# Please stop the nonsense about inflation **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 14, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917 "2019-09-14T19:54:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 12:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/213 "2019-10-20T12:14:23Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Deflation is bad because it can lead to a collapse in consumption spending which in turn leads to a collapse of the economy this is a video game it is not real life there is no recession or deflationary spiral in this game i know you like showing off how much you learned about economics but if you wanna look smart you need to stop applying economic principles to irrelevant situations > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Okay fine, then STFU about an increasing money supply and inflation because you dipshits are making the same goddamn argument. You are looking at real world events and data and history and extrapolating to the game. um that is what you are doing and it doesnt apply in the slightest reading your post seems obvious you don’t even know why recessions exist or why you cant apply boom and bust economics to eve ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 12:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/214 "2019-10-20T12:28:27Z")
> [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > I quit playing Good riddance. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 12:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/215 "2019-10-20T12:46:36Z")
hes not a rl economist tbh just a guy who went to school and didnt fully understand what he learned ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 7:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/217 "2019-10-21T07:10:14Z")
> [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > I always found success in doing things that real world economists would never think of, try to do or even believe themselves would work in any way they can understand based on their preconceptions as to how an economy should operate in a simulated gaming environment. > > I am not an economist either, I started with an empty cup and only learned from what works and what doesn’t work despite what any amount of people or information told me otherwise. > > Who knows, maybe I am just extremely lucky to become one of those players who can fool around and waste money without caring about profit or success just for a bit of fun and excitement to see what happens trying to play with things no smart economist would ever attempt themselves. You truly are the greatest EvE player of all time. There can be no doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 7:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/218 "2019-10-21T07:28:04Z")
> [@Gowabear post:217](#): > > I always found success in doing things that real world economists would never think of, Wow, that’s just truly amazing. ---
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/220 "2019-10-27T20:08:19Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > And there is not f–king inflation. Not when the money supply is shrinking and every index in the game if f–ing going down. > > Seriously…what in the f\*\*k? Your reading-comprehension ability is poor. I didn’t dispute (at least in anything you wrote that I responded to) that the money supply is or isn’t growing, shrinking, or doing anything else. I said the issue is a SYSTEM in the first place which allows money supply to grow, shrink, or do anything else, out of pure fiat. I’d bet everything I own that your beloved Milton Friedman you quote (and since you are into name-dropping, my economist friend was on first name basis with him) would agree with me here. I know for a fact that he wasn’t for a SYSTEM which would allow for creation or destruction of money supply willy-nilly. He did not support the existence of the Federal Reserve. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 11:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/221 "2019-10-28T11:52:59Z")
For the last few weeks there’s an uptick in buys of PLEX by roughly one million per week. One million. That sounds like a lot! Yet the price of PLEX barely moves upwards. @Teckos_Pech What does it mean? ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 5:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/222 "2019-10-30T05:51:20Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Except making t1 ships, including barges, takes very little time investment and everyone can do it. When people can’t make money on it you expect everyone to make their own? You don’t see that as bad? That is the very definition of autarky and it means everyone is space poor like ■■■■. Really space poor. Specialization is one of the things that makes us all rich. > [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > My serious response with more questions… did you read past the first sentence of my comments? Have you even been playing eve since July? Do you understand why the collapse happened? Yes, I do. And I’ve been playing a Hell of quite a bit longer than you. > [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > Even with the collapse that has been continuous in these past months the game is still better off now than it was when I started playing years ago. Really? Prices are declining, production is declining the money supply is declining. There is every single hallmark of a recession in game and yet it is better? > [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > In my opinion inflation has simply been reversed what was getting out of hand over the better part of this last year and the market is more stable now than it has been for awhile even before blackout it just takes time for the game to recover what has been going on for the past 4-5 months with blackout and players reaction to it. For the first time in awhile I am actually sitting back laughing how good the market and trading is operating right now. This marks you are an economic ignoramus. Sure there was mild inflation in game. But mild inflation is not a problem. Even mild deflation is not a problem. This isn’t mild. The deflation is about 2x the prior inflation rate. Hopefully things will look better in the next MER, if not…well that’s bad. