# Player agency and October Balance Pass **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 16, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652 "2018-10-16T21:47:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 3:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652/41 "2018-10-19T15:14:38Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > If you can’t understand that you will only hurt yourself. In EVE you have the choice of attacking others or not. In those other games your only choice is to go after other players. Again. I am not against ganking and have done it myself. I just don’t see the point of blaming the victim. The victim didn’t choose to get ganked. Undocking in a stupid fit isn’t a conscious choice to get harassed. If you have to blame the victim to feel better about what you’re doing that is on you. Personally I know I am the reason someone else died when I kill them in EVE. I am okay with that. ---
**Author:** ![Predvodnica\_LSG](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/predvodnica_lsg/32/63657_2.png) [@Predvodnica\_LSG](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Predvodnica_LSG)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652/42 "2018-10-19T15:31:07Z")
Why do you all talking about past? Ganking was mistake and will be removed from Eve. Lets talk about future Eve! ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652/43 "2018-10-19T15:32:57Z")
They are not victims, they are simply other players who made an error a misjudgment and lost something. That’s not the fault of the player that took advantage of the situation, that is simply part of the game. There is no victim blaming here, this is a computer game not RL. If you can’t separate that then maybe gaming isn’t the healthiest thing for you. Just saying. ---
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652/44 "2018-10-19T16:51:21Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > There is no victim blaming here, “I choose to gank you so it’s your fault and I am right.” Yeah…not really. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 4:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652/45 "2018-10-19T16:53:04Z")
Why are you even writing if you have no real arguments to share? ---
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652/46 "2018-10-19T16:55:33Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > Why are you even writing if you have no real arguments to share? I could ask you the same thing. I could link all your posts that have to do with ganking in this topic alone that have nothing to do with anything in the October balance pass…or I could just tell you to scroll up… Scroll up. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652/47 "2018-10-19T16:58:26Z")
> [@techzer0](#): > > Scroll up. So you have nothing really to say. ok ---
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652/48 "2018-10-19T17:20:25Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > So you have nothing really to say. ok I didn’t say that. I was responding to your tripe. So you’re saying your off topic posts aren’t worth replying to? Stop making them. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652/49 "2018-10-19T17:26:48Z")
This is getting nowhere. If you blame others for your bad performance in EVE you will not have a lot if fun in the game. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Jenn\_aSide](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jenn_aside/32/384682_2.png) [@Jenn\_aSide](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jenn_aSide)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652/50 "2018-10-19T19:33:17Z")
> [@techzer0](#): > > It is your fault that I mugged you. Shouldn’t have woke up in the morning. > It is your fault that I carjacked you. Shouldn’t have bought that car. > It is your fault that I ##$~@# you. Shouldn’t have dressed like that. This is an example of a deeply ingrained victim mentality. I see it all the time as part of my job is crime prevention awareness. I also saw it when I taught a defensive driving course years ago. People are terribly resistant to the idea that their safety is something they should at least think about. I remember this one (older) lady in particular who took offense when I explained that if you are driving and a car comes up behind you (tailgating) you should move out of its way if and when it’s safe to do so. She said “I drive the speed limit, people need to not speed, why should I have to do something because they are breaking the law!!!” I responded it was because the combination of speed and changing lanes to avoid slower traffic is the combination that causes accidents on the road and can contribute to things like “road rage”. The purpose of defensive driving is to help YOU understand that you can’t control what other drivers you, but you can minimize your exposure to dangerous events and lessen your chance of getting you or your family hurt. She didn’t want to here it. “It’s the bad driver’s fault, they need to not do that”!! Yes it is. **But they aren’t going to stop should you need to protect yourself.** Same from the crime prevention side. Apparently, [this common sense sign](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/wjkAAOSwI2xbhdVT/s-l640.jpg) we put up is “institutionalized victim blaming” according to some damn hippy type guy who saw our roads people putting them up. Protecting yourself in a world (real or virtual) where you know people can be out to get you is smart living. Explaining to people their responsibility to themselves to not be easy meat for others isn’t victim blaming, it’s good advice. ---
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652/51 "2018-10-19T19:42:04Z")
