")
> [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > They are free and unbound by you, so not exactly the highest priority Of course. This is the crux of it isn’t it? You are _so concerned_ about the welfare of **Minmatar** people it’s not worth your time worrying about a place where murder and disease are the norm of the day. No, your time is better spent frothing on about that slaves exist, regardless that their lives are considerably better than these ‘Outcasts’ ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349/64 "2017-12-05T16:41:03Z")
I was one of them. I have seen your breeding facilities. I left _limbs_ behind in your Empire. In every batch of freed slaves, I see people broken and damaged. I see minds, spirits and bodies afflicted by your barbaric ways. No, girl. “Considerably better”? Then you haven’t seen much of your own Empire, have you? ---
**Author:** ![Serena\_Shi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/serena_shi/32/101503_2.png) [@Serena\_Shi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Serena_Shi)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 4:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349/65 "2017-12-05T16:44:08Z")
> [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > No, Ms Shi, The Butcher’s actions were that of his own carnal desires. He went out of his way to approach Captain Daphiti, a woman below his station by his accounts, a woman who has made it known she despises him, and a woman who The Butcher has previously pursued in a vain attempt to court. I see. Thank you for clarifying this, Lady Newelle. ---
**Author:** ![Mitara\_Newelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitara_newelle/32/384431_2.png) [@Mitara\_Newelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitara_Newelle)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349/66 "2017-12-05T16:50:55Z")
You see only what you wish to see. I at least acknowledge that there are Holders who, quite frankly, should not be. I live and work within the Empire, and have done so for a vast majority of my life, from the fringe systems of Aridia to the Core Worlds. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349/67 "2017-12-05T19:50:13Z")
Of course there are exceptions to all the things both of us throw at each other. You know well that the outcasts are hardly representative of life in the Tribes. I know full well that the breeding facilities and my personal experience is hardly the norm. However, there _is_ no system of slavery that does not inherently enable horrifying abuse _and it remains perfectly legal and even enshrined in scripture_. There is no cure for this. You can try to deal with the breeder facilities. You can try to censure and play whack-a-holder with abusive holders. You can do this for as long and as much as you want, but it won’t work because it _is_ legal and it _is_ enshrined in scripture, and _even if you manage to deal with both of those it’ll still just keep happening._ Because as we all know slaver raids in the Republic space are illegal and yet… here we are. It’s scratching at symptoms, very occasionally soothing one or two while another pops up in its place. Because it’s not the symptoms that need treating. It’s the underlying disease, the cancer that is rotting in the heart of the Empire and harming your nation as badly as it harms those it abuses. There is no cure, until that entire cancer is cut out. … of course, as long as so many like you benefit from the status quo, that’s never going to change, is it? ---
**Author:** ![Mitara\_Newelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitara_newelle/32/384431_2.png) [@Mitara\_Newelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitara_Newelle)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349/68 "2017-12-05T20:37:03Z")
> [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > However, there is no system of slavery that does not inherently enable horrifying abuse and it remains perfectly legal and even enshrined in scripture There is no Voluval that does not create Outcasts. Should your time not be better spent helping those, in theory, that you could - those Outcasts? The slaves of Amarr are no longer your concern. See to your own. My God, it’s like my neighbor is yelling across the street that she does not like how I am schooling my children while her own are killing each other and dying of sickness right behind her. > [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > Because as we all know slaver raids in the Republic space are illegal and yet… here we are. We all know that murder and theft are illegal and yet… it happens. This is non-point. > [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > of course, as long as so many like you benefit from the status quo, that’s never going to change, is it? What benefit do you seem to think I gain, outside of fulfilling The Word? As has been pointed out numerous times keeping slaves is _expensive_, paid labor is much more economical. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349/69 "2017-12-05T20:43:30Z")
