# Player Ideas that Don't Completely Suck **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [October 19, 2021, 10:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-ideas-that-dont-completely-suck/333252 "2021-10-19T22:53:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-ideas-that-dont-completely-suck/333252/21 "2021-10-21T14:32:22Z")
I didn’t say they weren’t common, I said they weren’t oppressive. And the disparity is mostly in pilot skill rather than the ship. You don’t find nearly as many new players in faction frigates as t1. But ships like the kestrel, tormentor, or breacher tend to hold their own just fine if the pilots are in the same skill range. (Ability not sp). Again the exception to this is the worm but that’s because ccp decided gurista should be both super tanky, as well as have high dps. Because balance. What would end up happening is that the flow to taking our defending a system would be drastically disruptive. There aren’t enough t1 frigs that scale into a viable fleet that can hold med plexs. But there are several navy and a couple pirate frigs that can unless counters are used. This let’s fights be fluid from novice to medium. When you do end up in a situation where each side is reshipping for each plex you wind up with few fights and just a lot of people sitting in plexs twiddling thumbs. Because it’s better to cap the plex your shipped into rather than risk losing both of them by reshipping to push them out of a different one. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 2:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-ideas-that-dont-completely-suck/333252/22 "2021-10-21T14:35:24Z")
It’s hard to even find a vet that has occasional success against faction frigs in t1 frigs. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-ideas-that-dont-completely-suck/333252/23 "2021-10-21T14:41:39Z")
Kestrels kill comets really well, so do condors. Same with hookbills. Tristan ■■■■ up slicers and firetails. It’s similar with dramials and I almost never see dare devils or sansha frigates used. Faction frigates have a wider endangerment profile but they are a far cry from over powered. If I’m inside the plex worms are about the only things I’ll avoid taking in a kestrel. (And DD but again I almost never see them) when it comes to faction frigates. However Tristan and condors I’m hesitant to engage. Going into a plex you obviously have to be more cautious. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-ideas-that-dont-completely-suck/333252/24 "2021-10-21T14:53:28Z")
> [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](#): > > Kestrels kill comets really well, so do condors. Same with hookbills. Tristan ■■■■ up slicers and firetails. (these are all non-pirate) Now go find some solo kills that demonstrates this. I don’t deny that the right fit tech1 frig won’t beat the occasional faction frig. I’m saying it just **doesn’t happen**. The faction frig pilot knows what counters them and denies the fight. Because pretty much every fight in FW novice is consensual. > [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](#): > > It’s similar with dramials and I almost never see dare devils or sansha frigates used. They are really quite frequent. A glance at their zkill immediately shows multiple engagements in FW space in the last few hours. For **every** ship you just listed. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-ideas-that-dont-completely-suck/333252/25 "2021-10-21T15:06:02Z")
That’s just in fw space, it’s not going to give you a good idea of how they work inside a novice. Outside of a plex they are far more oppressive than inside. That’s why I maid a point about how I have no trouble taking the fights if I’m the one inside the plex. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-ideas-that-dont-completely-suck/333252/26 "2021-10-21T16:28:37Z")
That’s really just deflecting. Why you don’t see them i can’t say. But objectively, they _are_ there. It’s not as if they magically don’t enter novice plexes (yet). ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 1:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-ideas-that-dont-completely-suck/333252/27 "2021-10-22T01:38:33Z")
I think it was what? 25-45% of all novice sized 1v1s were won by T1 frigates? according to the most recent yearbook. Thats not all that out matched when again there are far more less experienced pilots in those vs pirate. But at that is also a hang up a lot of people have when looking at FW is 1v1 balance and just like the rest of eve that’s not a good way to go about it. when you start looking at small gang and fleets the disparity gets even smaller. We have several comps built around T1 frigates even for small plexs that hold their own against similar or even larger gangs of pirate frigates. (though again other than worms we have only seen drams used on a fleet scale) what’s more common by far are the navy frigates particularly the comet. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 10:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-ideas-that-dont-completely-suck/333252/28 "2021-10-23T10:54:57Z")
> [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](#): > > But at that is also a hang up a lot of people have when looking at FW is 1v1 balance and just like the rest of eve that’s not a good way to go about it. If we we’re talking ship balance I’d agree. But we’re talking about novice sites where the vast majority of engagements are 1v1. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 12:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-ideas-that-dont-completely-suck/333252/29 "2021-10-23T12:15:51Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > But we’re talking about novice sites where the vast majority of engagements are 1v1. hardly. you see far more non 1v1 than you see 1v1. this is still eve. even when its just one player against another player one generally is running more than one acc ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 12:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-ideas-that-dont-completely-suck/333252/30 "2021-10-23T12:21:59Z")
98% of novice capable fights in the 24h i looked at were 1v1. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 12:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-ideas-that-dont-completely-suck/333252/31 "2021-10-23T12:49:06Z")
again novice capable does not mean they were in a novice. and how many of those 98% had one party in common farming fits? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2022, 12:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-ideas-that-dont-completely-suck/333252/32 "2022-01-21T12:49:41Z")
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