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > this is a video game it is not real life > there is no recession or deflationary spiral in this game Go look at production. It is trending down. Production decreasing like that has another name: Recession. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > i know you like showing off how much you learned about economics but if you wanna look smart you need to stop applying economic principles to irrelevant situations IRL when the money supply collapses, we get deflation. Looking at the in game price indices we see…deflation. We also see production dropping. We see transactions decreasing. So far, real life and the game are working together. Oh and I find it amusing…you do know you can never say “supply and demand” ever again for anything in game, right? > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > m that is what you are doing and it doesnt apply in the slightest > reading your post seems obvious you don’t even know why recessions exist or why you cant apply boom and bust economics to eve Really? People do not argue that ratting and ISK creation that is too high leads to inflation? The Devs sure know this which is why they nerfed carriers and supers in terms of ratting a few years ago. > [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > I said the issue is a SYSTEM in the first place which allows money supply to grow, shrink, or do anything else, out of pure fiat. _sigh_ Man I feel like I’m trying to hold back a tide of stupid here. The ISK supply in EVE is not governed by fiat. If it were CCP would be in total control of the ISK supply and they aren’t. The ISK supply depends on people killing rats (predominantly). It is actually not a bad system in that it is somewhat similar to commodity based currencies. I’ll explain…_again_. With a commodity backed currency like gold suppose a mine plays out. The amount of gold entering the economy drops and the money supply shrinks. There is deflation which makes going out and finding a new mine more and more profitable as the money supply shrinks. If a very productive mine is discovered then the amount of gold entering the economy increases and we have inflation and mines that were marginal before the discovery now become uneconomical and they shut down. Thus, the money supply is largely self regulating. The same is to some extent true with ISK. Suppose CCP changes a ship and it becomes more efficient at generating ISK. Those players who were just indifferent between ratting and doing something else (in game or out) stop. If CCP nerfs a ship then ratting becomes more attractive for those who did not value ISK creation prior to the change. That is, players trade IRL time for ISK. So was inflation out of control in game? No, not really. Again look at the price indices. None of them showed a major problem with inflation. > [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > For the last few weeks there’s an uptick in buys of PLEX by roughly one million per week. > > One million. That sounds like a lot! Yet the price of PLEX barely moves upwards. > > @Teckos_Pech > > What does it mean? IDK, in looking at the data for Jita it looks like the amount bought has been declining. Since August 30 the quantity has been decreasing for a number of months… Scary scenario, a number of super rich players are now playing via PLEX vs. subscriptions as they don’t want to sink RL money into a game they think is having some serious problems. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 6:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/223 "2019-10-30T06:00:45Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > When people can’t make money on it you expect everyone to make their own? When people need the ship i expect them to acquire one. Either by buying or making, whichever is easiest for them. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > and it means everyone is space poor Space poor **er**. As in relative to today. And many of us, especially vets, can afford to lose some wealth. But it’s very hard to actually become broke in this game as i explained above. Meanwhile new players running pve with cash payouts in highsec (missions) will actually ‘catch up’ with older players wealth wise, or at least have the best chance they’ve ever had in years to close the gap. Again, i don’t see this as a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 6:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/225 "2019-10-30T06:01:50Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > When people need the ship i expect them to acquire one. Either by buying or making, whichever is easiest for them. Or they just give up and move on to greener pastures. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Space poor **er**. As in relative to today. And many of us, especially vets, can afford to lose some wealth. But it’s very hard to actually become broke in this game as i explained above. A game where players become progressively space poor is not sustainable. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 6:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/226 "2019-10-30T06:03:13Z")
Let me try it this way, when your venture becomes to valuable to put into space you’ve broken the ■■■■■■■ game. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 6:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/227 "2019-10-30T06:04:25Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Or they just give up and move on to greener pastures. Adapt or gtfo. No? > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > A game where players become progressively space poor is not sustainable. Again, it’s very hard to go broke in this game. A new equilibrium will be found. Edit- That’d be the ventures you get for free from the tutorial? and can build with literally minutes of mining? ---
