# Players as Content and the Victim Mindset **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** pvp\ **Created:** [August 11, 2022, 5:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/players-as-content-and-the-victim-mindset/373239 "2022-08-11T05:29:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 70
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2022, 11:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/players-as-content-and-the-victim-mindset/373239/70 "2022-08-12T11:49:57Z")
Just for background because people _do_ insist on getting my viewpoint wrong: - I’m fine with ‘PvP everywhere’, you won’t see me complaining about ganks or unfairness happening to me. - I’m fine with ganking personally, although I have some reservations that the implementation of it in-game is bad for the long-term viability of EVE. - Players being ‘content’ is fine. Again, any reservations I have are because CCP is simply _doing it wrong_. - Yes, there are whiners and perma-greens and Karens and ‘victims’. No, they aren’t a major source of EVE’s current problems, or somehow “driving the design at CCP”. They’re a small portion of the playerbase with almost no feedback mechanism to CCP. A note on ‘ **content** ’: People are starting to use ‘content’ as a stand-in for “target of PvP and destruction”. This is not how “player content” actually works in a sandbox. The players _are_ the content because they’re the market, they’re the supply line, they’re the people you recruit for workers in your corp and and ally with in other corps. They’re the people talking in local and Help and buzzing through gates. They’re the ones paying taxes to your POCO and renting space from/to you. The majority of “players as content” has very little to do with PvP/destruction, but a lot to do with simply being around, **visible and active** in game. That said, on to the points. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > and the need to have some sort of mechanics in place that allow players of different player skill levels and/or character power levels to coexist together (i.e. matchmaking, a flat power curve, and/or what I refer to as “fight or flight mechanics”) > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > Eve is harsh but fair You repeat phrases as if doing so shapes reality, but the truth is that EVE near-completely lacks _any_ balancing mechanisms between new and old players. New players are competing directly against multi-year, multi-account vets from day 1, right in the starter systems. EVE is harsh yes, but it _isn’t_ fair and was never intended to be. The playing field is not level, there’s no way a new player can truly compete and saying “flat power curve” five thousand times won’t change that. Yes, players can start EVE and survive through the stupid gauntlets and challenges and obscurities. They can learn how things work from 3rd party websites (rarely from the game itself). They can join corps and ask people for help and get a leg up. They can eventually find their niche and support their playstyle if they’re very persistent. It’s certainly _possible_ - but the numbers show that fewer and fewer new players are bothering to do so. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > “CCP is setting me up to be other people’s content.” Hello, **Forsaken Fortress** update, anyone? Citadel cores? Blackout? ECM and WCS nerfs? Resistance nerfs? > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > It takes repetitive and boring content, and introduces danger, unpredictability, and excitement. Actually it takes repetitive and boring content, and uses that to trigger even more repetitive and boring content with very brief flashes of interest before you have one still-bored but victorious player group, and one pissed off target. Having to hit Dscan and check local every 30 seconds for hours isn’t “introducing excitement”, nor is having to scout all the local systems before setting up, or creating 4 safe spots around the system, or needing to park a second account nearby with some method to help you escape. It’s turning leisure time game play into an unpaid job with a long checklist, which CCP _knows_ players will stop doing because it’s time-consuming busywork. So they know many players will get bored, stop paying attention, and then become prey. _The victim process is built in._ Because CCP can’t imagine how to make _actually engaging_ PvP between combat parties more viable… so from day one, “eating the sleepy sheep” has been a big part of EVE design. The danger, competitiveness and comparative freedom from rules is one of the few things EVE has as an attraction. Because let’s face it: PvE, PvP, the interface and game design are all pretty meh compared to better developed games. So EVE/CCP needs to _keep_ this danger, but _improve_ on it and make it better, more accessible, more rewarding for more players to participate in. Finding ever new ways to justify blowing up weak/bored/inattentive players and calling it ‘content’ is part of the problem - not the solution. EVE is literally **65% boring drudgery** with about 20% interesting activity and 15% danger/excitement. And that’s why the PCU is dropping. Not because “space victims” are forcing CCP to bow to their will. The PvP community has always complained and demanded just as much from CCP as any other group of whiners. Complaints from various small portions of the player base aren’t the issue. **Bad game design is.** If you want some _useful_ viewpoints on how EVE’s _game design_ is destroying the game, go check @Dunk_Dinkle 's blog link: > [@The State of EVE - Summer 2022](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-state-of-eve-summer-2022/373267): > > [The State of EVE - Summer 2022](https://dunkdinkle.com/the-state-of-eve-online-summer-2022/) (Of course, since it levels valid criticisms rather than blaming “bad player attitudes”, some Karens complained and got it moved into the dead zone. Can’t be having actual discussion of real flaws in General!) --- _[View the full topic](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/players-as-content-and-the-victim-mindset/373239)._