# Please reduce old nerf on T3 Cruiser & Heavy Assault Cruiser signature reduction **URL:** \ **Category:** PvP Ships & Modules\ **Created:** [November 18, 2024, 10:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-reduce-old-nerf-on-t3-cruiser-heavy-assault-cruiser-signature-reduction/468530 "2024-11-18T22:44:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Akiriy\_Azuriko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/akiriy_azuriko/32/435461_2.png) [@Akiriy\_Azuriko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Akiriy_Azuriko)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 10:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-reduce-old-nerf-on-t3-cruiser-heavy-assault-cruiser-signature-reduction/468530/1 "2024-11-18T22:44:36Z")
Marauders are still over-tuned, and still have no clear threat. revive their original nemesis T3 Cruiser Signature tanking & Heavy Assault Cruiser MWD Signature Reduction. or reduce their tracking speed so smaller ships have a chance to get in range to tackle them before turning to dust. Amen. _Jaded Bitter Vet Remembering the good old days._ ps: Large projectiles are broken ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 10:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-reduce-old-nerf-on-t3-cruiser-heavy-assault-cruiser-signature-reduction/468530/2 "2024-11-20T10:59:15Z")
> [@Akiriy\_Azuriko](#): > > Marauders are still over-tuned, and still have no clear threat. Why would they have a 1V1 threat when their base hull is 3 times more expensive than T2 BC ? I agree that HACS should have their sig bloom reduction again. Mainly because ADC has been nerfed so much that it’s rarely relied on now, signature bloom reduction (SBR) + ADC is no more a potential unbalance. Maybe tone it down a bit. I have no clear idea of what the balanced numbers would be, but I agree that HACs are supposed to be able to catch a dangerous threat, and therefore the SBR allows to approach it, while the ADC allows to stick it. AFAIK the SBR had been removed because they became too strong in fleet at range. As I already said in other posts, just remove the gun range bonus from T2 ships. IIRC it’s already been done for some HACs/guns, keep it for the rest so that T2 ships are not used for fleet long range. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 4:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-reduce-old-nerf-on-t3-cruiser-heavy-assault-cruiser-signature-reduction/468530/3 "2024-11-20T16:43:23Z")
> [@](#): > > I agree that HACS should have their sig bloom reduction again. Mainly because ADC has been nerfed so much that it’s rarely relied on now, signature bloom reduction (SBR) + ADC is no more a potential unbalance. This is fairly reasonable. It would certainly make HAC more interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Boags](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/boags/32/382554_2.png) [@Boags](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Boags)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 7:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-reduce-old-nerf-on-t3-cruiser-heavy-assault-cruiser-signature-reduction/468530/4 "2024-11-20T19:17:24Z")
Right now its looking like navy ships are the go to thing. But SBR is before my time. But hacs do need a buff of some kind. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 8:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-reduce-old-nerf-on-t3-cruiser-heavy-assault-cruiser-signature-reduction/468530/5 "2024-11-20T20:24:27Z")
IMO that’s what navy fleet are for : better fleet stats, so like more alpha (that’s just ONE use) and/or more tank and/or more projection and/or more speed/agility. And, IMO again (I repeat because other wise some people will say it’s just my opinion : I know) T2 ships would be more emphasized on one aspect that T1/fleet don’t really focus on, like long-range ewar, or bubbles, or heavy tackle. That last part requiring either good approach survivability for hard scram or mid-range survivability for hard points, both being enhanced by ADC. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2024, 12:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-reduce-old-nerf-on-t3-cruiser-heavy-assault-cruiser-signature-reduction/468530/6 "2024-11-21T12:07:42Z")
For the sake of streamlining the game and having as few exceptions as possible, I agree with the suggestion that Heavy Assault Cruisers should get the same Role Bonus to MWD Signature Increase as Assault Frigates have. It is easier for the players (especially new players) to learn and recognize that any “Assault” ship has these two boni (can use Assault Damage Controls + MWD Sig reduction) and it makes HACs the tool of choice when high damage/tracking ships need to be approached and pinned down. For the same reason, the Propulsion-Subsystems for Tengu and Proteus should be changed, so they both also get the “Wake Limiter” Option that Loki and Legion already have (+AB speed, -MWD Sig). I also agree that the T3 base signature should be reduced, by at least 10%-15%. The current values are simply too high for a Cruiser, especially when sig-penalties from some Subsystems come on top. ---