> [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > There is no Voluval that does not create Outcasts. Should your time not be better spent helping those, in theory, that you could - those Outcasts? The slaves of Amarr are no longer your concern. See to your own. My God, it’s like my neighbor is yelling across the street that she does not like how I am schooling my children while her own are killing each other and dying of sickness right behind her. What makes those Outcasts my own more than the people I was born and raised among? I _am_ of the Empire. My kin is in the Empire. My upbringing was in the Empire. The ones in bondage there are my people, to a degree someone proclaiming _ownership_ of them can’t get anywhere close to. If you are so worried about the Outcasts - of course you’re not, you’re trying some poor distractions and whataboutism - feel free to go help them if you wish. I have my people, the Gripdjur clan and the Sebiestor tribe and those still languishing in the Empire to worry about. > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > We all know that murder and theft are illegal and yet… it happens. This is non-point. Out of context, certainly. Try again with the rest of it. > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > What benefit do you seem to think I gain, outside of fulfilling The Word? As has been pointed out numerous times keeping slaves is expensive, paid labor is much more economical. Power mongering is indeed expensive, but it’s hardly an oddity for people in power expending significant amounts of money to remain there and maintaining the status quo. You gain status and _maintain_ your wealth and control. I suspect this would be far from a certainty without your lash. ---
**Author:** ![Mitara\_Newelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitara_newelle/32/384431_2.png) [@Mitara\_Newelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitara_Newelle)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 9:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349/70 "2017-12-05T21:06:49Z")
> [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > I am of the Empire. My kin is in the Empire. My upbringing was in the Empire. Yet you act and speak utterly non-Amarr, almost like… like… a Minmatar. > [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > If you are so worried about the Outcasts - of course you’re not In a grand sense, I am indeed, in an immediate sense you are correct. Are you saying that none of the Gripdjur clan or the Sebiestor tribe have ever been marked with something like ‘the pale eye’? I only bring up the Outcasts because they are Minmatar. Most Matari I have heard speak of all other Minmatar as kin. Are they not? If you are only concerned with your ‘kin’ - blood relatives - within the Empire, why not try to find a sympathetic Holder to purchase them and emancipate them? > [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > Out of context, certainly. Try again with the rest of it. I don’t see how. You point to illegal slave raids as some kind indictment. Yes, bad people do bad things. So what? > [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > Power mongering is indeed expensive, but it’s hardly an oddity for people in power expending significant amounts of money to remain there and maintaining the status quo. You gain status and maintain your wealth and control. I suspect this would be far from a certainty without your lash. You may be ‘of the Empire’, but you certainly have no inkling as to it’s workings. If you have status, in this case - title, you have responsibility. I am not a Holder because I own slaves, I own slaves because I am a Holder. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349/71 "2017-12-05T21:19:31Z")
> [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > Yet you act and speak utterly non-Amarr, almost like… like… a Minmatar. Indeed, and the people I seek to free and bring home are Minmatar. > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > If you are only concerned with your ‘kin’ - blood relatives - within the Empire, why not try to find a sympathetic Holder to purchase them and emancipate them? My kin spans a great deal further than mere bloodlines. Family is in the spirit. And no… paying hostage takers is not an option, unless it is in blood and gunfire. > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > In a grand sense, I am indeed, in an immediate sense you are correct. Are you saying that none of the Gripdjur clan or the Sebiestor tribe have ever been marked with something like ‘the pale eye’? I only bring up the Outcasts because they are Minmatar. Most Matari I have heard speak of all other Minmatar as kin. Are they not? Of course some have been Outcast. Do you however concern yourself much about the well-being of the Clown? Bleeders? Purity of the Throne? Those cast out from your society? > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > I don’t see how. You point to illegal slave raids as some kind indictment. Yes, bad people do bad things. So what? I point to it as an example of the futility it is to play Whack-a-Holder or tinkering with the symptoms, when the underlying cause remains untreated and ever-present. The evils of the Empire has a cure, but it requires removal by the root. Not gently trimming the branches every once in a while. > [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > You may be ‘of the Empire’, but you certainly have no inkling as to it’s workings. If you have status, in this case - title, you have responsibility. I am not a Holder because I own slaves, I own slaves because I am a Holder. Yes yes, and in an ideal illusory world that exists only in imagination, this would in fact be the case. It is, as we both know, not so. Power corrupts. Absolute power… well… You are not blind nor foolish. You can look at the “Holders” of the Empire and I know you can see every loatheworthy abuse of it, every taint of corruption and how it is the _norm_ after all these years. I wonder… can you see it in the mirror yet? ---