> [@Jenn\_aSide](#): > > Explaining to people their responsibility to themselves to not be easy meat for others isn’t victim blaming, it’s good advice. I agree with that. Until you start saying it is the victims fault they were killed. It isn’t. They could have reduced the risk or avoided it. But they didn’t ask for it. It happened to them. I ganked people. I did it because I wanted to. I ganked people for fun without profit. I wasted battleships, cruisers, and destroyers ganking people and i didn’t even scoop the t1/t2 loot. That doesn’t mean it was their fault. ---
**Author:** ![Jenn\_aSide](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jenn_aside/32/384682_2.png) [@Jenn\_aSide](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jenn_aSide)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652/52 "2018-10-19T19:47:54Z")
> [@techzer0](#): > > But they didn’t ask for it. They did. This is EVE Online. Undocking is literally asking someone to come screw with you in some way, because EVE Online is notorious for this. Understanding this is why this is my biggest loss to ganking in EVE Online to date: > **[Ibis | Jenn aSide | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/47079321/)** > > Jenn aSide (Smokin Aces.) lost their Ibis in Sivala (The Citadel) Total Value: 8,278.10 ISK Just like with my old class, if you want people to be safe teach them their responsibility to themselves. Anti gank people don’t do that, they run to CCP for help. I’ve been a part of 2 high sec ganks. I didn’t much care for it personally. But I can see that the danger it presents gives value to the EVE experience. The anti gank people are so consumed with hate that they can’t see that. Some of them lie to themselves saying “I just want it to be balanced”. ---
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652/53 "2018-10-19T19:49:40Z")
> [@Jenn\_aSide](#): > > They did. I have never seen a mission runner in my 12+ years ask to be ganked. You must play on a different server. ---
**Author:** ![Jenn\_aSide](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jenn_aside/32/384682_2.png) [@Jenn\_aSide](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jenn_aSide)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652/54 "2018-10-19T19:52:26Z")
Asking need not be verbal. Simply being unprepared in a situation where these things happen is enough. It’s like if someone in my neighborhood decided to go outside at 3am in a suit made of stitched together money. No, he didn’t say “beat me down and take my suit please”, but anyone with any sense would never do that where i live. It’s the criminals ‘fault’, but fault doesn’t stop things from happening. It’s better to prevent bad things than scream “IM A VICTIM” afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652/55 "2018-10-19T19:53:26Z")
> [@Jenn\_aSide](#): > > Asking need not be verbal. I know. It would have to be typed. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652/56 "2018-10-19T20:41:26Z")
> [@techzer0](#): > > It would have to be typed It doesn’t need to be typed because it’s implicit. It’s the nature of the game, it’s the marketing of the game, its the game’s reputation and the advice we all give each other. It’s wrapped up best in the 8 golden rules: > [@8 Golden Rules for EVE Online](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/8-golden-rules-for-eve-online/3973): > > [image] These are based on [Akita T’s Golden rules for new players](https://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=588605), originally published on the old forums. Be able to afford a loss Never fly something (or with something in the cargo) you can’t afford to lose. Yes, not even in highsec. Meaning that you should not fly a ship you cannot afford to replace and refit. Consent to PvP You consent to PvP when you click “undock”. You are not safe in 1.0 security space. [CONCORD](https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203208902-CONCORD) is there to punish, not to protect. Get used to the idea. In most case… > [@8 Golden Rules for EVE Online](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/8-golden-rules-for-eve-online/3973/1): > > Consent to PvP > > - You consent to PvP when you click “undock”. > - You are not safe in 1.0 security space. [CONCORD](https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203208902-CONCORD) is there to punish, not to protect. Get used to the idea. > - In most cases, the only way to be 100% safe from aggression inside the game is to be docked in a station. Being cloaked in a secret safespot could work too. Just being in space is acknowledgement enough. ---
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652/57 "2018-10-19T20:58:36Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Just being in space is acknowledgement enough. okay. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652/58 "2018-10-19T22:10:38Z")
Consent is different from requesting. As said. Own your actions. sure the target could have done something but there is always something more a target could have done. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 10:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652/59 "2018-10-19T22:14:15Z")
> [@techzer0](#): > > It is your fault that I mugged you. Shouldn’t have woke up in the morning. > It is your fault that I carjacked you. Shouldn’t have bought that car. > It is your fault that I ##$~@# you. Shouldn’t have dressed like that. Stupid extremes are stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 10:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652/60 "2018-10-19T22:18:26Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Own your actions. I still don’t get what you mean. Should I feel bad because I shot someones spaceship in a spaceship shooting game or something? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-agency-and-october-balance-pass/113652.md?page=4)