**Author:** ![Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abruzzi_oskold/32/279259_2.png) [@Abruzzi\_Oskold](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abruzzi_Oskold)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 6:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/228 "2019-10-30T06:21:34Z")
Sorry to hear we are collectively too stupid to understand the OP’s genius. Note: I have to say the title of this thread was a bit prophetic. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 8:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/229 "2019-10-30T08:50:36Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > IDK, in looking at the data for Jita it looks like the amount bought has been declining. I don’t understand. The amount bought every month has been increasing according to adam4eve? ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/f/a/fa544d1a69b4eefc264be02182d66356046e653b.png) The red one is buy (order?) volume. Green is sales. You mean the overall amount of PLEX is decreasing? Blue is ESI traded volume, whatever that means. [https://www.adam4eve.eu/commodity.php?typeID=44992](https://www.adam4eve.eu/commodity.php?typeID=44992) If this was an upward pressure the price would be rising much faster, no? So what does this mean? Btw, it appears that people don’t understand your analogies or metaphors. Seems they take them too literally, like your venture comment. That’s frustrating. You’re saying that when even a venture has a high value, no one will undock it anymore. Try a more directly worded approach with less “images”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 11:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/230 "2019-10-30T11:23:59Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > > situations > > IRL when the money supply collapses, we get deflation. Looking at the in game price indices we see…deflation. We also see production dropping. We see transactions decreasing. So far, real life and the game are working together. But IRL we are never looking at the population halving alongside these effects. Normally we see a growing population. So I think we need to adjust to a per capita basis for a number of these factors to see if individual production is dropping or actually growing. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 1:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/231 "2019-10-30T13:25:22Z")
> [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > You’re saying that when even a venture has a high value, no one will undock it anymore. It **is** confusing. On the one hand things are losing isk value (money supply going down). But ventures (or other ships) are going to become extremely rare and valuable according to Teckos\_Pech? And whilst these ships are valuable and rare, gankers are going to be nuking people as soon as they undock because they can afford to do so? Do gankers have ships on tap whilst everyone else doesn’t? At the end of the day, the cost of making ships is time, and that wont change. And we will always need ships, whether we trade for them or make them ourselves. There will never be a shortage of ships that are easy to build with resources from high sec (tech 1 and especially ventures). Even noobs can run a few missions, buy a blueprint, mine for literally a few minutes and build a frigate. Scale this up for dessies, cruisers etc but the required factor is **time** which is **not** changing. That’s where i think Teckos\_Pech is going wrong. He’s comparing the game to the great depression, but the average american household could not make their own cars with materials found in their back yard. In eve we can. ---
**Author:** ![Punctator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/punctator/32/357072_2.png) [@Punctator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Punctator)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 1:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/232 "2019-10-30T13:41:52Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Do gankers have ships on tap whilst everyone else doesn’t? it is main problem. There are people with infinite isk supply from old times (moons) and todays too - large scale plex speculation for example. All this trade citadels in hisec - lets say someone dont like main powerblock and want to put 80k usd to make war, so hi buy tones of plexys and sell it in… trade hub makeing rich some of his enemys. eve is dead because of ccp and stupidy this developer is, and notheing will change here ever. future of eve was decided long ago, and winners was decided too. So this all hisec ganking is stalking players outside of the system, so you can see even venture on suicide kilmails. It is not about isk anymore. You have only one choise to join the winners powerblocks. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/233 "2019-10-30T13:45:09Z")
Isn’t it fun reading posts of some random fanatics with no clue? Man, so fun! ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 2:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/234 "2019-10-30T14:30:11Z")
God forbid, if there were a war between those with infinite isk supply… it would never end! Titans for DAYS! ---
**Author:** ![Ahari\_Chent-Shi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ahari_chent-shi/32/249476_2.png) [@Ahari\_Chent-Shi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ahari_Chent-Shi)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 3:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/235 "2019-10-30T15:30:58Z")
Alliances walled up behind fleets of supers as far as the eye can see! Wait… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917.md?page=12)