**Author:** ![Nauplius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nauplius/32/403015_2.png) [@Nauplius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nauplius)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349/72 "2017-12-05T21:27:07Z")
> [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > He seems to style himself as a Holder from his language. Not only is he a heretic, he is a self-aggrandizing heretic speaking of Lords and Ladies as if he was one. I was born a commoner; however, having cleansed the sins of my line in the blood of slaves, I am as pure as the purest True Amarr and worthy of all deference given such persons. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349/73 "2017-12-05T21:32:39Z")
I’ve killed a few holders too, and got blood on me, does that make me a holder by default? @Nauplius? ---
**Author:** ![Mitara\_Newelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitara_newelle/32/384431_2.png) [@Mitara\_Newelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitara_Newelle)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349/74 "2017-12-05T21:33:20Z")
You are a raging psychopath that brings nothing but disgrace and shame to yourself and any that surround you. ---
**Author:** ![Mitara\_Newelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitara_newelle/32/384431_2.png) [@Mitara\_Newelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitara_Newelle)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349/75 "2017-12-05T21:43:51Z")
The bulk of this conversation is going nowhere. This has me curious however - > [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > Of course some have been Outcast. Do you however concern yourself much about the well-being of the Clown? Bleeders? Purity of the Throne? Those cast out from your society? Are the Outcast the ‘heretics’ of the Minmatar? ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349/76 "2017-12-05T22:34:38Z")
There’s no direct analogy, I’m afraid. You have to understand what the Voluval is first. There’s nothing _magical_ about it. I’m not going to go into the nitty-gritty details, and this is admittedly not fully understood by all but a few select people - and I don’t have access to the inner secrets of the voluval, only a few layers of obscurity in - , but it generally acts like a combined psyche evaluation, genetic screening, and aptitude test. The ritual itself is spiritual in nature, but the effect is reproducible and independently verifiable. Those who end up with Exile marks are _bad news_. Psychopaths. Inveterate liars. Monsters. I don’t agree with the Outcast system being a thing to this day, but it is one that was traditionally necessary. There was no means to cure or treat these issues, and even when there were there may not have been resources needed to expend that kind of effort, without severe detrimental effects to the clan in question. Exile was the last remaining humane option. Today… there’s little excuse. Genetic issues are easily fixed. Psychopathy and all the other ailments of the mind can either be treated or they can be dealt with in other ways that are far more humane. … but Sorrow’s Gash is pretty much proof that those sent there are hardly society builders or someone that merits more attention from me than those still languishing in the Empire. I got out, with the help of those who were like what I am now. I have a duty to honor that. Do bear in mind that the intricacies of the Voluval can fill several volumes, and this is overly simplified, but it should serve for now. ---
**Author:** ![Nauplius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nauplius/32/403015_2.png) [@Nauplius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nauplius)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 11:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349/77 "2017-12-05T23:03:48Z")
I request that you all stop causing my wife distress with your false allegations of perversion against me. ---
**Author:** ![Mitara\_Newelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitara_newelle/32/384431_2.png) [@Mitara\_Newelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitara_Newelle)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 11:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349/78 "2017-12-05T23:28:09Z")
> [@Nauplius](#): > > I request that you all stop causing my wife distress with your false allegations of perversion against me. Your… God help her… wife’s distress is fully warranted. You are a monster, murderer, heretic who profanes the name of Amarr. You sought out inappropriate contact with someone who wants nothing to do with you. This same person is one who you tried - and failed horribly - to gain an intimate relationship with. Nothing I have said is false. ---
**Author:** ![Halcyon\_Ember](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/halcyon_ember/32/131702_2.png) [@Halcyon\_Ember](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Halcyon_Ember)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 10:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349/79 "2017-12-06T10:39:24Z")
Stop being a pervert, we’ll stop calling you one. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 12:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349/80 "2017-12-06T12:35:12Z")
> [@Mitara\_Newelle](#): > > Your… God help her… wife’s distress is fully warranted. You are a monster, murderer, heretic who profanes the name of Amarr. You sought out inappropriate contact with someone who wants nothing to do with you. This same person is one who you tried - and failed horribly - to gain an intimate relationship with. Really, I’m surprised he bothered. I’m sure _someone_ in the cluster has a Maria Daphiti corpse he could purchase. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pie-complaint-against-maria-daphiti/43349.md?page=5)