**Author:** ![Akiriy\_Azuriko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/akiriy_azuriko/32/435461_2.png) [@Akiriy\_Azuriko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Akiriy_Azuriko)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2024, 8:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-reduce-old-nerf-on-t3-cruiser-heavy-assault-cruiser-signature-reduction/468530/7 "2024-11-23T08:55:35Z")
### TL;DR: The user argues that the **Tech 3 Cruisers (T3Cs)** were unfairly nerfed during the 2017 rework, removing their role as **close-range, armor, signature-tanking specialists** , leaving a void in the meta that HACs (Heavy Assault Cruisers) have failed to fill effectively. Key points: 1. **HACs’ Flaws in Fleet Roles** : While the Assault Damage Control (ADC) is often praised, it provides only a short burst of survivability (15 seconds), which is insufficient in extended fleet engagements. Resistances and buffer, not ADCs, are what truly save ships in prolonged combat. 2. **Lost Role for T3Cs** : Pre-rework, T3Cs excelled in signature tanking, countering battleship-sized guns with agility and reduced signature radius. The rework removed this niche without offering a proper replacement, and the void remains unaddressed. 3. **HAC Buffs vs. T3C Nerfs** : The balance shift between HACs and T3Cs led to a meta dominated by HACs without the depth or flexibility T3Cs once provided. 4. **Marauder Dominance** : In contrast to T3Cs, Marauders lack a meaningful counter in large-scale PvP due to their extreme application, tank, and resist profile. They now outshine specialized PvP doctrines, which creates imbalance. 5. **Meta History** : While T3Cs disrupted null-sec meta at their peak, they had clear counters (webs and neuts) and required skill and specialization to utilize. The current PvP ecosystem lacks similar checks for dominant ships like Marauders. The core argument is that reworking T3Cs with a focus on their original role— **close-range armor and signature tanking specialists** —would improve fleet diversity and meta health, filling the gap left by their nerf and HACs’ underperformance in that role. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2024, 11:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-reduce-old-nerf-on-t3-cruiser-heavy-assault-cruiser-signature-reduction/468530/8 "2024-11-23T11:23:24Z")
> [@Akiriy\_Azuriko](#): > > and required skill and specialization to utilize. The current PvP ecosystem lacks similar checks for dominant ships like Marauders. That’s plain wrong. Marauders requires skills and specialization too. More than a T3C. If you are actually referring to SP loss on T3C loss, good riddance. it barely became an ISK cost with the arrival of injectors. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 10:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-reduce-old-nerf-on-t3-cruiser-heavy-assault-cruiser-signature-reduction/468530/9 "2024-11-28T10:50:50Z")
> **[Patch Notes - Version 22.02 | EVE Online](https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/patch-notes-version-22-02#h2-2)** > > Patch Notes released on 27 November are now available! > Heavy Assault Cruisers > > ``` > 50% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty Role Bonus added back > > ``` \o/ ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 11:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-reduce-old-nerf-on-t3-cruiser-heavy-assault-cruiser-signature-reduction/468530/10 "2024-11-28T23:54:36Z")
^ Yeah, so does this address the issue? ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2024, 12:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-reduce-old-nerf-on-t3-cruiser-heavy-assault-cruiser-signature-reduction/468530/11 "2024-11-29T00:04:04Z")
HACs now have the same bonus as AF (50% SBR). I don’t think T3 have been changed, but I’m not sure they need it (people with usage of fleet T3C could tell if it’s needed) . ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2024, 12:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-reduce-old-nerf-on-t3-cruiser-heavy-assault-cruiser-signature-reduction/468530/12 "2024-11-29T00:05:33Z")
Other than the Marauder nerfs, I’ve been enjoying these “mini” balance passes. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2025, 12:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-reduce-old-nerf-on-t3-cruiser-heavy-assault-cruiser-signature-reduction/468530/13 "2025-02-27T00:05:45Z")
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